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The dangers of "Auto-Pilot"

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
9,561
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Rune: "Okay, what stage will I not regret the most?"
Rune: *Picks Yoshi's Island*
Rune: "I have my doubts"
Vyse: "This is Diddy Kong we're talking about"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MD9TGknNE

:laugh:

I have more matches to upload, but I said before that I'd upload this one.

The video suffers from NL syndrome. As in, I'm playing against an opponent that doesn't really know what to do, thus I think I'm good at this game.

But really, I'm not.

*Btw, this is nothing against you NinjaLink, but I'm sure you know that*

As I play Diddy, I'm reminded of my Melee main, Falco, and what is known as 'Auto-pilot'. The thing with Diddy is, it's hard to resist the temptation of simply chaining glide tosses together without really thinking about it.

Against alot of players, this is great. Many many people have no idea how to handle banana play, and this works in our advantage. Players tend to get overwhelmed, they lose control of the match, and it becomes this nightmarish situation where Diddy has complete control, and there's crap all that they can do about it aside from getting the odd hit in.

However, once you play a patient player, or a player that figures you out, you're going to get owned if you stay in 'auto-pilot'.

I realised this from a recent meet I went to. My friend Sirias is, in my opinion, an incredible player. He was able to read me like an open book.

His Ike bested my Diddy TWICE. Twice I lost to an Ike! I couldn't believe what was happening. I was playing particularly well that day, made my crew mate 'Accelerate' go through a roster of characters until finally he had to fall back onto his ROB to 'only just' beat me.

Then here comes Sirias, who's opinion of himself does not do justice to his ability to play, and beats me twice with Ike.

Now I mean no offence to Ike mains, but you can see what I mean.

After those matches, I took a good, long few moments to figure out where I had went wrong, and Sirias was the one to tell me that I was too predictable. So the dilemma arises, am I simply too predictable? Perhaps I am. In this regard, Falco in Melee is played by some in a similar manner. Throwing out pressure combos, hoping to crack the opponent, instead of reading the opponent, and forcing them into a situation to make your advantage.

So then arises the issues of 'Reactive' and 'Proactive' play.

As I understand it, reactive play is reading the opponent, and reacting to put yourself into advantageous positions. It is almost the complete opposite of Diddy's trademark pressure play. However, it is not without merit, as you'll understand that being able to react in such a way as to play a very safe game will be beneficial, provided that you are able to outplay the opponent.

I can play like this with characters like Marth, who is exceptionally good when played with a 'reactive' play style.

However, I believe that the best kind of Diddy Kong (And best kind of player) will play 'Proactively'. The proactive player will seek to create these advantageous situations themselves, and these types of players, are those like Azen and M2K.

Proactive Diddy's will use their bananas, amongst other things, to force the opponent into a position that is good for you and bad for them. And, naturally, we all try to play like this. All the Diddy's here play like this (I think). And this is where 'auto-piloting' fits into place.

Pro-active play is smart play. Alot of the time I'm like 'whee, my bananas are like, hitting you and stuff, combo combo combo, I win!' and half the time I'm not really thinking about it as much as I should.

So I guess my point is this:

'Smart banana play is good banana play, don't just glide toss those bananas because you can, and hope for the best'


But then, I'm sure alot of you will say that you knew this already. I just really felt like posting my own conclusions somewhere after that last meet. I'm always the first to say 'I might be wrong, and I probably am' so if you have a different opinion, I want to hear it. My knowledge of reactive and proactive play are courtesy of Mookie's 'Playing to Learn' thread.

And anyway, if you do know this, it doesn't hurt to be reminded :)
 

Nicktendo

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
946
Location
San Diego, CA
This is a really good post for us Diddy players and I totally agree with what you said. I found myself doing the same thing, the same thing happening and the same change to my playstyle happen.

Before I would mindless spam bannanas and hope for the best, but now Ive been working on what you said and its defintely an improvement :]
 

Vall3y

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
1,619
Location
Israel
yup, good post there
auto pilot in competitive games works only if the opponent cant overcome the technical obstacle, but it will get you no where if you want to become good
this especially applies to diddy's bananas which are so rewarding and fancy against lesser players and unexperienced players, but become a threat to you just as much to him when used mindlessly
 

~^.NoiR.^~

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
913
Location
Grayson, GA
"However, once you play a patient player, or a player that figures you out, you're going to get owned if you stay in 'auto-pilot'. "

I agree fully. That's my problem when I'm tired or people are talking to me. I was like that last sat at the tournament and it lost me 70 bucks.
 

Count

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,454
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Great post as said above. I do this way too often when I play online, which is why I lose more 2-1 matches then many players. Often times I will win the first match and then lose two in a row. The majority of players on these boards are better than me, but I can hold my own (my win percentage is like .400 on gamebattles), but I would win way more matches if I would just keep this in mind. Often times I can wreck somebody glide tossing mindlessly all match, they make adjustments going into the next match and I am too stubborn to change my ways. I think diddy players have more of a problem with this than any other type of player, because glide tossing can be addicting, as silly as that may sound.
 

Nokon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
91
i wouldn't call this a good representation of PT but meh.

I autopilot alot :/ it's something I need to stop
 

BrawlBro

Smash Ace
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Mar 19, 2008
Messages
770
Location
michigan
great post vyse, it is dangerous to just mindlessly glide toss nannerz everywhere but at the same time diddy is a very proactive character. The key is to make sure your actually tossing those nannerz when theres actually an opening, not just every chance you can get to do so (most diddys)
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
Nokon I like that pumpkin thing for some reason...

Dribbling can really act as a wavedash sometimes (just a bit) and it is definitely different then what your opponent would expect after having nanerz thrown at them.
 

jyuuberu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
240
Location
Culvah baybee
Good summary. I play falcos a lot. My brother and one of my friends main him very well. It's hard to just toss out banana after banana and not get punished by a shine. So I end up tossing up, tossing down or just holding till I can get a trip for sure.
 

Nokon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
91
Nokon I like that pumpkin thing for some reason...

Dribbling can really act as a wavedash sometimes (just a bit) and it is definitely different then what your opponent would expect after having nanerz thrown at them.
Thankie.

Does he play PT alot?
 

phate

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
159
Location
Dacula, GA
This is a well-thought out concept, however I don't think anyone needed it spelled out to them. It is when we become to confident in pressuring our opponent that this "Auto-Pilot" situation happens. Also it goes way further than banana play. Brawl has more ways to counter edgegaurding, approaches and etc. than melee so we must never become predictable enough to have our opponents turn the tide of the match in their favor. The reason it may come as a surprise to some players is that their particular character has strategies that are very difficult to counter, much like diddy's approaches.
 

pastaboy

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,231
Location
st catharines, ontario
This is a very good topic. My friend iwalks instead of running, hes patient patient when he plays me and can catch my bananas 80% of the time i throw them and end up screwing myself over. I think the more veriety of characters you get play against the more likely you will learn to "think before you act" for all situations.
 

saberhof

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
3,405
Location
Mexico-Tijuana
OH my god, i have this situation lots of times man, i just realized it a couple of days ago, i cant resist charging in with a glide toss, its just too good if it lands...i guess its time for a change...
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
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cg, MN
so what is the best way to use nanners? Wait for openings? I cant think of it. This is why my diddy fails. Everyone I play has finally learned to just wait and catch the nanners, and now I cant figure out how to fix the ****ing situation. I'm so used to just glide tossing every time I grab a **** banana.
 

DFEAR

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its like in super autopilot with MK. meaning when i downgrab i immediately upb. or spotdodge downsmash (thinking im rob lol) or when holding the edge fastfall into shuttle loop into a lagless dsmash or spam tornado xD. it became very predictible and wanted something more to expand with. and then theres diddy. versatility. you can do many things cause he has projectiles just mixing it up and being precise at the same time becomes a difficulty. yes u can goto into autopilot mode cause u see the opportunity rise but hell if it works at the moment dont hesistate to do it then see when the moment rises again try mixing it up. but seriously automode really sux it costs people matches. and im proud of u vyse :3
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
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Uuuuh, okay?
:)

Also, I made the video private cause it's really old and dumb and doesn't really add anything. Just imagine a Diddy owning a Pokemon Trainer for 3 minutes straight.
 

cornxnuts

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
103
Location
SUNY Binghamton / Suffolk County, New York
I find that while playing with diddy, if im "auto-piloting" and doing fine then I have no reason to change. But if I'm doing poorly, rather than change my strategy, I just try to do it even more/quicker. I suppose I subconsciously think that by putting more of the same pressure on the opponent, it will succeed. If only there was some way to remind myself "Hey douchebag, stop repeating yourself and be original/creative"
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
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Messages
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I find that while playing with diddy, if im "auto-piloting" and doing fine then I have no reason to change. But if I'm doing poorly, rather than change my strategy, I just try to do it even more/quicker. I suppose I subconsciously think that by putting more of the same pressure on the opponent, it will succeed. If only there was some way to remind myself "Hey douchebag, stop repeating yourself and be original/creative"
thats what gets in my mind too sometimes. i try to actually stop the whole momentum of the match and just think for a moment and think what i can do next o-< mindgames ftw?
 

CrAzYdRuNk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
35
Location
Washington State
I have to much fun to 'auto-pilot'. Just glide-tossing or things like that bores me, and so I always try to mix things up, use different strategies, etc. All because I'm just having fun. Seriously, if you go into auto-pilot your not having enough fun.
 

Esca

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
2,734
Location
Beaumont, Texas
I've found a really really good strategy with Diddy this weekend, while playing with Jerm, and Gnes.

So, start out the match and be really grab happy. Grab lots lots lots. Read them and punish with grab. After the first stock, just keep on grabbin', but every once in a while, throw in a dash attack > whatever. When the 3rd stock begins, go crazy as hell. They're so used to you punishing with grabs that they'll spot-dodge, so go insane. Charge smashes, do whatever, because at this point, they will fall for anything. It's the most insane strategy, because it messes with their head SO much.

Discuss?
 

Jokes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
53
Location
Florida
good read, but this doesnnt apply to me. Hell, im pretty bad at glide tossing anyways... meh i suck as diddy :(
Paladin, if you're aiming to get good with Diddy, just sit down and play with him a little bit. After awhile, it should come naturally if you speed your hands and your brain up. Take 10 minutes to learn how to GT forward. Then, get on to harder stuff, like Down B - Z catch/Instant Throw. Just watch videos and start researching your own technique. You'll be better in no time. :p
 

win_ftw

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
44
Location
the beach
yer, auto pilot sucks when you play a lot with people worse than you, cause theyll start reading you, and that makes up for skill. mindgames lol.


escas strategy, grab happy, is pretty funny sometimes.
 

6Mizu

Smash Champion
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Somewhere in the SubspaceEmissary(NC, Morrisville)
umm....you prolly want to put questions on the Q&A thread...knowing that Diddy boards..is sorta lazy & inactive.
But.....Insta throw?
Oh..well......Air-doge (to pick up an item)....and as soon as you air-dodge.....flick the C-stick in the direction you want to throw the item.
This will cancel you air-dodge...and throw the item you picked up (during you air-dodge).
 

mb?

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
317
Location
lancaster,sc
umm....you prolly want to put questions on the Q&A thread...knowing that Diddy boards..is sorta lazy & inactive.
But.....Insta throw?
Oh..well......Air-doge (to pick up an item)....and as soon as you air-dodge.....flick the C-stick in the direction you want to throw the item.
This will cancel you air-dodge...and throw the item you picked up (during you air-dodge).

i think its easer to use A and air dodge to insta tos
 

sai_:)

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
826
Since this thread got bumped (and it deserves to be), anyone have tips on stopping auto piloting?

because even though i know about it and that its terrible, at times i just zone out and that auto pilot muscle memory just kicks in. I may remember mid match like "holy **** im getting punished for that wtf am i doing?" but i still have trouble not doing it initially.

halp?
 
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