HenryXLII
Smash Journeyman
In the time I have played Byleth I have found the character to be incredibly underwhelming, and more importantly, I think they just are not fun to play. Their entire moveset has about as much synergy as inviting all three house leaders to dinner. There could be something there, but I just don't think it works.
I know it is very early to judge a character's viability. Perhaps Byleth mains will make discoveries that truly push the character. Regardless of that, I am making this thread because I think Byleth's kit has a ton of wasted potential. It could be something better, something more fun to play, and something more accessible. I want this character to have a solid identity.
In order to buff Byleth, we need to break down what the character has going for them along with how we can expand on those aspects. We also need to look at the character's weaknesses so we know what needs to be toned down, and what needs to stay by design.
Strengths
-Explosive Kill Potential
-Incredible Range
-Excellent Ledge Trapping Game
- Great Juggling Tools
-Amazing Shield Damage
Weaknesses
-Cannot Zone Against Shields
-No Grab Game
-Horrendous Mobility
-Terrible Recovery
-Weak Disadvantage State
-Loses to projectiles
-Loses to rushdown.
Buff 1: Improve Byleth's Air Mobility: The most obvious buff would be to simply make Byleth faster. While I think this buff is unlikely (we have yet to get a character speed adjustment in this game) I do think it could be done while keeping the core design philosophy in mind.
By improving Byleth's air mobility without touching their ground mobility, you give Byleth the most important tool they need to function as a zoner, the ability to position themselves. The character becomes mobile in the air, but being in the air is incredibly unsafe for them. As a result, Byleth players would have to choose when to travel by air, and when to stand their ground.
This would also improve Byleth's recovery, juggling, and disadvantage state without breaking any of these aspects. Their airspeed should not be absurd, but at the very least slightly above average, perhaps around Lucina's speed.
Buff 2: Make Side Smash and Grounded Side Special Safer On Shield: Byleth is designed to be a zoner with long ranged pokes, but in order to actually poke the opponent, Byleth has to put themselves at risk which goes against the entire point of poking. Grant it, these pokes are incredibly powerful, but Byleth should not be punished for proper spacing.
There are two options to buff these moves. Ether increasing the amount of shield stun dealt by the tip, or reducing the end lag of the moves.
For Side Smash, reducing the endlag could be risky, as it would make the move much more spammable. We don't want Byleth throwing this move out at every given moment not even fearing whiffs. So, I propose increasing the amount of shield stun the tip deals instead. That way Byleth can return to neutral upon spacing the move properly, instead of fearing a punish.
For Side Special, I think the grounded version should have less endlag, as it is a high commitment option that is currently outclassed by the aerial version on the move. there simply is not much reason to ever go for the grounded version in it's current state.
By making this change, Byleth is given a choice. Ether go for the move in the air for more range and utility at the risk of being punished easier, or go for the safer grounded version with much more limited range and less utility. Even with reduced endlag, it should be possible to still punish Byleth if the sourspot is blocked, or if the move is sidestepped.
The last change to this move is merely aesthetic. Make the tipper of the spear have Marth's tipper effect, as the current version of the move does not feel satisfying to land.
Buff 3: Give Neutral Special More Durability, Reduce the Charge of Tier 2: Byleth currently has one of the most clunky projectiles in the game, though contrary to popular belief, I think tier 1 of the Bow isn't that bad. It has kill potential, deals good shield damage, and can be great for tech chasing.
The long windup does make the move committal though, and a move with this much commitment should not lose to any small projectile that crosses it's path. Added more durability to the arrow would make it a reasonable option against projectile zoners.
As for Tier 2, this move is sadly terrible. Yes it deals amazing shield damage, but your opponent will only get hit by it if they are panicking. In the moves current state, It can be reacted to around the the point it is half charged. The opponent can then get out of the way, think of 55 different ways to punish Byleth, and then punish.
I think reducing the start up to that halfway charge point would make the move still fairly easy to avoid, but would give clever Byleth players a chance to set up traps with it.
Buff 4: Make Backthrow Kill at the Ledge: This is a simple one. It does not even have to be that powerful, but it should be killing around 140%. The character would still struggle with grabs, but would become just that much more dangerous in the corner, where Byleth is already pretty decent.
Buff 5: Increase the Bounce on Up Special's Spike: Up B is designed to be a move that is more powerful at later percents, and has the potential to be an incredibly unique combo tool. With it's current design however, the move has the opposite effect, as the spike put Byleth above their opponent, which is a terrible position for them.
The spike should at the very least put Byleth and their opponent at the same height, and should bounce the foe above Byleth once above 100%, killing at around 130-140%. This would provide Byleth with an incredibly flashy way to end a stock, and would actually reward them for landing a fairly limited command grab.
Buff 6: Give Byleth a Tea Time Taunt: Seriously Nintendo WTF.
That concludes my list. Feel free to let me know if you disagree with any changes, or have your own changes in mind.
I know it is very early to judge a character's viability. Perhaps Byleth mains will make discoveries that truly push the character. Regardless of that, I am making this thread because I think Byleth's kit has a ton of wasted potential. It could be something better, something more fun to play, and something more accessible. I want this character to have a solid identity.
In order to buff Byleth, we need to break down what the character has going for them along with how we can expand on those aspects. We also need to look at the character's weaknesses so we know what needs to be toned down, and what needs to stay by design.
Strengths
-Explosive Kill Potential
-Incredible Range
-Excellent Ledge Trapping Game
- Great Juggling Tools
-Amazing Shield Damage
Weaknesses
-Cannot Zone Against Shields
-No Grab Game
-Horrendous Mobility
-Terrible Recovery
-Weak Disadvantage State
-Loses to projectiles
-Loses to rushdown.
Buff 1: Improve Byleth's Air Mobility: The most obvious buff would be to simply make Byleth faster. While I think this buff is unlikely (we have yet to get a character speed adjustment in this game) I do think it could be done while keeping the core design philosophy in mind.
By improving Byleth's air mobility without touching their ground mobility, you give Byleth the most important tool they need to function as a zoner, the ability to position themselves. The character becomes mobile in the air, but being in the air is incredibly unsafe for them. As a result, Byleth players would have to choose when to travel by air, and when to stand their ground.
This would also improve Byleth's recovery, juggling, and disadvantage state without breaking any of these aspects. Their airspeed should not be absurd, but at the very least slightly above average, perhaps around Lucina's speed.
Buff 2: Make Side Smash and Grounded Side Special Safer On Shield: Byleth is designed to be a zoner with long ranged pokes, but in order to actually poke the opponent, Byleth has to put themselves at risk which goes against the entire point of poking. Grant it, these pokes are incredibly powerful, but Byleth should not be punished for proper spacing.
There are two options to buff these moves. Ether increasing the amount of shield stun dealt by the tip, or reducing the end lag of the moves.
For Side Smash, reducing the endlag could be risky, as it would make the move much more spammable. We don't want Byleth throwing this move out at every given moment not even fearing whiffs. So, I propose increasing the amount of shield stun the tip deals instead. That way Byleth can return to neutral upon spacing the move properly, instead of fearing a punish.
For Side Special, I think the grounded version should have less endlag, as it is a high commitment option that is currently outclassed by the aerial version on the move. there simply is not much reason to ever go for the grounded version in it's current state.
By making this change, Byleth is given a choice. Ether go for the move in the air for more range and utility at the risk of being punished easier, or go for the safer grounded version with much more limited range and less utility. Even with reduced endlag, it should be possible to still punish Byleth if the sourspot is blocked, or if the move is sidestepped.
The last change to this move is merely aesthetic. Make the tipper of the spear have Marth's tipper effect, as the current version of the move does not feel satisfying to land.
Buff 3: Give Neutral Special More Durability, Reduce the Charge of Tier 2: Byleth currently has one of the most clunky projectiles in the game, though contrary to popular belief, I think tier 1 of the Bow isn't that bad. It has kill potential, deals good shield damage, and can be great for tech chasing.
The long windup does make the move committal though, and a move with this much commitment should not lose to any small projectile that crosses it's path. Added more durability to the arrow would make it a reasonable option against projectile zoners.
As for Tier 2, this move is sadly terrible. Yes it deals amazing shield damage, but your opponent will only get hit by it if they are panicking. In the moves current state, It can be reacted to around the the point it is half charged. The opponent can then get out of the way, think of 55 different ways to punish Byleth, and then punish.
I think reducing the start up to that halfway charge point would make the move still fairly easy to avoid, but would give clever Byleth players a chance to set up traps with it.
Buff 4: Make Backthrow Kill at the Ledge: This is a simple one. It does not even have to be that powerful, but it should be killing around 140%. The character would still struggle with grabs, but would become just that much more dangerous in the corner, where Byleth is already pretty decent.
Buff 5: Increase the Bounce on Up Special's Spike: Up B is designed to be a move that is more powerful at later percents, and has the potential to be an incredibly unique combo tool. With it's current design however, the move has the opposite effect, as the spike put Byleth above their opponent, which is a terrible position for them.
The spike should at the very least put Byleth and their opponent at the same height, and should bounce the foe above Byleth once above 100%, killing at around 130-140%. This would provide Byleth with an incredibly flashy way to end a stock, and would actually reward them for landing a fairly limited command grab.
That concludes my list. Feel free to let me know if you disagree with any changes, or have your own changes in mind.