FlamingUmbreon
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2016
- Messages
- 3
I don't think so, and I'll go over why I think she's mid tier at best. Here, I'll go over Jigglypuff's strategy, and how her moves could be used in accordance to her strategy or play style.
Strategy!
Jigglypuff's strategy is simple: throw the opponent off the edge until they can't recover anymore. Jigglypuff isn't meant to kill, but to gimp. She's the epitome of what smash bros originally was-- throw them off the level to win. This could be a double edged sword, though, as Jigglypuff can gimp very easily as low to mid percents, but over 100%, her options become somewhat limited. But, if her optimal strategy is to gimp, what about it? How would anybody use that to their advantage? And what about Jigglypuff's smash attacks, then? Well, going over ever move Jigglypuff has, I'll go over how they can be all used to reach Jigglypuff's goals. However, since Jigglypuff isn't the fastest out of the bunch, you might need to play a bit defensively to reach what you need to do. Now, let's look at the facts:
(Things she has to her advantage are in green, conversely red is at her disadvantage. Gray is neutral!)
Facts:
1) Jigglypuff has the near fastest air speed (with Yoshi being the fastest iirc)
2) Jigglypuff has a very small hitbox
3) Jigglypuff has a great horizontal recovery with Side B and her Jumps
4) Rest, while not as powerful as in Melee, still can KO faster than all of Jigglypuff's smash attacks. It's also very fast (comes out frame 1), and has super armor. Speaking of Rest, Rest can actually be combo'd into! A weak Fair can combo into a rest at low percents. Lastly, Rest, even if it doesn't kill, puts a flower on them for even more gradual damage. From that, you can play very defensively and rack up damage while you wait.
5) Jigglypuff has a great duck, being able to dodge multiple attacks like Marth's Shield Breaker and Corrin's Fsmash.
6) She can perform great walls of pain with Weak Fair/Nair > Fair.
7) She can edge guard exponentially well, as she can be able to afford going off the stage very far and gimp with a weak Fair or Nair
8) Her defensive game is very good, being able to shield, and then jump out of it into the air (the one place she shines in), and counter attack with Dair, Bair, Nair, or Fair (conversely, Upsmash, rest, or even Sing can be very good options!)
9) Her Down Smash can make opponents slide!! This will be very important later on
10) Her Side B (Pound), can actually perform adequate shield pressure, and since Jigglypuff has excellent air speed, AND since Pound stops most momentum, you can move upwards above their shield (away from grab range if they try grab out of shield), Side B downwards to the top of their shield, and do tons of damage to it. With this, they'll often times stop shielding to prevent a shield break, letting you go a little bit more offensive if you need to!
11) Her Bair is an excellent killing move, and can apply somewhat decent pressure onto shields at high percents, as the shield will be damaged or the opponent will be knocked very far if they drop their shield. Even her Nair can kill if you time it correctly near the side of the screen.
12) Jigglypuff can juggle sometimes with Uair.
13) Did you know Rollout and Sing can ledge cancel? If you jump and use either of the two, you can still grab the ledge! This means if you're at the edge, you can sing and grab the ledge, cancelling all her lag! That makes for an easy punish once you get up.
14) Rollout itself doesn't take too long to charge, and is very fast and powerful. In fact, rollout is a good fakeout tool as you can use rollout, charge to them, and hold in the other direction! This makes rollout do no damage, and even go past enemies, before turning around and then hitting again. This can be repeated until rollout is finished. This means that if you're up against a Corrin and they counter, you can predict a counter, use Rollout and go past them right as they counter, and then hit them from behind!
15) Dair is probably the weakest of Jigglypuff's air moves, but it can be used as an anti air if you're above somebody. It, too, can combo into rest or Fair.
16) Her Uptilt is very useful as it can push opponents into the air, where jigglypuff is great in, and combo with up air.
16) Her Up Smash is somewhat strong compared to the other of jigglypuff's attacks, but it is slow. However, with correct spacing and timing this isn't usually a problem. Same for side smash and dash attack.
17) Her taunts are very lolsy, her "JIGGLYPUFF!!!" taunt just seems to make the salt rise out of people
19) Her weight is very light, which sometimes can be good to escape combos, but often times just makes her easy to kill.
20) Her running speed is slower than ganondorf after eating 50 big macs during a mountain dew drinking contest, she's so slow that you NEED to jump and hop all the time, which makes you open to attacks. If you air dodge close to the ground, lag happens. You can't shield safely unless you're on the ground and you NEVER want to be on the ground as her.
21) Her shield kills you if it breaks. Seriously, sakurai, why did this happen? Was that pun of her being a balloon pokemon and popping her shield really that necessary? But yeah, don't shield if it's too damaged. Ru- I mean JUMP to the edge and play defensively until you can regain your position
22) Her weaknesses make her need to play defensively 90% of the time
23) Almost all of her tilts are useless, with the exception of Uptilt. Her Forward tilt can be okay as a "get off me" move if they're in front of you, but Jab is usually better at doing that. Typically, if you need to, Fair > Forward Tilt can be used. Down Tilt, though, is useless. NEVER USE IT. It's worse than every other move in the game, without a doubt. It hits nothing, comes out too slowly, and is too weak to use with anything.
24) With the exception of Side Special, all of her special moves put her in tons of lag if they aren't used perfectly. Even then, sometimes the opponent can still perform a slight punish after being killed with rest. Oh, and if you hit somebody in midair with rollout, good luck dying. You'll rollout to your death no matter what. Sing is also pretty bad, and with the occasional ledge cancelling, sing is rarely used. Although, if you think it's worth it, you can sing after dying. When you respawn, your opponent will usually roll BEHIND you since they're on the edge trying to wait as far as possible for your invincibility frames to stop. If they roll and you predict it and sing, you can perform a free punish. This is risky, however, because they can punish you after.
25) Jigglypuff can be killed literally without attacking. How so you might ask? One word: Footstools.
26) Jigglypuff is just somewhat slow compared to the rest of the cast.
27) Most of her throws don't combo very well, and are typically used to get superior stage control
28) Back Air is somewhat slow to hit
Playstyle:
Now, with all this being said, how should we use all of her moves to our advantage? Well, since Jigglypuff's goal seems to be to gimp and not to kill, Forward Smash and Up Smash are rarely to be used. Getting them to one side of the stage and trying to gimp them is better. However, if you do break their shield with Pound, AND they're at medium percents where Forward Smash won't kill, you can charge a Down Smash and push them off to the side and down, and try to gimp them even further! Her most useful moves are: Fair, Nair, Uair, Pound, Dair, Up tilt, Forward/Back/Down throw, Down Smash, rest, Rollout (a tad situational), Side Smash, Jab (very situational but it comes out fast so it can be used if necessary)
So, with all that said, and since jigglypuff is typically slower than the rest, she needs to play defensively for the majority of the game. Baiting is very useful as jiggs too. Unless there's a good reason to, going too offensive will just open up weakness that are easy to defend against, such as trying to Fair too much or dash attacking too much. This doesn't make her a bad character, though, as some characters are just better for a defensive playstyle, while others are more aggressive.
Now, if I'm being an idiot, somebody please tell me, but otherwise, I don't think Jigglypuff is THAT bad as people say. She could be mid tier, but she isn't bottom tier for sure. She has tools, and plenty of them.
Thoughts? sorry for this tl;dr, I might make a better post but I ran out of time so yeh
Strategy!
Jigglypuff's strategy is simple: throw the opponent off the edge until they can't recover anymore. Jigglypuff isn't meant to kill, but to gimp. She's the epitome of what smash bros originally was-- throw them off the level to win. This could be a double edged sword, though, as Jigglypuff can gimp very easily as low to mid percents, but over 100%, her options become somewhat limited. But, if her optimal strategy is to gimp, what about it? How would anybody use that to their advantage? And what about Jigglypuff's smash attacks, then? Well, going over ever move Jigglypuff has, I'll go over how they can be all used to reach Jigglypuff's goals. However, since Jigglypuff isn't the fastest out of the bunch, you might need to play a bit defensively to reach what you need to do. Now, let's look at the facts:
(Things she has to her advantage are in green, conversely red is at her disadvantage. Gray is neutral!)
Facts:
1) Jigglypuff has the near fastest air speed (with Yoshi being the fastest iirc)
2) Jigglypuff has a very small hitbox
3) Jigglypuff has a great horizontal recovery with Side B and her Jumps
4) Rest, while not as powerful as in Melee, still can KO faster than all of Jigglypuff's smash attacks. It's also very fast (comes out frame 1), and has super armor. Speaking of Rest, Rest can actually be combo'd into! A weak Fair can combo into a rest at low percents. Lastly, Rest, even if it doesn't kill, puts a flower on them for even more gradual damage. From that, you can play very defensively and rack up damage while you wait.
5) Jigglypuff has a great duck, being able to dodge multiple attacks like Marth's Shield Breaker and Corrin's Fsmash.
6) She can perform great walls of pain with Weak Fair/Nair > Fair.
7) She can edge guard exponentially well, as she can be able to afford going off the stage very far and gimp with a weak Fair or Nair
8) Her defensive game is very good, being able to shield, and then jump out of it into the air (the one place she shines in), and counter attack with Dair, Bair, Nair, or Fair (conversely, Upsmash, rest, or even Sing can be very good options!)
9) Her Down Smash can make opponents slide!! This will be very important later on
10) Her Side B (Pound), can actually perform adequate shield pressure, and since Jigglypuff has excellent air speed, AND since Pound stops most momentum, you can move upwards above their shield (away from grab range if they try grab out of shield), Side B downwards to the top of their shield, and do tons of damage to it. With this, they'll often times stop shielding to prevent a shield break, letting you go a little bit more offensive if you need to!
11) Her Bair is an excellent killing move, and can apply somewhat decent pressure onto shields at high percents, as the shield will be damaged or the opponent will be knocked very far if they drop their shield. Even her Nair can kill if you time it correctly near the side of the screen.
12) Jigglypuff can juggle sometimes with Uair.
13) Did you know Rollout and Sing can ledge cancel? If you jump and use either of the two, you can still grab the ledge! This means if you're at the edge, you can sing and grab the ledge, cancelling all her lag! That makes for an easy punish once you get up.
14) Rollout itself doesn't take too long to charge, and is very fast and powerful. In fact, rollout is a good fakeout tool as you can use rollout, charge to them, and hold in the other direction! This makes rollout do no damage, and even go past enemies, before turning around and then hitting again. This can be repeated until rollout is finished. This means that if you're up against a Corrin and they counter, you can predict a counter, use Rollout and go past them right as they counter, and then hit them from behind!
15) Dair is probably the weakest of Jigglypuff's air moves, but it can be used as an anti air if you're above somebody. It, too, can combo into rest or Fair.
16) Her Uptilt is very useful as it can push opponents into the air, where jigglypuff is great in, and combo with up air.
16) Her Up Smash is somewhat strong compared to the other of jigglypuff's attacks, but it is slow. However, with correct spacing and timing this isn't usually a problem. Same for side smash and dash attack.
17) Her taunts are very lolsy, her "JIGGLYPUFF!!!" taunt just seems to make the salt rise out of people
19) Her weight is very light, which sometimes can be good to escape combos, but often times just makes her easy to kill.
20) Her running speed is slower than ganondorf after eating 50 big macs during a mountain dew drinking contest, she's so slow that you NEED to jump and hop all the time, which makes you open to attacks. If you air dodge close to the ground, lag happens. You can't shield safely unless you're on the ground and you NEVER want to be on the ground as her.
21) Her shield kills you if it breaks. Seriously, sakurai, why did this happen? Was that pun of her being a balloon pokemon and popping her shield really that necessary? But yeah, don't shield if it's too damaged. Ru- I mean JUMP to the edge and play defensively until you can regain your position
22) Her weaknesses make her need to play defensively 90% of the time
23) Almost all of her tilts are useless, with the exception of Uptilt. Her Forward tilt can be okay as a "get off me" move if they're in front of you, but Jab is usually better at doing that. Typically, if you need to, Fair > Forward Tilt can be used. Down Tilt, though, is useless. NEVER USE IT. It's worse than every other move in the game, without a doubt. It hits nothing, comes out too slowly, and is too weak to use with anything.
24) With the exception of Side Special, all of her special moves put her in tons of lag if they aren't used perfectly. Even then, sometimes the opponent can still perform a slight punish after being killed with rest. Oh, and if you hit somebody in midair with rollout, good luck dying. You'll rollout to your death no matter what. Sing is also pretty bad, and with the occasional ledge cancelling, sing is rarely used. Although, if you think it's worth it, you can sing after dying. When you respawn, your opponent will usually roll BEHIND you since they're on the edge trying to wait as far as possible for your invincibility frames to stop. If they roll and you predict it and sing, you can perform a free punish. This is risky, however, because they can punish you after.
25) Jigglypuff can be killed literally without attacking. How so you might ask? One word: Footstools.
26) Jigglypuff is just somewhat slow compared to the rest of the cast.
27) Most of her throws don't combo very well, and are typically used to get superior stage control
28) Back Air is somewhat slow to hit
Playstyle:
Now, with all this being said, how should we use all of her moves to our advantage? Well, since Jigglypuff's goal seems to be to gimp and not to kill, Forward Smash and Up Smash are rarely to be used. Getting them to one side of the stage and trying to gimp them is better. However, if you do break their shield with Pound, AND they're at medium percents where Forward Smash won't kill, you can charge a Down Smash and push them off to the side and down, and try to gimp them even further! Her most useful moves are: Fair, Nair, Uair, Pound, Dair, Up tilt, Forward/Back/Down throw, Down Smash, rest, Rollout (a tad situational), Side Smash, Jab (very situational but it comes out fast so it can be used if necessary)
So, with all that said, and since jigglypuff is typically slower than the rest, she needs to play defensively for the majority of the game. Baiting is very useful as jiggs too. Unless there's a good reason to, going too offensive will just open up weakness that are easy to defend against, such as trying to Fair too much or dash attacking too much. This doesn't make her a bad character, though, as some characters are just better for a defensive playstyle, while others are more aggressive.
Now, if I'm being an idiot, somebody please tell me, but otherwise, I don't think Jigglypuff is THAT bad as people say. She could be mid tier, but she isn't bottom tier for sure. She has tools, and plenty of them.
Thoughts? sorry for this tl;dr, I might make a better post but I ran out of time so yeh