Intro (preamble rant about the Mario’s)
How’s it going I’m dr jay and this is my guide to playing Doc and Mario in Smash ultimate. Obviously having a guide on two characters in one video is a bit different, so I’d like to start off with some quick background info about the Mario’s in competitive smash. Also I’ve left timestamps for each section of this guide in the description if you want to skip to a specific part.
Mario and doctor Mario are both very balanced characters in every iteration of smash, and they’ve always been at least decent characters. People have been arguing over which mario is better since 2001, and everyone has their own opinion on the subject. In melee by general consensus, doc was in the lead at first with players like captain jack using his punish potential to the fullest, but after a while people started saying that Mario was better because is recovery. A rookie has always dominated with Mario and his combo potential despite him being seen as relatively low tier. Then you have players like shroomed beating melee gods with doc in major tournaments, and now next gen players are taking him to the next level like one of my personal favorite newish players Franz. (Shoutouts to the doc discord btw, haven’t been on in a few months but great guys)
Anyway, in smash 4 there wasn’t much debate. Mario was better in almost every way, and his combo game was top tier.
Now in ultimate things have been changed a lot, mario has been needed and doc has been buffed. They’ve both received changes that mix up their overall place in the tier list, and now there are very good reasons to back up picking either one. However, they both have a pretty different playstyle so it’s really a matter of what works for you.
General info:
Let’s get the most obvious differences out of the way first. Mario basically has 10-15% better movement speed on the ground and more noticeably in the air and his attacks are just a bit faster, but doc does equally more damage and knockback on all of his moves. Because of this, Mario is better at rushing people down and running away making it easier for your opponents to make mistakes, but doc punishes your opponents mistakes much harder when they make one. Basically, doc is slightly more reactive while Mario is more aggressive if that makes sense. However, doc still has an amazing combo game and Mario’s knockout and damage dealing power is pretty good.
Jab
Let’s start off simple with jab. Docs jab used to be much worse than Mario’s, but now docs is slightly better. It’s a little bit harder to land all of docs jabs than Mario’s, but docs jabs do much more damage overall and now it can be used to jab lock for combos and kill setups just like Mario’s. However, both of their jabs are extremely useful and should be a move that you use a decent amount in most matchups. Btw the Mario’s really utilize crouch cancelling when it comes to close quarter combat, for the uninitiated crouch canceling is performed just by crouching while you’re hit. You’ll recieve less hitstun and knockback and if you do it correctly at low percents in response to weak moves like enemy jabs you will be able to punish with a jab, tilt, or grab of your own. This is with every character obviously, but I find it especially helpful on doc and often Mario as well. Anyway, on to tilts.
Tilts
Both of their uptilts are solid juggling and combo tools, although neither of them are as good as Mario’s up tilt from smash 4. Up tilt has really bad horizontal range, so It will whiff on smaller grounded opponents, but it’s very good as an anti air attack and combo extender.
F tilt is a fast spacing move with decent knock back which can be angled and usesd in all kinds of situation from spacing and combos to edge-guarding and even a ko at high enough percent. While f tilt can be more reliable and safer, down tilt can be more useful than f tilt in a few situations. Mario’s down tilt, like many of his moves, has been nerfed as it sends your opponent away from Mario making it much harder to follow up. Docs still sends the opponent more straight up so it can be followed up easier. Down tilt is an amazing combo starter that can lead to a lot of things.
Dash attack
Dash attack got some pretty big nerfs in my opinion especially on Mario’s end, even though both of them travel farther than in smash 4. The fact that it no longer ducks down as much means that it’s not as safe against projectiles and high hitboxes and can’t be used as creatively for dodging and countering attacks as it used to. The knockback trajectory on Mario’s also points away from Mario, rather than towards him like in smash 4, limiting its use in combos. Again Docs dash attack sends opponents straight up, so it’s a bit easier to follow up, and the damage has been buffed pretty significantly from smash 4 so even if you can’t follow it up it’s pretty good to land. Dash attack used to be one of my favorite moves on doc in melee because of his ducking animation, so I’m glad it still has its uses on him but Mario’s is really not that great in my opinion.
Smashes
Up smash is usually better on doc as it can be used as a reliable short range knockout tool or combo starter, but Mario often has a better time following it up i think due to its lower knockback and his faster air speed.
F smash is shorter range on doc so it can’t be used as safely as Mario’s which is longer and faster, but docs f smash is a better punish move when you get a hard read. It also got buffed a lot in terms of damage from smash 4 for both of them, going from about 14% to 17%, so if you get a solid read try and look for an opportunity to f smash because it’s never a bad move to land. Down smash covers both sides of you, comes out fast, and has a lot of power behind it. It’s a very good knockout tool especially on smaller enemies, and it’s a great panic move for less experienced players.
Aerials
This is where Mario really shines over doc in my opinion, as everything has less lag and knockback than doc so they can start combos easier, and Mario moves much faster in the air compared to doc. Both of their up airs are amazing combo tools and good for catching opponents that like to jump or be above you. Up air is a great combo extender, finisher, and even knockout tool in some cases. Mario can only ko with it by following it up with a stronger attack, pushing them all the way to the top of the stage, or edgeguarding after the up air. Docs, however, is a solid ko move. Back air is great spacing tool, edgeguarding options, and out of shield attacks. A strong hit from bair knocks out with both characters at a decent enough present.
Their nairs look exactly the same, but they’re opposites in a way. Docs nair gets stronger as you hold it out, and Mario’s, like every similar move in the game, is strongest when it first comes out. This winds up making their uses quite different, as doc can instantly use nair to start combos and extend them easier and hold one out on a read for a kill, while Mario uses his late nair to start combos and uses his early one as a get off me tool and for knockouts. This means that with Mario you have to make a read to start a combo with nair because you have to hold it out and can then you can finish combos with a nair without having to make a hard read. Doc, on the other hand, can quickly use his nair to start combos but has to make a hard read and telegraph the attack to get a ko.
Down air and forward air are also quite different for doc and regular Mario. Their fairs look the same, but the big difference is that docs does more damage and knockback and always sends opponents up and away, leading to a ko from almost anywhere with enough percent. Mario’s is faster and does less damage than docs but the last part of it spikes so it can be used as a high risk high reward move off stage or as a combo starter. Docs forward air is way heftier and sends the opponent up and a way for a knockout on any part of the stage.
Down air for Mario has him spin around kind of like Luigi or docs cylcone but with much les mobility and it’s kind of hard to land all of the hits. It doesn’t have good range and it lasts really long so it’s risky，and it doesn’t knock out very easily. Docs dair is kind of like gannondorf or captain falcons, it’s slower than Mario’s down air but send the opponent in a meteor smash straight down. It’s pretty effective at getting a knockout or punishing from above, and it looks very stylish. It’s also a great tool for tech chasing and combo-ing similar to captain falcon in melee if you know what I mean. It can be tricky to get the timing right on this especially if you’re adding in a fast fall afterwards, so try practicing on a platform getting short hop and full hop dairs high up, low to the platform, and barely through the platform.
Grabs
For grabs and throws, use down throw to start combos, and use back throw as a kill option at Hugh percents, but that’s mostly with doc. Don throw leads into tons of stuff at different percents, but the safest follow up for to down throw Mario at any general percent is usually a nair since his down throw has been nerfed heavily. Doc, however, has one of the safest and most damaging follow ups to down throw in the game with down throw to down b. I’ll go over this move more in the specials section, but basically it now does a ton of damage, has armor on start up, has a vortex effect that allows for you to move the opponent with you once caught, and it can ko at a very decent percent. If you rapidly tab b during docs cyclone you will rise up a bit so you can use this to bring your opponent closer to the top blast zone for an easy knock out. At low percents, immediately follow your opponents trajectory and use down b from the ground, and at Hugh percents ad a quick jump in to catch them before they get out of hitstun. In many cases this is a true combo, but it’s really close so your opponent can get out in time with good di and/or a buffered attack in some cases. Mario can follow up down throw with aerials other than nair, but I haven’t found any reliably true combos with it and i don’t believe there are.
Up throw, on the other hand with both Mario’s, and can start combos pretty well especially with up air or forward air if you’re just that kinda player, and up throw can lead to an easy juggle scenario if you can get a read as they fall. The up throw fair is called the kobe, the Lebron, or as i like to call it the dr jay (lol). On doc it’s not only one of the coolest looking thing in the game, but it’s also a reliable kill confirm. For Mario it’s pretty cool, but it’s less stylish ahem i mean helpful on stage unless you get a pretty difficult follow up. With Mario, I would mostly stick to up throw into fullhop or double jump up air depending on the percent.
Back throw is a great knockout throw for doc and a great way to start an edgeguard with Mario, although it can kill around the 130-150% area on most characters with the right positioning. Btw back throw on doc is faster but no longer hits other enemies while you’re spinning, this matters in doubles but the only 1v1 matchup in which this is a real nerf is with ice climbers.
Forward throw should only be used for getting your opponent off stage as far as i can tell so you won’t be using this one that much. At low percents I can see it being followed up in high level play but I just don’t see the advantage of forward throw compared to up and down throws in most situations.
Specials-
In melee, I would have engaged you in intense hand to hand combat if you tried to tell me that Mario’s up b was better than docs, even if he could do an instant wall jump after it to recover easier.
Now, I would still say docs is better but there are a lot more trade offs that make Mario’s better in some situations, like recovering for instance because marios up b covers a longer distance than docs. However docs down b and pills from offstage makes up for this lack of recovery distance with reliability and mix ups. Docs up b can knock out much easier and is pretty reliable while Mario’s doesn’t send opponents far, but docs up b doesn’t have intangibility on startup like Mario’s, but Mario’s intangibility is so small it barely matters. Their up b hitboxes work differently, with Mario having 6 equal hitboxes along his jump and doc having one on start up and one big one to finish it.
Side b is cape or super sheet, and I think that they’re both really useful. I had a blast gimping opponents recovery in melee with docs side b while my friends told me “capes not hype”. In this game, cape is very hype. Mario’s can be used to stall recovery but it doesn’t gain much distance, while docs can’t be used for recovery. Both of them turn opponents around and reflect projectiles, and docs does a bit more damage and has more vertical range than Mario’s while Mario’s has more horizontal range. Because of the really projectile heavy meta that it looks like ultimate is going to have, I can see cape being a really useful move in neutral now in some matchups.
Doc and Mario’s Down b’s are way different, Mario’s is fluid which is a chargeable projectile attack that pushes your opponent away without doing percent. It’s really great for gimping your opponents recovery or just pushing them away from center stage, so having a fully charged one is always good, but other than that it’s not very useful and can be more of a liability in the neutral game.
As i showed before with down throw follow ups, Docs down b is pretty much metaKnights neutral b. if you mash it you gain vertical height which can be used for recovery and it’s great for falling down on your opponent with one. It knocks out at a decent percent and does s lot of damage.
Now it’s time for the age old question- Pills or fireballs? Well... pills. They do more damage, travel at a much better and trickier trajectory, they’re way bigger now so they’re harder to dodge, and you can yell eat your medicine while circle camping your friends. But actually, Mario’s fireballs are only a small part of his game plan while in some matchups, docs pills are his game plan. doc wants the opponent to approach him, and what better way to force an approach than by jumping and mashing the b button? Pills are great for starting combos, although they do have increased knockback now, so they’re harder to follow up but better if you land one on an opponent that’s off stage. practicing getting your pills to bounce and land just right is key to playing doc well. Marios fireballs can do kind of the same stuff as docs pills, but they just aren’t as good all around and should be used very sparingly. They aren’t as helpful when you’re recovering, and do barely any hitstun so they’re often more of a liability. With both of the Mario’s projectiles you should try to use them mostly right after shorthopping so that you can follow after them for an easier approach.
Strategy+counterplay
In my other guides on young link and yoshi i talked about how to counter them as well, but playing against Mario doesn’t require much in terms of a specific strategy. Because of this, i will be talking a bit more generally about strategy and counterplay in one section, as opposed to my previous guides. The Mario’s are all round balanced characters, so just use your characters unique strengths against him. The Mario’s can do pretty much anything at least decently and should be constantly mixing things up, while their opponents can just use their strengths to exploit the fact that the Mario’s are general not amazing at anything in particular. Neither of the Mario’s have particularly great hitboxes so it’s relatively easy to stuff their approaches, but spamming projectiles at long range doesn’t usually work on either of the Mario’s due to cape, pills, and fireballs. Against the Mario’s uou really have to switch between approaching while you’re behind and forcing approaches while you’re in the lead, just as the Mario’s should do the same. When you do approach, Mario’s fireballs can be easily maneuvered around and Docs pills can be knocked out by long hitboxes like swords. In terms of positioning, almost always be on center stage unless you’re strategically pill camping for percent or to force an approach. Both of the Mario’s have great defense when being attacked from above, so opponents should attack from below or horizontally more often. Neither of the Mario’s out of shield options are that great so feel free to pressure them or go for a grab, but just remember that Mario can move farther with aerials out of shield due to his air speed, and if you get perfect shielded by doc you’re in for a world of hurt.
Matchups:
I personally think doc has a pretty easy time against characters that a lot of people are saying are top teir, like Pikachu, the Belmont’s, and inkling. I actually love playing against inkling as doc because you can easily pull camp to wait for them to run out of ink or for ink to get off you. He also does quite well against a few other characters that a lot of people seem to struggle against, like King K. Rool and sheikMario I do not think does as well in these matchups because he doesn’t have pills or the doc tornado. The upside to mario, however, is that in matchups that doc struggles in mario goes a bit more even in because of his recovery and airspeed. Generally i would say Mario does better against very light or very heavy characters, while Mario prefers fighting midweights that can be combo’d but also can be knocked out. I think the biggest question as to both Mario’s will do in the next few months is how well will sword characters do against them, specifically the 4 marthlike characters. Honestly I think chroms recovery makes him easily gimp-able by docs pills or Mario’s fluud, and Lucina doesn’t have quite as much of the spacing power that marth has so she can’t abuse her hitboxes as much. Marth and Roy, however I feel are the bane of he Mario’s. Roy can fair through docs pills with the tip of his sword and can then easily get close enough with his speed to punish with the hilt of his sword. Same goes for marth, but he can be a bit farther away when he punishes. Mario doesn’t even have pills so this is a moot point for him, but marth and Roy can still easily slice through mario because Mario’s air speed frame data and hitboxes are just straight up out classed by these two swordsmen. Against the fire emblem characters, your goal with doc should be to chip away and force approaches with pills while making hard reads to get close and punish them, and for Mario you should be weaving in and out trying to force your opponent into an edgeguard situation rather than go for a straight up knock out. These principles apply to doc and Mario in pretty much every matchup, but against characters that the Mario’s struggle with you have to really stick to your characters optimal game plan. Also, both Mario’s are fairly easily juggled so characters that can juggle easily like cloud have a great time against the Mario’s. Being below or next the opponent is pretty key with the Mario’s so keep that in mind.
