MARTH! UP AIR > FORWARD SMASH
Although I don't main Marth, this trick has begun to interest me a lot. Notably because at the right %'s it is a true combo (Not accounting for DI).
I've found a lot of use for it, as a lot of my chain grabs and spikes are not to such a high standard. If there is an opening for an up air, then I feel that this is an easy method for a kill at higher %'s.
In this guide I will be outlining some of the %'s that this trick works with on specific characters, and also talking about some set ups, and situations it could be used in.
Contents: -----------------------------------------------------------------
1. - Setting up
1.5. - How to
2. - Working %'s
3 - Situational use
1. Setting up -------------------------------------------------------------
First of all allow me to begin by stating that this technique is dependant on DI, similar to an Up throw up air with Fox
Character positioning
This trick is rather hard to set up, depending on the %. This is because the % the opponent is at determines what hit box of the up air will be used.
The best way to achieve this combination, is finding a way to position yourself underneath your opponent whilst they are in hit stun. A good method of achieving this position is from another up air, or an up throw. It is optimal for the opponent to be above you, however this can also be achieved if the opponent is to your side. Whether the opponent is above you or to your side, the up air will still position the opponent in the right position.
Stage positioning
The floor - Where you are on the stage would not affect this situation unless there are platforms. This is because there is no real dependence on platforms to get this combination. Platforms are addressed below.
I would recommend if possible, forward smashing in the direction of the closest side blast zone. Especially close to the edge. This is as it would increase the chances of getting a kill, or give you a better edge guarding opportunity.
Underneath platforms - Platforms could interrupt this combination if the opponent is launched too high. Because of this, try to attempt to do this without any platforms on top.
However if the opponent does land on the platform. This could easily lead to a sharking situation as a second option.
Different hit boxes
The Forward smash will be harder to achieve at higher %'s. This is because the Up air would have to be from the sour hit box of Marth's up air. It is obviously harder to get the inside hit box of the up air. This is as it requires more careful spacing, which could allow the opponent to land a hit before the up air.
I would recommend attempting this at lower %'s and using the tip, unless a clear opening is available as allowing someone so close to get the inside hit box puts Marth in a very vulnerable spot.
Tipper (The outside) - This is much easier to do than the inside hit box, however it only works at lower %'s as it would otherwise send the opponent too far away. Due to the lower % this means that the opponent will not be sent as far by the forward smash. Hit the opponent with the outside of the sword to land with this hit box.
Sour (The inside) - This is the harder hit box to land positionally, however is
necessary to land the forward smash at higher %'s. To land this hit box allow the opponent slightly closer to Marth before using the up air. However if the opponent is too close then the hit box will not connect.
1.5. How to ---------------------------------------------------------------
Execution
Once the position is achieved, the actual execution of the technique is very simple:
1. Short hop
2. Up air
3. Immediately fast fall (After 5-8 frames of up air)
4. L-Cancel
5. Forward smash (After 7 frames) (Direction is reaction based)
Button inputs
1.
or
2.
3.
4. or
5. or
Hit stun
The up air, no matter what hit box landed, provides enough hit stun that you are able to react to the direction in which you should forward smash. However don't wait too long or else your victim will be able to jump away.
2. Working %'s ---------------------------------------------------------
Being worked on
These %'s will obviously be an estimate as spacing will be a factor, however correctly spaced they will work (DI dependant). These %'s are measured from the hit box in front of Marth. The Fsmash is performed immediately.
Soft hit box
Character | Lowest % | Highest %
Fox | |
Falco | |
Sheik | |
Marth | |
Jigglypuff | |
Peach | |
Captain Falcon | |
IC's | |
Dr. Mario | |
Pikachu | |
Samus | |
Ganondorf | |
Luigi | |Tipper hit box
Character | Lowest % | Highest %
Fox | 20% | 78%
Falco | 16% | 68%
Sheik | 0% |
Marth | 0% | 39%
Jigglypuff | 0% | 24%
Peach | 0% | 40%
Captain Falcon | 0% | 66%
IC's | |
Dr. Mario | |
Pikachu | |
Samus | |
Ganondorf | |
Luigi | |3. Situational use ------------------------------------------------------
In comparison to other set ups
This technique is unfortunately very situational, and requires the opponent to be above you (Ideally in hit stun) or in a position at your side which would also allow you to get the up air. Of course when not looking for this, you may find yourself in the ideal position often. However doing this as an intended set up may be difficult.
The technique is also made more difficult by the specific % requirements. However when you find the opportunity I would definitely find it useful.
This is definitely not as 'good' as things such as the Ken combo, in the aspect of reliability (Since you will find yourself doing it less often). However the execution is much easier, and one positioned, the forward smash is almost guaranteed.
I find this to be one of the best forward smash set ups. It can get both the standard forward smash and a tipper.
I would recommend to not fish for this, however if the opportunity presents it's self it is definitely useful.
Although I don't main Marth, this trick has begun to interest me a lot. Notably because at the right %'s it is a true combo (Not accounting for DI).
I've found a lot of use for it, as a lot of my chain grabs and spikes are not to such a high standard. If there is an opening for an up air, then I feel that this is an easy method for a kill at higher %'s.
In this guide I will be outlining some of the %'s that this trick works with on specific characters, and also talking about some set ups, and situations it could be used in.
Contents: -----------------------------------------------------------------
1. - Setting up
1.5. - How to
2. - Working %'s
3 - Situational use
1. Setting up -------------------------------------------------------------
First of all allow me to begin by stating that this technique is dependant on DI, similar to an Up throw up air with Fox
Character positioning
This trick is rather hard to set up, depending on the %. This is because the % the opponent is at determines what hit box of the up air will be used.
The best way to achieve this combination, is finding a way to position yourself underneath your opponent whilst they are in hit stun. A good method of achieving this position is from another up air, or an up throw. It is optimal for the opponent to be above you, however this can also be achieved if the opponent is to your side. Whether the opponent is above you or to your side, the up air will still position the opponent in the right position.
Stage positioning
The floor - Where you are on the stage would not affect this situation unless there are platforms. This is because there is no real dependence on platforms to get this combination. Platforms are addressed below.
I would recommend if possible, forward smashing in the direction of the closest side blast zone. Especially close to the edge. This is as it would increase the chances of getting a kill, or give you a better edge guarding opportunity.
Underneath platforms - Platforms could interrupt this combination if the opponent is launched too high. Because of this, try to attempt to do this without any platforms on top.
However if the opponent does land on the platform. This could easily lead to a sharking situation as a second option.
Different hit boxes
The Forward smash will be harder to achieve at higher %'s. This is because the Up air would have to be from the sour hit box of Marth's up air. It is obviously harder to get the inside hit box of the up air. This is as it requires more careful spacing, which could allow the opponent to land a hit before the up air.
I would recommend attempting this at lower %'s and using the tip, unless a clear opening is available as allowing someone so close to get the inside hit box puts Marth in a very vulnerable spot.
Tipper (The outside) - This is much easier to do than the inside hit box, however it only works at lower %'s as it would otherwise send the opponent too far away. Due to the lower % this means that the opponent will not be sent as far by the forward smash. Hit the opponent with the outside of the sword to land with this hit box.
Sour (The inside) - This is the harder hit box to land positionally, however is
necessary to land the forward smash at higher %'s. To land this hit box allow the opponent slightly closer to Marth before using the up air. However if the opponent is too close then the hit box will not connect.
1.5. How to ---------------------------------------------------------------
Execution
Once the position is achieved, the actual execution of the technique is very simple:
1. Short hop
2. Up air
3. Immediately fast fall (After 5-8 frames of up air)
4. L-Cancel
5. Forward smash (After 7 frames) (Direction is reaction based)
Button inputs
1.
or 2.
3.
4.
or 5.
or Hit stun
The up air, no matter what hit box landed, provides enough hit stun that you are able to react to the direction in which you should forward smash. However don't wait too long or else your victim will be able to jump away.
2. Working %'s ---------------------------------------------------------
Being worked onThese %'s will obviously be an estimate as spacing will be a factor, however correctly spaced they will work (DI dependant). These %'s are measured from the hit box in front of Marth. The Fsmash is performed immediately.
Soft hit box
Fox | |
Falco | |
Sheik | |
Marth | |
Jigglypuff | |
Peach | |
Captain Falcon | |
IC's | |
Dr. Mario | |
Pikachu | |
Samus | |
Ganondorf | |
Luigi | |
Fox | 20% | 78%
Falco | 16% | 68%
Sheik | 0% |
Marth | 0% | 39%
Jigglypuff | 0% | 24%
Peach | 0% | 40%
Captain Falcon | 0% | 66%
IC's | |
Dr. Mario | |
Pikachu | |
Samus | |
Ganondorf | |
Luigi | |
In comparison to other set ups
This technique is unfortunately very situational, and requires the opponent to be above you (Ideally in hit stun) or in a position at your side which would also allow you to get the up air. Of course when not looking for this, you may find yourself in the ideal position often. However doing this as an intended set up may be difficult.
The technique is also made more difficult by the specific % requirements. However when you find the opportunity I would definitely find it useful.
This is definitely not as 'good' as things such as the Ken combo, in the aspect of reliability (Since you will find yourself doing it less often). However the execution is much easier, and one positioned, the forward smash is almost guaranteed.
I find this to be one of the best forward smash set ups. It can get both the standard forward smash and a tipper.
I would recommend to not fish for this, however if the opportunity presents it's self it is definitely useful.
