| Big D |

Hey, i'm a villager main who's been struggling with the DDD matchup for some time now. May i ask for some tips for the MU if that's okay?

You're an amazing player and a continuous source of inspiration to all Smash 4 DDD players. Thank you for making real placements with DDD

i see u creepin bae

You must really like Yuno.

Sure, yeah his technical proficiency is greater than mine. Ill see how I can help since I cant say I'm a big expert on the MU, but have an alright track record innovating for pika.

I got the chance to play 9B in many friendly games at Apex, and anytime hed try to approach with an iceblock he'd just get hit by the fair and itd lead to a separation. However it's a risky approach as pika, and IC thats just standing there can try to dash grab the startup. Its also just harder to space when pikas the one moving forward as opposed to the opponent.

Hey, so I got a chance to work with one or two people who were able to do the desync you were discussing. I found an effective way to deal with it is fair. Fair has a disjoint on it and when the iceblock hits it, its sent back away while the fair continues through. Its also safe on shield if you space the disjoint. (420 limit so I have to type in two messages...)

In a Dream

loooooooooooooooooooooool

zooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone tan

You are in the zone. Beware of the possibility of anger and octopus arm thingies and other tentacle like objects.

I hope my last comment didnt seem too rude, I was falling asleep as I typed it. I dont mean to discount your experience or to marginalize L's skill, but its something I still need to reconcile with my own understanding of my character. At the moment we both feel theres an area for improvement among most the other users for our mains, but im taking what youve said into consideration and will be trying to get others to learn the desync. Im playing Larry today so maybe he can get it down.

I wasnt very clear but its not execution im concerned with, its strategy and knowledge. I feel odd listing accolades since i feel taking games isnt relevant, but I've won matches from Tyrant, Zex, Fow, Pitbull, Vato, maize (our local IC main who's beaten mike), and others.

I get semi-regular practice against Larry, Tyrant, Mike and Maize all of whom use ICs. However, I acknowledge none of them use the desync you mentioned. It looks strong, but watching it in use it doesnt seem as though itd excessively limit pika or drastically affect the MU on its own unless the MU were pretty linear.

I dont really see a big issue with pika gaining separations, what defines this MU to me is the basic risk reward skew as mentioned where its significantly easier to complete a 0-death grab as ICs than it is for pika to kill nana on separation

However I feel at this point the conversation wont move too far since each of us feels we have a better understanding of the character's tools than the other.

In my experience a double jump provides us with enough extra distance and height to QA to the ground. And no offense towards L, but Id feel more comfortable personally seeing these tactics in use. Especially since virtually every pikachu uses QA's hitbox/hurtbox properties poorly and gets hit when its extended at the intermission and has no hitbox.

By demonstrations Id meant more of the desync and its counter-strategies in practice, otherwise theory and personal experiences could go on endlessly. Unfortunately while I have the chance to play several IC users in my region, none of them use the desync you listed. Im going to play one tomorrow though so maybe I can convince them to learn.

As for tournaments, the MU did occur once in a 5 game grand finals set with ESAM vs Vinnie with several games going last hit both sides. The only time I saw Larry play Z was last year for one game which Z won and forced larry to change to MK.

Sure, but Quick Attack is a bit more versatile as well. Theres no commitment to traveling through the opponent, part of using it correctly is forcing the the opponent to react by thinking youll be somewhere then doing something else. I also believe a double hop jolt could snipe nana and gives pika more mobility to move and QA away then a simple full hop jolt. Im not trying to diminish the strategy, I just think when anticipated there's a lot of options to be considered. I suppose at this point though we'd need demonstrations.

I think if pikachu sticks to platforms the entire match itd be impossible to avoid upair. Platforms are good at assisting, but movement is too limited and predictable if thats where virtually the full match occurs.

I've been slightly familiar with the desync from when delux came to visit. It certainly seems powerful, but after Id first encountered it I felt a well angled QA could circumventing it should it be anticipated. Not that it invalidates the tactic, but I think it adds another element to the RPS game. Granted I havent had the ability to practice against the tactic considerably. It also seems less significant on stages with a platform.

I think its likely pikachu will be taking a lot of poke damage as he battles it out vs popo + nana, in my experience its very common to kill nana while at a higher percent then making up the ground against popo. The most important thing for pika imo is to not just eat the damage the whole match, which is typically what happens. Being able to capitalize on opportunities and especially maximize damage is significant, I feel this latter part especially is a weaker part of L's game that is visible even outside his matches against ICs. Every extra time pika has to separate nana adds significantly to the ICs risk/reward advantage.

I was reading your stuff on pika and just wanted to add some things. I feel that analysis assumes the pika will be playing completely safe and risk free. ICs have a strong risk reward, but dont have anything that seems to shut down pikas approaches or have exceptionally safe approaches on pika unless the pika reduces his own options by playing risk free. While its important to stay safe and he can toss out jolts/run away to assist, pika will still most likely need to look for opportunities and take risks in order to separate nana, while capitalizing on his strength of maximizing damage when the opponent is in an unstable situations in order to minimize the risk reward skew the ICs have. If hes only achieving minor chip damage per attack and ignoring potential approach opportunities for the sake of being absolutely safe then hes going to eat damage the whole match until the deficit is too big to overcome.

if thats Aki-neechan from aki-sora in your avi
you have all my <3

Thanks for the confidence, I've only won the two latest monthlies

I'll give it a shot, if it does't work I'll just try after Impulse.

Putting "I've won a billion tournaments" also matters lol

Yo, when you get the chance, you should post your IC tournament resume in the top 5 thread since you're in consideration to take Smoom's spot due to his inactivity.

well let me know how that works out for you

I didn't find it particularly useful tbh. the only time I ever will use it is if I'm looking for a kill at high percents. P Charged Fsmash / N DACG covers like every option safely

Yooooo you linked a video of me playing Rich Brown from over a year ago.

The modern desyncing game is much sharper that that. I can't believe how bad I was back then >_>

Don't try to emulate that lol

It's ...

Dimensio!

Welcome to the Temp Debaters group. Please read the forum rules and happy debating!