A few thoughts/questions about playing G&W

[Jihnsius]

I've been learning G&W over the past few days, watching combo videos, and it's left with me with a few questions/concerns:

Why doesn't anyone use sausage that much? I think it's best against floaty characters, as you can use it after a d-tilt or throw that you wouldn't normally be able to combo out of. Also, I've noticed that it isn't thrown randomly, there's an arcing pattern to it, so after you kill someone you can set it so your next sausage is a straight forward and use that for an approach.

Why doesn't anyone use fireman as an offensive attack? Floaty characters = combo bait with up+B. After a few times of chaining it, they'll try to counter with an attack. Just jump, baiting them to attack, then hit them with another. If they air dodge through it, you can race them to the ground with a fast fall and then up-throw to another chain. Since nobody uses this, perhaps there's a problem I'm overlooking?

And what's up with the Oil Panic's turnaround? It seems random, but I'm guessing it has to do with the 31 frame loop that the capture goes through?

Thoughts/criticism appreciated.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Why doesn't anyone use sausage that much?

I've seen it used as an edgeguard against fastfallers, or as a spike (hit with the pan). It's also useful every now and then as a surprise. Not spammable though, because of its randomness, lag, and it doesn't go very far.

Why doesn't anyone use fireman as an offensive attack?

It's situational. If you use it in the wrong situation, your opponent can easily get a free hit on you because it leaves you vulnerable for the amount of time it takes to return to the ground (G+w is floaty), and can be outranged or outprioritized by the right attacks anyway. Chaining up-b the way you described sounds like you're asking to get *****.

 

[Jihnsius]

Chaining up-b the way you described sounds like you're asking to get *****.

I was doing this against Samus, and there didn't seem to be any way for her to get out of it. Every once in a while, she'll n-air or d-air to try to stop it, but then I'd just wait half a second and do it again. I'd imagine it's very difficult to near impossible to time an attack that outprioritizes fireman from the moment you hear it start.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

go for it rapid

 

[Needle of Juntah]

my suggestion would be to pick up fox or sheik GW isnt worth the time

 

[Jihnsius]

my suggestion would be to pick up fox or sheik GW isnt worth the time

Do you have a PhD in douchology?

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Lol, wtf was that Samus doing? All she has to do, is bait you into doing up-b stupidly, and then use any attack on you she wishes during the lag... Let's see.. Watch where you'll land, forward smash = dead G+W. Or charge shot, d-smash, etc... Sounds like your friend has some timing issues. Either that, or is using d-air and n-air stupidly, which is your invitation to do something about it, preferrably something that has less lag and/or does more than 6% (basically any a attack falls under this category)

 

[Supreme Pie Ninja]

Why doesn't anyone use sausage that much?

It's situational. You can use it sparcely just to throw off your opponent, and it can work well on fast fallers in some cases too. Like a Falco who likes Side+B sweetspotting. You could shoot out a few sausages to screen the edge, forcing them to approach (usually) from a lower angle, making them a better target for Manhole'ing.

And the pan spike is an awesome move on fast fallers if you can pull it off. Mostly just to make you look good, because if you miss, it's almost certain that they'll just shoot by you and grab the ledge. This would work slightly better on Capt. Falcon than Fox/Falco, as Falcon's recovery is more predictable.

Why doesn't anyone use fireman as an offensive attack?

This is also situational. Only use it once in a while, as players can easily adapt to it. But few expect you to jump up and smack them with it, so feel free to use it once and a while. As with the sausages though, don't abuse it.

Pro Tip: Don't listen to Juntah.

 

[KevinM]

Haha needle always hangs around here and he never gives advice besides picking another character hahah i love it (no sarcasm for once)

The sausage is way to laggy and random and just all in all isn't a good projectile to use you'll get punished for it.

And the fireman is to laggy and if you try and use it on any semi-decent player they are going to punish your floaty GAW with somethin big

 

[arrowhead]

which of his airiels can't be L-cancelled?

 

[Jihnsius]

Back and up.

 

[alphameric]

I use the sausage as a ledgegaurd.
Just fire one off, enemy hits it, attack.
Works wonders for people falling to the ledge, and works just as good for people who don't sweet spot the ledge from the bottom.

The oil-panic turnaround is completely the players fault.
Want to know why? Because chances are that the player is hold down after it's out, when all you need to be holding is B.

On top of that, hold oil-panic is probably a really bad idea. If you want to catch something just tap it so you can get out of it asap.

The fireman 'combo' works ok @ high percentages, otherwise I wouldn't really combo it

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Neutral can't be Lcanceled either.

 

[Jihnsius]

Neutral can't be Lcanceled either.

Sure it can. Go try it on training mode on 1/4 speed. I noticed a difference, but perhaps it's just a placebo effect.

 

[alphameric]

you can l-cancel neutral.
timing is different, but it can be l-canceled.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

According to SDM's frame chart, which was done using AR, Nair is not Lcancel-able, so I'm gonna need more than just your word to believe that it in fact IS Lcancel-able ^_~

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Game_and_Watch_frames_11.6.05.txt

 

[alphameric]

hmm...
I was planning on making a video of all the moves done l-canceled and w/e, so I'll have to check it out.

Also, I remember someone posting that the dash attack might spike.
Strange thing is that I did that today against a jigglypuff. I tried to reproduce it but I'm thinking it is either; A. a random glitch, or B. the LAST section of the dash where he goes forward slightly more, spikes.

B is a bit difficult to test because the previous section hits the ledge person first. So I'm thinking if it really IS B, then the person needs to be invincible for the first couple frames, enough to only be hit by the last one.

There may be some truth in it, since depending on when you hit a player on the ledge, they either go up and behind and onto the stage, or out and straight off the ledge. So maybe the last little step is a meteor spike or some ****.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

alpha, the dash attack spike, what stage did this happen on?

The reason I ask is that one time I was playing some friendlies with Bob$ and Doc's dash attack spiked me (as Jiggly), but this was on Battlefield, and I was I guess under the stage, so we thought that the hitbox sent Jiggly as normal, it just happened that there was the ceiling of the underside of the stage there which caused me to get spiked. I'm fairly certain there was the green flash too. I suppose this thing could happen on any stage though (except say DK64), so long as the trajectory from the hit has a stage side in it somewhere. Could also require 'bad' DI to happen.

 

[alphameric]

it happened on fd

 

[Jihnsius]

Neutral A is noticeably L-Cancelable. Try it on 1/4x. Cancel a bit later than you normally would and then go immediately into neutral A.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I've been trying it and I can't get it. Also, going into neutral A is not the best way, because you won't necessarily neutral A on the first actionable frame (there are still 15 fps in 1/4 mode). What I've been doing is holding to one side, because you WILL walk on the first actionable frame. You also have to make sure you aren't auto-cancelling. Nair has 15 frames lag not L-cancelled, so L-cancelled it should have 7, which is about a half second difference in 1/4 mode.

Alpha, if you notice sometimes when Jiggly is near the edge, the top of her body kind of pops above the stage a bit before she grabs the edge. I think if her heat is hit with the dash attack hitbox at a certain angle and for certain DI, it will put Jiggly in a trajectory that the stage intercepts, so it spikes. You can tell if the stage spikes because there will be that green flash.

 

[Jihnsius]

It seems that you have to L-Cancel after the lag starts, rather than immediately before, it feels like it's almost half way through the lag that L-Canceling will have an effect, making it only 3/4 shorter than usual. Again, it might just be a placebo effect I'm feeling, but without L-Canceling it I always mistime the end of his BTT run and it leads me to believe that there is an effect, if only small.