Answers for Lasers?

[EZえん]

Hey guys, i have a very hard time consistently powershielding lasers as mewtwo, probably because his height, is there a better answer to lasers? Especially on FD where we can do so much damage to a falco once we get in, how do we go about winning the neutral vs lasers?

Some characters have pretty unique options like raptor boost and falcon shffl nair can dodge lasers. Does mewtwo have any thing like this?

 

[SuperShus]

dash into them, sheild them, or jump over them

if you can, just play against falco a lot and try random stuff

just remember lasers don't come out for a lot of frames so try to stay kinda close, don't run away from falco

 

[EZえん]

yeah, but mewtwo doesnt have many fast options to do in between laser hits, and shielding/getting hit while airborne are very bad positions to be in when getting lasered (as any character). Its better to CC them than it is to shield them, unless you expect to be hit by an aerial instead

 

[Wreckarooni]

The simplest solution is the same thing that Luigi mains do...

Just WD or WL in and attack (D-tilt or grab are great)

If you are within "laser distance" then a WD in > attack is faster than the SHFF laser itself. Plus there's the added benefit of them not being able to CC while trying to laser.

Even if the laser hits as you arrive near them you can just tank the hit (or CC it) and retaliate. Falcos are really predictable at low-mid levels, I highly recommend powershielding lasers as well. The timing is very lenient and reactable and Mewtwo has a pretty easy powershield window from the front.

 

[EZえん]

do i need to stand for powershielding as mewtwo? as samus/sheik/fox, i like to crouch and powershield and i get it about 9/10 times. but as mewtwo i seem to get poked most every time.

 

[Wreckarooni]

Crouching doesn't do anything for Mewtwo really since his hurtbox doesn't change much.

I have been told this and it seems to be true in practice, running PS and WD powershields advancing and retreating seem to have a larger frame window to get them. From the front Mewtwo actually has a pretty good disjoint on his digital shield. From the back not so much since his tail has to curl up and will get hit in transition.

Trigger tricking can make PS'ing much easier if you have trouble with the timing.

Something I find works against Falcos very well is WD in > buffer shield > Grab

Or you can Upsmash OoS if you overshoot, aerials OoS can be a bit too slow but Fair or Nair can be worth it

 

[EZえん]

i always disable light shield on that trigger lol, and ok ill try to practice running pshields with mewtwo. Also upsmash oos faster than nair? idk what frame it is

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[EZえん]

Fair oos being 11?

 

[Wreckarooni]

Usmash oos is ten frames just like nair/fair oos.

Except that Fair is not the same....

"aerials OoS can be a bit too slow but Fair or Nair can be worth it"

Notice how I mention Fair and Nair separate there kiddo, the point is even those are relatively slower than most top tier SH aerials. I was not directly comparing them to Upsmash OoS.

Other aerials such as Uair, Dair, and Bair are all way too slow and even if you're frame perfect on a SH Fair it's 11 frames not the same as Upsmash. And you probably won't be frame perfect....

DJC Fair takes even longer than 11 frames, which is what you'd want to do most of the time. Nair OoS doesn't really lead to much unless you catch them really slipping.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[ihasabuket]

PS is great and all but youre still letting falco dictate the pace that way. There are a few things you can do against a falco to get some control of the neutral.
One thing you can do is FJ(full jump) rising nair. Falco is a bit vulnerable when youre above him at that height because the only move that hits above him is upair; his FJ is so fast that he'll jump into the nair before his upair hitbox can come out. Be sure to mixup your spacing because falco can always antiair with uptilt. This is mostly to give him an incentive to stop jumping and lasering.
If you know how to shield drop you can always sit on the platform and charge SB. If he waits you get to charge your SB, if not you can shieldrop -> fair/upair punish.
This last thing is more for big stages and is a situational mixup. If youre outside his SHFFL range you can throw a baby SB to force him into shield or stagger his movement. If he lasers at the same time the laser will take you out of your SB throws long endlag animation. This is useful if you have a stock lead and you just need that extra credit %. Remember you can throw a baby SB in between falco's continuous SH lasers.

 

[ChivalRuse]

If you are having trouble power shielding, your next line of defense is shielding the laser as late as possible -> wavedash out. Depending on the range where you shield the initial laser, it will determine how safe wavedashing back/forward is (or indeed, whether Falco can hit you mid-wavedash with a dash attack or SHFFL'd aerial).

As mentioned, shielding a close laser -> rising fair oos can work to stuff certain approaches. But you have to be wary of Falco baiting your aerials out of shield and then punishing you by dash dancing around your hitboxes. I think full jumping over the laser and DJC nairing is worth using once in a blue moon as a mixup as well. You can always full jump empty land if they are wise to it, and probably get out unscathed.

 

[SuperShus]

PS is great and all but youre still letting falco dictate the pace that way.

I disagree with this on a fundamental level.
Some falcos will completely stop lasering if they get PSd too much.

 

[ihasabuket]

I disagree with this on a fundamental level.
Some falcos will completely stop lasering if they get PSd too much.

Well I guess it depends on the player, but if theyre aim is to make you shield when they SH laser then theyre dictating the pace of the match. There's a falco named Jam that tomahawks a lot if you play too much in your shield. Even if you do PS they'd have to be pretty close for you to convert off of a laser.

 

[ManXan]

Power shielding is crucial, it can really put Falco's to the test rather than let them approach for free or laser camp you. Learn to PS or WD OoS after you blocked a laser, don't really bother jumping on flatter stages because it'll just make things worse. I know a lot of Falco players who rely on lasering to make up for their lackluster neutral game so by eliminating this you may put yourself in an advantageous position.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[tauKhan]

Going to add one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet but crouching > sheilding lasers. The overall stun is the exact same but crouching lets you maintain all of your grounded options and a heathly sheild in exchange for the small amount of laser damage. You also get clearer visual cues for whrn stun finishes so it's easier to time your actions afterwards.

If the laser is even a little bit staled, it does 5 frames of hitlag + shield stun (3 + 2), but 7 frames of hitlag + hitstun (2 + 5) on crouch. My advice is to take one laser and shield the rest. Another point is that shield is available more often than crouch, you can shield on reaction when dashing etc.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[tauKhan]

Is there any other situation besides dashing where sheild but not crouch is available? Off of the top of my head, I can't think of any. Platforms I suppose?

Turn is the only one that comes to mind, but that doesn't really matter. I play only dash dancers, so I didn't think enough from Mewtwo's perspective I guess. If your main movement methods are wd and walk, crouching shouldn't be a problem.