Approaching with ZSS

[liteblade]

What have you guys found as the best way to approach with ZSS? It's the one part of my game I feel is really off, so I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on how to approach.

 

[Chuva]

I play a defensive/spacing game with paralyzers and Nairs, trying to capitalize on any hit confirms from them. I also dash grab when I see an opportunity (whiff punishes, predictable shields against charged paralyzers etc)

 

[Ripley]

I came here to pose this same question. So ill just join the party. I have been wondering the same thing. I find myself trying to close the gap quickly by doing the forward + A knee lunge. I like to close the gap quickly, but I'm thinking this move will be punishable if my opponent catches on. I'm not sure how to approach either, but I have been trying different methods to always keep the opponent guessing. Looking for more feedback.

Here is a video of my making a comeback after making a silly mistake (I'm kinda noobie). You can see I use that knee move a lot..

 

[Jaxas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a well spaced FF Nair is safe on block and a good setup for other attacks

 

[David Viran]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a well spaced FF Nair is safe on block and a good setup for other attacks

Yes it is that is why it is used a lot in high level play. A lot of characters Don't even have an aerial that is even safe on shield.

 

[DeLux]

I made about 35 minutes worth of video discussing these subjects lol

 

[Zero Suit Roxas]

I came here to pose this same question. So ill just join the party. I have been wondering the same thing. I find myself trying to close the gap quickly by doing the forward + A knee lunge. I like to close the gap quickly, but I'm thinking this move will be punishable if my opponent catches on. I'm not sure how to approach either, but I have been trying different methods to always keep the opponent guessing. Looking for more feedback.

Here is a video of my making a comeback after making a silly mistake (I'm kinda noobie). You can see I use that knee move a lot..

I prefer using Flip Jump than standard jumps to recover a horizontal distance or jump over my enemy. It's also a good way to edgeguard because it can negate second jumps (which annihilates Yoshi and Ness). I also think you should be in the air more often, since she plays a very nice air game. Your KO with Boost Kick is nice, and it's my favorite method of killing people. I usually bury people with Flip Jump before I do that so I can line up the kick with the opponent.

 

[coopreme]

What have you guys found as the best way to approach with ZSS? It's the one part of my game I feel is really off, so I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on how to approach.

So I see a lot of people just rushing in with dash attack but that is easy to punish. Don't do that unless you can time it to catch them right before they tech from a fall.

In the Air:

• I've had a lot of success with a rush to short hop paralyzer - followed up with d-tilt or fsmash
• also the short hop nair is a great approach (if you can time it) and occasionally a zair in for a mix up.

On the ground:

• Dash To opponent, immediately back roll and then grab
• If you read their shield I had some luck dashing/rolling past and pivot grabbing.

 

[DeLux]

So I see a lot of people just rushing in with dash attack but that is easy to punish. Don't do that unless you can time it to catch them right before they tech from a fall.

In the Air:

• I've had a lot of success with a rush to short hop paralyzer - followed up with d-tilt or fsmash
• also the short hop nair is a great approach (if you can time it) and occasionally a zair in for a mix up.

On the ground:

• Dash To opponent, immediately back roll and then grab
• If you read their shield I had some luck dashing/rolling past and pivot grabbing.

Question (s) -
What options does Zair cover that Nair does not?
What are the pros/cons of covering that option with Zair?

 

[LonelyJaguar]

I like to jump slightly behind the enemy to bait an upsmash or tilt etc. and then throw out side-b as a means of starting the match off with the first hit. Depending on their reaction to that, I can usually hit them with a dash attack pretty safely. Short hop nair is really good, too.

 

[retrofuture]

It's super hard for me to get the hang of, but a short hopped nair is the one of the quickest, most versatile attacks zerobaby has when it comes to putting the hurt to the gullywags. It can be sprinted forward, done in place, used while retreating, and it has almost no lag if done correctly. The thing that's tricky is figuring out the timing of all the different nair possibilities. Sometimes, unless they're right in front, you don't want to just do the nair as fast as possible, and you want the hurtbox to be out at the most inconvenient time for the enemy. If you try approaching with a nair a few times, and it isn't working, keep at it. It's a really delicate little flower of a move. If you fast fall a second early or late, it won't hit how you want it to hit.

 

[extremechiton]

my usual approach options:
1 paralyzer
2 short hop fair, or nair, or zair or bair
3 run jump, see response, : no response repeat,
4 run up grab
5 dash attack,

 

[Kesno]

Question (s) -
What options does Zair cover that Nair does not?
What are the pros/cons of covering that option with Zair?

What I've recently noticed (by recent I mean yesterday) that the hit from zair does two things. It messes with your opponent's spacing and it makes your opponent's recovery hard. If you time it right you can take their jump when you hit them and that's all she wrote. I did that to a little Mac off stage and he sank like a rock... like a really heavy rock. I never used zair much, so really what I can is that it mess with people's spacing and it takes your jump away if hit right.

 

[Kesno]

I made about 35 minutes worth of video discussing these subjects lol

Where might I find this video I'd love to get some more ideas on how to step up my gameplay.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Her dash attack is a dreadful approach option EXCEPT in situations where you are punishing their lag or where it is a guaranteed follow-up to a hit confirm. Never just run up to someone and hit A; it might work on CPUs or when online lag nullifies reaction times, but anyone who knows how to shield even half decently will make you pay for it.

I'm with Chuva here - SHFF Nairs and paralyzers until I see an opening. I like to bait out poor approaches with mix-ups - one of my favourites is spacing with RAR'd Bairs and then throwing in a B-reversed paralyzer instead of another Bair, which more or less has the same effect as a wavebounce. Heck, I'd just say make intelligent use of her B-reversed paralyzer in general; as long as you space it properly and don't overdo it, a lot of people just won't expect it.

 

[coopreme]

Question (s) -
What options does Zair cover that Nair does not?
What are the pros/cons of covering that option with Zair?

In approaching it's nice as a mixup with a bit more range. Also getting the tipper on the zair is satisfying.

off stage zair is a amazing poke.

 

[DeLux]

I don't understand in terms of mixup what options it covers is what I'm asking outside of poking off stage.

 

[dawgbowl]

When using SHFF Nair, do you prefer throwing out the Nair earlier so the whip animation is more stretched out (does it help?) or prefer waiting until well after the fast fall so the animation just comes out before landing.

Is one more effective than the other? Looking for some thoughts on this, haven't had too much success with the SHFF Nairs and looking to be more effective with it.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

If I'm just walling them out, I do SH > Nair > FF. I'm honestly not sure about which is more effective on the whole, but this way works for me.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

When using SHFF Nair, do you prefer throwing out the Nair earlier so the whip animation is more stretched out (does it help?) or prefer waiting until well after the fast fall so the animation just comes out before landing.

Is one more effective than the other? Looking for some thoughts on this, haven't had too much success with the SHFF Nairs and looking to be more effective with it.

The hitbox stays pretty long so you can throw it out shortly before fastfalling. Do it late enough so the hitbox stays until you land but early enough to use the whole hitbox duration.
The hardest part about SHFF Nair isn't the timing imo, it's the spacing.

 

[pikanag]

how exactly are you doing this short hop , fast fall, nair?
are you short hopping, then fast falling, then nair? when i try to do that i fall too fast to get a nair out. or are you doing short hop, nair, then fast fall?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

how exactly are you doing this short hop , fast fall, nair?
are you short hopping, then fast falling, then nair? when i try to do that i fall too fast to get a nair out. or are you doing short hop, nair, then fast fall?

Short hop, when you are shortly before the point where you can fast fall do the nair, then fast fall. The whole thing is pretty fast.
You could look at pro videos because you can easily see when they fast fall (the little flash).

 

[DeLux]

What you do after the nair goes a long way towards how effective nair ultimately will be.

 

[pichuthedk]

Well I'm kinda wondering now how well we can murder peoples shields with continuous harass from SH FF RETREATING Nairs on Shield Couple with SH instant Zairs, I literally just thought of this now and am curious how fast we can get the zair out if we do it immediately after jumping further back.

Although I'm sure I am underestimating how fast shields recover in this game again...at the very least they might instantly drop shield after you land a retreating SH FF Nair.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Well I'm kinda wondering now how well we can murder peoples shields with continuous harass from SH FF RETREATING Nairs on Shield Couple with SH instant Zairs, I literally just thought of this now and am curious how fast we can get the zair out if we do it immediately after jumping further back.

Although I'm sure I am underestimating how fast shields recover in this game again...at the very least they might instantly drop shield after you land a retreating SH FF Nair.

Pretty much your last part. All they need to do is space for a moment and the shield will be back up.
But it's worth some testing nontheless.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah see these things I am saying and thinking of, maybe they aren't as bad as I feel xD. Perhaps there is hope for me yet?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Yeah see these things I am saying and thinking off, maybe they aren't as bad as I feel xD. Perhaps there is hope for me yet?

Well I'm here as well and I'm pretty sure I'm far worse than you are.
There is always hope because we can do it

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