B.A.M.
Smash Lord
We all know ASC is our top damage dealer; if done perfectly we could dish out 30+% with this baby. When shield canceled we have some great mindgames with it, heck sometimes if we condition well enough, we get a grab. However one of the things that we Sonics have come to realize, is that a properly placed ASCSC can give us a really safe way to whittle down a shield. Another thing that we all came to realize is ASCSC> aerial is AMAZING, and if you havent been utilizing it, then you need to now. Why? Because with the ability to escape, bait and hold our spin dashes, attacks that would beat our spin dash attempts head on become null and void (if you are playing smart that is). One thing that does get us from time to time is shield and grabs (instant pivot grabs are VERY effective).
This (imo) is where ASCs come in. They allow us to prod at people shield relatively safely, and allow to run away with a jump cancel or spring at anytime. After a couple ASCs, our spin dashes start to shield poke and people are often forced to take another escape route vs our spin dashes and its break neck speed; escape options that can be easily punished with our spin dash. What is even more amazing, is that we have the ability to take down a shield often in one ASC approach. How? by utilizing ASCSC>aerial.
ASCSC>aerial is incredible because right after we ASC through our opponent, we can opt to Shield cancel immediately into an aerial to poke through the shield. Ive always loved utilizing this; ASCSC> nair stays out forever and usually ends up shield poking and hitting with the soft hit to setup a grab or DA. When done immediately, ASCSC cross up> uair can shield stab or leave us in a prime position; right behind our opponent who has a dwindling shield. Also because of its nice horizontal hitbox, we can just DI away if we dont want to be near the opponent as we hit their shield. ASCSC cross up> bairs can often get us a shield poke bair for the a kill, and is one of my personal favorites vs tall/ big characters. ASCSC cross up> retreating fair goes through some of the sturdiest of shields.
Im writing this because Im all about my fellow Sonic mains. Ive been here from the beginning, starting as a lurker to where I am now. I was here when Winning Steak was born haha. I am proud of our character board because I feel we made so much progress as a whole. Through brawl's vicissitudes, we constantly risen, and it all came from players who simply love the character.
I truly believe we can rise this character from his current standpoint, and I want to definitely help our new members join in the crusade.
In any case I made this thread to talk specifically about ASCSC and what this safe shield pressure means for our characters metagame. I also would love to start utilizing this thread for showcasing some frame traps that work for Sonic. I know a ton of Sonics feel hes all gimmicks and they dont know how to get the 'assured' damage so maybe we can all help out.
LET THE DISCUSSION BEGIN
Basic Frame traps
Okay. Lets start off with the definition of frame traps if you peeps dont already know.
A frame trap is a sequence of moves where the first move's frame advantage (or disadvantage) plus the startup frames (not counting the first active frame) for the follow-up move creates a window (the frame trap) where the opponent, even if they perform a move to react, will be stuffed (or even counterhit) because the active frames of their move will not come out before the active frames of the second move of the frame trap.
Okay. So if you have been playing Brawl long enough, you realize a ton of ways we get good strings isnt from just straight links. For the most part we get our damaging strings from Frame Traps ( although our character can just opt for ASC reads due to the damage they give). From Falco and his amazing uair frame trap (Falco gets basically any aerial for free) to DK bair> uair there are tons of frame traps that allow us to keep punishing our opponents. We actually have a couple cool frame traps so lets start with the move that makes the majority of them possible. Uair.
Uair: 5 frames (first hit) frame 14 (second hit)
Ends: Frame 38
Landing frames: 22
hitbox frames (1st hit): 5-7 invincible on frame 6???
hitbox frames: 14-16
Iono why the autocancel frames arent in our frame data but whatever. i believe its < 10 frames for sure ( I will get the actual numbers so people can understand how to look for these things themselves).
So anyways we should all know by now at the very least majority of ADs are about 39-49 frames long. If you take all that data and start the AD around active frames for the second hitbox you realize that we have a ton of frame advantage if they AD that particular hitbox.
Uair happens to be one of the largest disjointed uairs in the game. Due to that fact and our good air speed, a lot of times people are limited to just AD. So okay we get that so what can we do with it?
SH FF Uair Frame Traps
For the most part an ADed sh ff uair traps an opponent into to these options:
dtilt
utilt
ftilt
jab
DA
Basically, it frame traps its to a ton of things. Lets break them down.
Dtilt: Its frame advantage on hit, often allows us at low-mid percents to reset the situation by using uair again due to dtilt itself being a frame trap. tipper dtilt acts the same as ftilts option except you have more frame advantage.
Utilt: its large vertical hitbox makes the timing on this frame trap much easier. It does 14% and puts the opponent into another juggle situation
Ftilt: Awesome for those who good with their landings ( b-reversing, ff appropriate times, DI away) as it has a farther horizontal hitbox than any of his tilts. Can set up tech chases and good edgeguarding situations.
Grab: our grab game is awesome. Seeing as we are very strong under our opponents, uthrow and fthrow are awesome to maintain control of the match. Oh and they definitely do some damage with our pummels.
Jab: This one is very lenient in terms of timing the trap. If you end up catching them a bit in the air, it could potentially set up a meaty DA
DA: Now this is probably our easiest frame trap to use due to its awesome range. It usually puts us in an advantageous position, provided you dont hit the opponent with the second to last part of DA (the part that gives them an aerial for free).
Thoughts? Anything you would want me to do differently? Let me know. My plan is to hopefully get to some underused kill move traps we have done.
VIDEOS OF THESE TRAPS WILL BE POSTED BY NEXT WEEK.
This (imo) is where ASCs come in. They allow us to prod at people shield relatively safely, and allow to run away with a jump cancel or spring at anytime. After a couple ASCs, our spin dashes start to shield poke and people are often forced to take another escape route vs our spin dashes and its break neck speed; escape options that can be easily punished with our spin dash. What is even more amazing, is that we have the ability to take down a shield often in one ASC approach. How? by utilizing ASCSC>aerial.
ASCSC>aerial is incredible because right after we ASC through our opponent, we can opt to Shield cancel immediately into an aerial to poke through the shield. Ive always loved utilizing this; ASCSC> nair stays out forever and usually ends up shield poking and hitting with the soft hit to setup a grab or DA. When done immediately, ASCSC cross up> uair can shield stab or leave us in a prime position; right behind our opponent who has a dwindling shield. Also because of its nice horizontal hitbox, we can just DI away if we dont want to be near the opponent as we hit their shield. ASCSC cross up> bairs can often get us a shield poke bair for the a kill, and is one of my personal favorites vs tall/ big characters. ASCSC cross up> retreating fair goes through some of the sturdiest of shields.
Im writing this because Im all about my fellow Sonic mains. Ive been here from the beginning, starting as a lurker to where I am now. I was here when Winning Steak was born haha. I am proud of our character board because I feel we made so much progress as a whole. Through brawl's vicissitudes, we constantly risen, and it all came from players who simply love the character.
I truly believe we can rise this character from his current standpoint, and I want to definitely help our new members join in the crusade.
In any case I made this thread to talk specifically about ASCSC and what this safe shield pressure means for our characters metagame. I also would love to start utilizing this thread for showcasing some frame traps that work for Sonic. I know a ton of Sonics feel hes all gimmicks and they dont know how to get the 'assured' damage so maybe we can all help out.
LET THE DISCUSSION BEGIN
Basic Frame traps
Okay. Lets start off with the definition of frame traps if you peeps dont already know.
A frame trap is a sequence of moves where the first move's frame advantage (or disadvantage) plus the startup frames (not counting the first active frame) for the follow-up move creates a window (the frame trap) where the opponent, even if they perform a move to react, will be stuffed (or even counterhit) because the active frames of their move will not come out before the active frames of the second move of the frame trap.
Okay. So if you have been playing Brawl long enough, you realize a ton of ways we get good strings isnt from just straight links. For the most part we get our damaging strings from Frame Traps ( although our character can just opt for ASC reads due to the damage they give). From Falco and his amazing uair frame trap (Falco gets basically any aerial for free) to DK bair> uair there are tons of frame traps that allow us to keep punishing our opponents. We actually have a couple cool frame traps so lets start with the move that makes the majority of them possible. Uair.
Uair: 5 frames (first hit) frame 14 (second hit)
Ends: Frame 38
Landing frames: 22
hitbox frames (1st hit): 5-7 invincible on frame 6???
hitbox frames: 14-16
Iono why the autocancel frames arent in our frame data but whatever. i believe its < 10 frames for sure ( I will get the actual numbers so people can understand how to look for these things themselves).
So anyways we should all know by now at the very least majority of ADs are about 39-49 frames long. If you take all that data and start the AD around active frames for the second hitbox you realize that we have a ton of frame advantage if they AD that particular hitbox.
Uair happens to be one of the largest disjointed uairs in the game. Due to that fact and our good air speed, a lot of times people are limited to just AD. So okay we get that so what can we do with it?
SH FF Uair Frame Traps
For the most part an ADed sh ff uair traps an opponent into to these options:
dtilt
utilt
ftilt
jab
DA
Basically, it frame traps its to a ton of things. Lets break them down.
Dtilt: Its frame advantage on hit, often allows us at low-mid percents to reset the situation by using uair again due to dtilt itself being a frame trap. tipper dtilt acts the same as ftilts option except you have more frame advantage.
Utilt: its large vertical hitbox makes the timing on this frame trap much easier. It does 14% and puts the opponent into another juggle situation
Ftilt: Awesome for those who good with their landings ( b-reversing, ff appropriate times, DI away) as it has a farther horizontal hitbox than any of his tilts. Can set up tech chases and good edgeguarding situations.
Grab: our grab game is awesome. Seeing as we are very strong under our opponents, uthrow and fthrow are awesome to maintain control of the match. Oh and they definitely do some damage with our pummels.
Jab: This one is very lenient in terms of timing the trap. If you end up catching them a bit in the air, it could potentially set up a meaty DA
DA: Now this is probably our easiest frame trap to use due to its awesome range. It usually puts us in an advantageous position, provided you dont hit the opponent with the second to last part of DA (the part that gives them an aerial for free).
Thoughts? Anything you would want me to do differently? Let me know. My plan is to hopefully get to some underused kill move traps we have done.
VIDEOS OF THESE TRAPS WILL BE POSTED BY NEXT WEEK.
