Balloon Blast Matchup Thread #12 - Peach

[Zinoto]

Matchup Ratio: +1

Stages to Utilize Against Peach: ​

Neutrals: /
Counterpicks: /
Bans: :brinstar:s1:

Alright, time to get back on track with the MU discussions! This week is the Peach Matchup, a threat that, with metaknight now being banned, we will be seeing a lot more of.

It is important that you read this! Every first post by a user in a Matchup Thread is encouraged to have at least a couple of sentences of information, alongside a ratio. Posts may not be considered for ratio and summary solidifying without these from the poster at some point in the thread, and keeping them towards the beginning helps keep discussion tidy. You have two weeks to share information that you feel is helpful in the Matchup, as well as debate with others. Compelling arguments are a must people, I expect any joking and trolls to be at a minimum.

Ideas for discussion...

-Both Characters Ground/Air Game Against Each Other-
-Moves To Avoid And How To Avoid Them-
-Diddy's Moves To Utilize In The Matchup-
-Personal Strategies To Help With The Matchup-
-Stage Discussion For Starters, Counterpicks, And Bans-


Note: This Matchup has been discussed in the past. If you wish to pull content from previous discussions that are still relevant in the current Metagame, then feel free to do so. This includes posts that are both yours and not yours.

This thread will be posted in the Peach boards to encourage more discussion as well.​

 

[Zinoto]

The Peach Matchup is up!!!!

Let's GO!!!!

 

[vato_break]

i suck vs peach, posting so i remember to look at this thread.. >_>

 

[Sails]

Throwing a banana at Peach in the air when she's floating means she is almost always going to be sent to the ground. Jump -> toss bananas and it makes this matchup a lot easier. Also, forward air. Lots of that. Yours beats out hers.

(Out the door, may post more later)

Edit: Also, good stuff Zinoto. Glad to see these back up and running. Wish I had it in me to do it myself...I can do the matchup ratio images for the main thread too, if you like. Just poke me via PM or Email (Gigahedgehog@gmail.com) if I'm late on it!

 

[vato_break]

Here's a vid of a peach i played last tourney http://youtu.be/_KdGHiR3ARg

There are a few ways to stop floating: Aerials, sideB, SH banana toss and peanuts. Peach can get rid of peanuts by commiting to dairs but, when peach does this she can be punished, you can also get her to commit to a dair without shooting peanuts via sheild cancel. Dair is the only annoying thing in the MU for me because i'm not sure what to do once i do actually get daired, i usually try to upsmash OoS or uptilt but, that didn't always work for me.(i think you're suppose to either SDI well and punish...but idk)

I also think crawling a lot would be useful in this matchup because it would force lower floats in general which is more punishable. Getting back to the stage also is kinda hard but, you just have to mixit up well.

i think learning to instant throw bomb ombs back at peach would be useful too.. :I

I think this MU is a slight advantage for diddy...but idk.

 

[Zinoto]

I actually secondary specifically for when I have to play the match up.

To start, I think the matchup is pretty much even, but not necessarily in favor (if it were to be in one's favor, it's ours). As I make it a point to never let catch me on the ground, and honestly it isn't that hard. air game completely trumps our air game, but our ground game trumps hers. The player who can adapt to the others "comfort" area the fastest usually comes out on top.

This match up becomes like 10x easier if you change your goal from trying to trip to fighting her in the air. You CAN contest in the air, but you have to choose what you do wisely. Fair will absolutely **** her if used properly. Her airdodge is pretty bad as well, so more than likely peach's will dair when they are launched in the air. Even though bananas don't trip her if she's in the air, they have enough hitstun so that you can followup with another hit. This is some good general stuff to know about the matchup.

Alright, so time for the nitty gritty. can do some nasty stuff to at early percents, so at early percents be careful of her dairs. If the is good, they will more than likely play fast so they can keep you from building up momentum. This is the first step to winning this matchup. Second, shooting peanuts and punishing when lands does NOT work at higher levels of play. You will get wrecked by a good if you abide solely by this strategy. It is really good to knock out the air, but don't rely on it. Next, TILT YOUR SHIELD!!! shield is so good at blocking dairs, but you have to move your shield around to do it. Next, love to jab when they land after aerials so expect a jab after a fair on shield, dair, nair, etc. Learning to insta-throw turnips will come in handy too.

For stages, I usually aim for as a starter, but doesn't do too bad either. Your immediate ban should be :brinstar:, if you've never seen a on that stage, you should keep it that way. I personally don't like s1: in this match up because she can combo pretty well off of the walls.

On paper, has an advantage over , but practically i think we have more tools to deal with shenanigans, than she has to deal with us.

Both characters can keep up with each other pretty well, but has to use her fair to rack up damage a lot (which is a primary kill move), while we have our smashes, utilt, ftilt, fair, and uair all of hich can kill pretty well. Also both characters can rack up damage pretty well. I'd say this match up is even or 55-45 Diddy (+1 ish range).




Here's a match between me and Mikey Lenetia (Top 5 Peach) from a recent tourney. The end result was me taking the set 3-1: Grand Finals - Zinoto vs. Mikey Lenetia

 

[RoanYagyu]

Umm...vato....Bom omb's can not be catched once they leave peach's hand...so if you were to attempt such a thing the only thing that could happen is that you airdodge through the bom omb, or get hit by it... So I would recommend avoiding trying such a thing :X

And that's really interesting that you use Peach for combating other Diddy's Zino, as I have the same thing in mind , since I also second Peach (tho I do not go to tourneys often atm due to lack of a ride so I avoid posting much here since it would be mostly theorycraft ) Tho some things I do know of is that you can SDI (preferably using the double stick method) through Peach's dair and be able to punish her for it if she hits you with the beginning of the move. Peach can perform a banana>turnip lock (just like a double banana lock) so be careful of that. And also if she unfloats during an aerial and there is a banana near her, when she unfloats she will end up picking up the banana , no matter how late in the aerial she is in.

 

[Zinoto]

Tho some things I do know of is that you can SDI (preferably using the double stick method) through Peach's dair and be able to punish her for it if she hits you with the beginning of the move.

I forgot to mention that, but this is really useful. I SDI out of Peach's dair and almost get an uair kill because of it in the second game of the match I posted. It's such a good way to punish her dair.

 

[vato_break]

oh i thought you could for some reason(not that i've ever done it) lol. i'll keep that in mind. I think it important to keep in mind how the peach recovers as well to get some potential gimps. Does diddys upair beat peaches dair as she's falling down? would barrels vs a falling dair be good for early ceiling kills?

 

[Dark.Pch]

I rather hear more of what people here think they can do or what works so I can correctly you on somethings and just make a nice rundown on this match up. When all the diddys are done putting thier imput, let me know.

 

[Nicole]

if the diddy doesnt really understand how to combat peach, they will get rocked.

if the peach knows how to use bananas and is really good with items this matchup becomes ALOOOTTTT easier for peach. and by that i mean it basically becomes even. if the peach isn't that good with bananas and items then its diddy's favor.

that being said peach shoudln't be floating in the air much in this matchup cause diddy can really easily fair/bair/peanut gun/banana her out of the air and follow up with whatever he wants, really. SH dair is good, groundfloating aerials while hovering over a banana is good too because this will pick the banana up off the ground while protecting peach (gf fairs are really good for this imo). peach actually has an easier time getting around the "banana on ground banana in hand peanuts in the air" camping business that diddy does because of her float (probably the only time she should really be using it much). she can appraoch from an angle that diddy can't really do that much about, however, diddy doesn't have to camp in the slightest to win this matchup and combat peach, so it's not THAT helpful. still good though. she has to do a little baiting of course, or else a good diddy will just fair her.

anyway, diddy's defensive options are ******** good and his shield/spotdodge/airdodge are all fabulous and make it hard for peach to hit him. things can get pretty ugly for peach if she loses the lead significantly. she can gimp him decently with the combination of turnips, edgehogs, and aerials, but a good diddy shoudlnt be getting gimped much (as is true for most all characters in brawl, honestly). they both have a hard time killing each other, however diddy has the setups that peach lacks.

50:50 if the peach is really good with items.
60:40 diddy if she isn't.
60:40 peach if diddy doesnt know what he's doing (like to attack her when she's in the air and stuff)

my very half-***** two cents

 

[SaveMeJebus]

F-air, jump banana throw and side b is pretty much all you need in this match up.

 

[Player-1]

it kind of pains me to say this....but



I kind of agree with jebus




gonna go throw my laptop off a balcony now.

 

[TreK]

Leon likes to play his Peach against me, for some reason (me knowing the marth matchup 10 times better is one of them I guess), but I don't think I have any video of a set with him. Maybe this weekend, I'll let you know.

If you're far from her, popgun forces a reaction and you will most likely win the situation that comes out of it.
If you aren't... make sure there's a banana you can use nearby when that happens. Otherwise your only options will be aerials and usmash oos and Peach can work around them (Nicole's playstyle is awesome for this o.o)

The key to this matchup, imo at least, is to tank. Both characters have an extremely hard time landing a kill, but for diddy it's because he lacks power : he can set kills up easily. Peach cannot, she just has 2 potential kill moves : usmash and fair, fair being stale most of the time even her nair becomes more dangerous.
So don't let her get in or guess your landing spot. I often find myself planking as Diddy just to land the most damage I can land before I die.

If you really want numbers, I'd say +0, or 55-45 if you like it old school.

 

[Zinoto]

Any last tips or advice before we close shop and move to the next character?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok, I think I heard enough of what diddys think work and etc. I'll say my piece on this based on what I read here tonight.

 

[Player-1]

good read.

 

[Dark.Pch]

So far everything that I have read in this thread is based on average peach play and/or one that does not know what they are doing.

Throwing a banana at Peach in the air when she's floating means she is almost always going to be sent to the ground. Jump -> toss bananas and it makes this matchup a lot easier. Also, forward air. Lots of that. Yours beats out hers.

(Out the door, may post more later)

Edit: Also, good stuff Zinoto. Glad to see these back up and running. Wish I had it in me to do it myself...I can do the matchup ratio images for the main thread too, if you like. Just poke me via PM or Email (Gigahedgehog@gmail.com) if I'm late on it!

Sail, I thought you would have learn better then to say something like this after playing me. Are talking about basic Peach play or one that actually knows what they are doing?

That typical Toss nanner in the air, I can easily Nair it upon landing and catch it. You are giving me a free naner. And that is something you really don't wanna do if a peach is sick with it. Peach has a good naner game. Mix that with her pressure game (really if I corner you) and you are in for a world of hurt.

Peach should not be in the air alot dont blank against diddy. The fast air move she has when facing diddy is her nair. And that is three frames. I have to be really close to hit with it since it has lil range. It have more if she not slant her body while doing it. So if peach is a point blank and wants to Fair or be in the air, yea, fair her. Se can't do anything about it.

Now if Her back is turned and she is going in with it or is at range and does the move, its a better option for her and get beat your range. it's fast and have good range. The move also pushes Peach a lil towards the opponent in general. Do its a great move to space and hit with. The worst thing that can happen when I do a bair is I trade with your fair.

Upclose dairs are good for jab pressure mix ups. But not to just be thrown out there. Your fair can just hit her out of it. Same with your naner and peanut gun.

Here's a vid of a peach i played last tourney http://youtu.be/_KdGHiR3ARg

There are a few ways to stop floating: Aerials, sideB, SH banana toss and peanuts. Peach can get rid of peanuts by commiting to dairs but, when peach does this she can be punished, you can also get her to commit to a dair without shooting peanuts via sheild cancel. Dair is the only annoying thing in the MU for me because i'm not sure what to do once i do actually get daired, i usually try to upsmash OoS or uptilt but, that didn't always work for me.(i think you're suppose to either SDI well and punish...but idk)

I also think crawling a lot would be useful in this matchup because it would force lower floats in general which is more punishable. Getting back to the stage also is kinda hard but, you just have to mixit up well.

i think learning to instant throw bomb ombs back at peach would be useful too.. :I

I think this MU is a slight advantage for diddy...but idk.

Ok, Now to stop her floating with she dairs, your options that you stated are good. But look at what I just said. If she is coming at you with dairs. If She is not near you and start floating/coming at you with floating dairs, that a stupid thing for her to be doing. Cause all these options will just **** her. You OBVIOUSLY see it coming She has no fast ranged air moves in front of her to cover her self from deep. She is in the danger zone. You can pin her down easy.

Now if She is floating to you and a few feet away. Naners and peanut gun is not such a good idea. For I can Nair the peanut to catch or break it. And I can do droping nairs out of float to catch the naner as I explained before.

See? This one example of what I said at the start of my post. That right there was just based on average gameplay on Peach or one that does not know what to do/her options. You thought that Peach would just Dair the peanuts while floating to stop that. That is not her only options to stop them. And it is by far her worst one. For if the peanut hits her above her chest, she gets hit. Peach is open on her dair if she is hit above her waist. Nair is what she should be doing to stop Peanuts. More protection, and easy to cancel out or catch.

As for aerials and side-B, Diddy wins that No matter what I do if I float like this. But I already explained this already so look up again if anything. Time if tricky but her nair can beat his side-b. But if anything, I since I see a side B and I am not throwing any moves, I would just drop from my float and block, then counter out of my shield. But if I already have a move out (which would be stupid at this point) yea, this is a good thing to do. Also be aware that spaced fairs>side-B. So if I do like a lil pressure min up and then float back founded to a Fair to space or break away> a spaced fair will beat that move.

Crawling is a BAD idea if you are trying to force low spaced moves. You don't even wanna her to be ground floating on you. or even be small inches off the ground. Think about it. I can touch the floor faster and move/fight faster. All my air moves auto cancel dude. If I am floating a lil higher I won't touch the floor that fast. Which can give you a lil more time to react and break away from my assault. if She is ground float and has a naner, its even worst. I can use all my air attacks while floating with a an item in hand. and all my moves auto cancel. So imagine that with a naner game from me and then mixes with pressure and ground floated air moves. Yea..........................Not pretty. So lets like, avoid doing that yea?

Remember my moves all auto cancel. So if I dair and you Peanut cancel. Can just land a move right away. Now if you do this and I hit your shield. My jab mix ups and pressure begins. And you do not want that. I have frame advantage on your shield. You would really wanna avoid being in the shield vs Peach. So it is Best not do do this.

And to note on SDI. if I drop early or short hop her dair, I get a free uptilt and sometimes nair. SDI is only good if Peach wants to go for a chain of it or she She does not drop in the middle or the attack. Otherwise, I get a free uptilt/nair. Upsmash as well if The player reacts fast enough and follows the DI. (and yes it would kill you)

oh i thought you could for some reason(not that i've ever done it) lol. i'll keep that in mind. I think it important to keep in mind how the peach recovers as well to get some potential gimps. Does diddys upair beat peaches dair as she's falling down? would barrels vs a falling dair be good for early ceiling kills?

Its hard to gimp Peach if she recovers low. But if I am high. A peach should usually F-B twice to get to the center of the stage, then work on landing. Platforms help with this. otherwise, her best Bet is to recover low. Even meta knight has a hard time killing her or gimping Peach is she recovers low smart. So imagine diddy.

if I throw my dair first, his upair will not beat it. Best wait for the dair, and right when it ends, you go in and upair her.

The barrel is random. I it wot hit me right away. I would usually beat the barrel and then have time to react to the one flying around. Ever way you are gonna be lest open. best not try to. Not worth the risk.

F-air, jump banana throw and side b is pretty much all you need in this match up.

Diddys that tried this I beat the **** out of them.

Leon likes to play his Peach against me, for some reason (me knowing the marth matchup 10 times better is one of them I guess), but I don't think I have any video of a set with him. Maybe this weekend, I'll let you know.

If you're far from her, popgun forces a reaction and you will most likely win the situation that comes out of it.
If you aren't... make sure there's a banana you can use nearby when that happens. Otherwise your only options will be aerials and usmash oos and Peach can work around them (Nicole's playstyle is awesome for this o.o)

The key to this matchup, imo at least, is to tank. Both characters have an extremely hard time landing a kill, but for diddy it's because he lacks power : he can set kills up easily. Peach cannot, she just has 2 potential kill moves : usmash and fair, fair being stale most of the time even her nair becomes more dangerous.
So don't let her get in or guess your landing spot. I often find myself planking as Diddy just to land the most damage I can land before I die.

If you really want numbers, I'd say +0, or 55-45 if you like it old school.

Her fair being stale. Thats a Player problem. not a CHARACTER problem. Big difference. if you play a Peach that uses her fair once every 7-9 attacks, that move will be fresh and ready to kill. So lets drop this "fair will be state all the time" idea. if it is, its the players fault. Now if we are gonna talk about high level play and being smart, Lets go by when a Peach keeps that move fresh. And yes, she has many ways on doing do. Also her bair kills well. alone with her uptilt. Short hop dairs to uptilt/upsmash is also good to end a stock.

To get a nanner is not that hard. if one is on the floor and I go to get it while you try as well, I can ground float infront of the nanner and then hit you. Then drop the float and she will pick it up. Does not matter at what point of the move it is. All I have to do is let go of jump and she grabs it. Then from there I can start my nanner game and I now have more set ups to kill you. the thing is my set ups are more dangerous then yours.

nanner game + mix up + gound floating + pressure + frame advantage on shield + Using air moves with items in hand= Dead chimp. And I have many ways to approach and get in. And I have yet to go on about her turnips ans how they can even be used as set ups. And If if I link her turnips with all the other stuff, you are really gonna have a hard time.

And don't try to plank me. Not gonna work. im gonna snipe you and you die. Did it to a few diddys that tried. and when you get snipe and forced to up-B, you are in trouble vs Peach. And one turnip Zdrop off the up-B and you are dead.

Basic gameplay= diddy wins. I feel it is too easy for you to evade and get away with alot of stuff. also so easy to hit Peach.

Top Level- Peach wins. Not hard to get in, and once she does, smart pressure and mix ups **** him over. And He is in danger when coming back. it's best he recovers high. if he tries to recover low, one zdrop and that is his stock. Diddy has no options at all oos to stop me. All he can only side step or roll. Thats it. And if I can make that read, You are done. I actually control where you have to go in terms of evading. And for real talk, side stepping vs peach is a bad idea vs her pressure game. so your only save option to even get away from it all is to roll. if you are in a corner, you only have one option, and that is to roll back. me knowing this, I make you roll back and punish. Any grabs I get is to knock you off stage. And try to keep you in the corner as much as possible. till you die.

As diddy you are gonna want to be center stage as much as possible. And have one naner infront of you. And one in your hand. If not then at least one naner in front of you and be read to counter air long distance floating or air assaults you might catch with your gun or fair. Limit getting cornered as Punch as possible. Gives you more breathing if you are forced to roll.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Top Level- Peach wins.

Troll has spoken.

Can we put this as +1 Diddy yet?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Troll has spoken.

Can we put this as +1 Diddy yet?

More like a smart player who does not sit behind a computer and actually goes to tournaments. And researches his character and match ups. You need to stop hating so much and actually realize this character is better then that weak image you have that you just bring yourself to let go.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Says the guy who consistently fails to prove everybody wrong aka consistenly proves himself wrong. If that's what "actually going to tourneys" entitles then you're sure doing an amazing job.

And funny enough, I know this match-up fairly well, despite what you think. Some people have the capability to understand a match-up without having to play it. That's what we call intelligence, foreign concept to you, I know. Too bad I've watched a Diddy player who is far better than any Diddy you've ever beaten beating a Peach player far beyond your capability plenty of times. I know how this match-up plays out because I've seen it on various occasion WITHOUT THE OBVIOUS BIAS YOU HAVE. Needless to say, it was always the Diddy Kong that proved victorious and it wasn't because the Peach wasn't that good or because the Diddy was amazing [for example Leon is a better player than Lp yet he loses to him all the time as Peach].

You can lie to yourself all you want about your character and keep on living in a fantasy world where she beats Olimar, Diddy, ICs etc. Perhaps that's why you fail to deliver when it matters - because there's such huge disproportion between what you expect from your character and from what she's actually capeable of. If you feel like making a joke of yourself by claiming X and then prove the opposite of it constantly, then go ahead and keep on doing what you're doing. It won't change the fact that this match-up isn't - can't possibly be - in Peaches favor. All practical and realistical reasoning clearly points towards this match-up being +1 in Diddy's favor. And if you quit refusing to accept reality you may actually understand that people can disagree with you without being trolls or trying to attack you.

It's so blatantly obvious how much you're emotionally attached to your character that you don't even have to try arguing my points. It'd be much better for you if you tried to understand what people tell you for once.

 

[Player-1]

Top level peach I definitely don't see this being in peach's favor. I think it's even at top level

 

[Dark.Pch]

Says the guy who consistently fails to prove everybody wrong aka consistenly proves himself wrong. If that's what "actually going to tourneys" entitles then you're sure doing an amazing job.

And funny enough, I know this match-up fairly well, despite what you think. Some people have the capability to understand a match-up without having to play it. That's what we call intelligence, foreign concept to you, I know. Too bad I've watched a Diddy player who is far better than any Diddy you've ever beaten beating a Peach player far beyond your capability plenty of times. I know how this match-up plays out because I've seen it on various occasion WITHOUT THE OBVIOUS BIAS YOU HAVE. Needless to say, it was always the Diddy Kong that proved victorious and it wasn't because the Peach wasn't that good or because the Diddy was amazing [for example Leon is a better player than Lp yet he loses to him all the time as Peach].

You can lie to yourself all you want about your character and keep on living in a fantasy world where she beats Olimar, Diddy, ICs etc. Perhaps that's why you fail to deliver when it matters - because there's such huge disproportion between what you expect from your character and from what she's actually capeable of. If you feel like making a joke of yourself by claiming X and then prove the opposite of it constantly, then go ahead and keep on doing what you're doing. It won't change the fact that this match-up isn't - can't possibly be - in Peaches favor. All practical and realistical reasoning clearly points towards this match-up being +1 in Diddy's favor. And if you quit refusing to accept reality you may actually understand that people can disagree with you without being trolls or trying to attack you.

It's so blatantly obvious how much you're emotionally attached to your character that you don't even have to try arguing my points. It'd be much better for you if you tried to understand what people tell you for once.

Fail to prove anything. All you do is say "no, this is wrong" and back up nothing. Unlike you I have states and bring them up everything I say wether something is right or wrong. Unlike you I done all that I have said even against top players and know what has worked and does not work. Unlike you I actually have the experience head on. Not sitting back and watching.

And You think your experience of sitting back and watch makes you better then a person that plays it? Let me give you a lil example.

lets say all Lucarios think that they can uptilt out of shield when Peach Dairs. You want all lucarios do it. Even top Lucarios, and Peach gets hit every time. So You think an options to hit Peach when she dairs is to uptilt and it is legit. But all these lucarios and Peach do not know that it takes 7 frames to drop the shield Then I thing another 7 or 6 frames for the move to be out. That is 13 frames. Now peach can just do a dropping nair to hit Lucario when he tries this. or drop to a Jab. That will hit lucario everytime. Now with this option lucario now knows he can not hit Peach out of her Dair OoS. Cause it will lead to this if he tries.

if this is too much for you, here is a simple example:

I recently learn by doing my homework and testing out more things, her nair on shield is NOT safe. I tried to Nair DDD on his shield and then Jab jump. And I would get grabbed. And this had been happening for years. I thought it was me mis spacing. (which in a way it is. I space, he can't grab me, and I would land the jab. Not at a good distance with her nair. I can't jab him. I get grabbed. reason for this cause the move does not ned so soon as I thought. My opponent has a nice window or frames they can move before me if I go to trying to hit shield>Jab. I only now nair shield if I feel he would try to grab uptilt me. So I thing do a dair ro a falling nair. But if he shield my falling Nair, I can not Jab him. I get grabbed. This applied for the rest of the cast. I have to to an evasive tatic

Lil simple if you cant understand that one. If I nair Marths shield, He can up-B me before I can shield. if I fair hos shield I can block the up-B before it hits.

But I bet you a troll like yourself did not know that. And I beat you alot of people in the community, 100's did not know this ether. So You sitting here and watching people do things without knowing their true options or frames means nothing. When alot of people even at high levels don't know alot think on what they can and cant do.

You dont EVER explain anything, you dont DO anything. Just run the mouth. So Then you go on and insulting me. You serious? With no stats? And i dont care who you think is better then me. it means nothing to me at all.

And btw. You I don't bother to argue your points because..................you never bring up any. All you do is go "yes" and "no". That's all you go for. So I am not attach to anything. I actually do my homework and go by head on experience. So Get this nonsense out of here.

 

[Sails]

Sail, I thought you would have learn better then to say something like this after playing me. Are talking about basic Peach play or one that actually knows what they are doing?

That typical Toss nanner in the air, I can easily Nair it upon landing and catch it. You are giving me a free naner. And that is something you really don't wanna do if a peach is sick with it. Peach has a good naner game. Mix that with her pressure game (really if I corner you) and you are in for a world of hurt.

I think the pressure is what makes air nanners good. If I pull a banana and short hop -> throw one at you, you may catch that banana but now you're vulnerable/heading to the ground while I'm grabbing my other banana. There are definitely things you can do, and I know Peach is nasty with bananas, but...The pressure from having a banana coming at you when you have one in your hand, plus being on the ground where I can now Side-B latch you (Which LOVES to strip bananas btw) because you're being shield pressured by said banana, overall makes me feel that it's a good idea. Sure it's a bit predictable, but I feel Peach has few options unless she just runs away with the banana and I don't feel she outcamps Diddy with one (Popgun camping with banana > turnip camping with banana (Can't have banana in hand, leads to eventually it disappearing/leaving openings when regrabbing it)). It's certainly not a game winning tool, but I feel it has enough power over flaws to make it useful.

It's hard for me to make a ratio for this matchup. I've played with DarkPch several times, Nicole even more times (she hates the matchup/plays it wrong), and a variety of other amateurs, one of which I beat at KTAR (And was being coached by DarkPch at the same time! Where's my ADHD coaching!? ). Diddy has tools that beat out some of Peach's stuff, but so does Peach. It's just too tough for me to call which one has more of those winning tools. From my experience, I'd say the matchup is even and ever so slightly leaning in to Diddy's favor, but I definitely feel like "my experience" is simply not good enough to call it. So my vote is null.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think the pressure is what makes air nanners good. If I pull a banana and short hop -> throw one at you, you may catch that banana but now you're vulnerable/heading to the ground while I'm grabbing my other banana. There are definitely things you can do, and I know Peach is nasty with bananas, but...The pressure from having a banana coming at you when you have one in your hand, plus being on the ground where I can now Side-B latch you (Which LOVES to strip bananas btw) because you're being shield pressured by said banana, overall makes me feel that it's a good idea. Sure it's a bit predictable, but I feel Peach has few options unless she just runs away with the banana and I don't feel she outcamps Diddy with one (Popgun camping with banana > turnip camping with banana (Can't have banana in hand, leads to eventually it disappearing/leaving openings when regrabbing it)). It's certainly not a game winning tool, but I feel it has enough power over flaws to make it useful.

It's hard for me to make a ratio for this matchup. I've played with DarkPch several times, Nicole even more times (she hates the matchup/plays it wrong), and a variety of other amateurs, one of which I beat at KTAR (And was being coached by DarkPch at the same time! Where's my ADHD coaching!? ). Diddy has tools that beat out some of Peach's stuff, but so does Peach. It's just too tough for me to call which one has more of those winning tools. From my experience, I'd say the matchup is even and ever so slightly leaning in to Diddy's favor, but I definitely feel like "my experience" is simply not good enough to call it. So my vote is null.

If you go and grab another nanner......thats it. Nothing happens. I have not suffered at all. All you really did is just give me a free naner to screw you over with. There really isnt much pressure when I have a naner in my hand. Remember, I can use my air moves with items in my hand. Im as fearful as you with a naner. And you are giving me a free naner by doing all this? it's not really worth it bro. I would only go for this is the Player can not play with nanners well. From there you can limit thier options and pound on them. Also if I feel you come at me with a quick assault with a naner once I land, smart thing for me to do is to quicky jump and Z drop. But only if you gonna come at me grounded. If you come at me with an air move, I shield it, Zdrop Naner and follow up or break away from you if I want/need too. So again this is something you DO NOT wanna do. This can actually lead to a reverse pressure game.

And I said before that I can do treating fairs if you come at me with sideB. So Lets say you get me to catch a naner. You are gonna get fair if I retreat back. Now if You wanna do this as you toss a nanner at me and I have one in hand, Peach can Z drop. and have it in front of her wile pulling away. You will mostly land on the nanner and i get a free hit. I have done this to diddys many times who feel safe or try to come at me with this. And just as you said, it is predictable. Stick with this on average Peach play.

Also camping me with the gun and naner is not gonna fly with me. My turnip for one thing goes throw the peanut. it breaks it and still keeps going to the enemy. Now unless you have a naner in front of you. I can easily get in. Glide to break gun and have a turnip coming at you. Now you not wanting to get hit, your most common option would be to shield. You shield and I am right there. And as I said before, you do not wanna be in the shield Vs me upclose. You are screwed. Other option is I can quickly ground float Nair to break the naner then cancel the move I can use this to slowly get in and wait for you to toss the one in hand if you have one. Remember. With a naner in hand, You can not use any of your normal moves. They all have to be special. And all you have to attack me with is a gun and Side be. Gun in range of peach is stupid. So really there is side -B. and it really wont be wise to just throw that move out there.

One other thing about camping that people fail to realize. When people camp, what is the most likely stage position you will be in? That would be the corner. And I said earlier you do not wanna get into a corner with her. You are best off fighting her center stage. More room to react to her pressure and trap/bait better. And his camping is not hard to get through at all. Once I get through and you in the corner vs me, its not gonna look good for you.And I can be more defensive then you. Peanuts are east to break if I wanna run away. And I space my moves, peach is really hard to touch. I have a quick spacing game both air and grounded that can lead to pressure. or just knock you away from me and keep playing keep away. I timed out a diddy twice on this matter.

if I get one naner and play to time you out, you would usually have to come at me and not rely on naner so much. You can naner set up very well since you have one. Can have one in front of you and try to trap me with one in hand and gun. Having a naner in hand limits your options. No normals. I can just hold on to the naner for as long as I wont. I dont really have to drop it. since I can fight and space well with it.

So don't do this. Fight center stage. if you ever have a stock lead still main tain the center stage. But don't strike so much. have at least one naner in front of you while you not standing so close to it. this limits me from appoaching you grounded. Now i have to go over that naner to get to you. No my main approach would be the air. and you have good tolls to snipe me down. me knowing this I have to be very careful and mix it up on how I am gonna get in. if I Stage a pressure, you have more room to evade and a chance to break free with a high % rate. I said peach have many tools to get inside diddy. but you doing this? I have to be very careful on how I choose to get inside. My best option might now really be the best at giving situation. My worst option might be. all depends.

 

[Zinoto]

So far everything that I have read in this thread is based on average peach play and/or one that does not know what they are doing.



Sail, I thought you would have learn better then to say something like this after playing me. Are talking about basic Peach play or one that actually knows what they are doing?

When you start off your posts with things like this, your baiting hostile responses. Right off the back you discredited everything that was discussed as if you were the ultimate Peach who knows everything about this match up. For the longest time, this match up was deemed even (even slightly in Peach's favor), no one is underrating her seeing as it is one of our tougher match ups; however, I think you completely over idealize her. You're acting as if Peach is completely superior to and that she completely shuts us down, which isn't right. I've played Mikey Lenetia 3 times in tourney now and each time the matches are extremely close. He's an incredible player and we've talked about the match up, in no way does he think that Peach trumps like you make it seem.

Top level peach I definitely don't see this being in peach's favor. I think it's even at top level

I agree. Both characters have an equal opportunity to do some real damage to the other. We should probably move on to the next character, we've been on her for about 3 weeks now.

I think the pressure is what makes air nanners good. If I pull a banana and short hop -> throw one at you, you may catch that banana but now you're vulnerable/heading to the ground while I'm grabbing my other banana. There are definitely things you can do, and I know Peach is nasty with bananas, but...The pressure from having a banana coming at you when you have one in your hand, plus being on the ground where I can now Side-B latch you (Which LOVES to strip bananas btw) because you're being shield pressured by said banana, overall makes me feel that it's a good idea. Sure it's a bit predictable, but I feel Peach has few options unless she just runs away with the banana and I don't feel she outcamps Diddy with one (Popgun camping with banana > turnip camping with banana (Can't have banana in hand, leads to eventually it disappearing/leaving openings when regrabbing it)). It's certainly not a game winning tool, but I feel it has enough power over flaws to make it useful.

It's hard for me to make a ratio for this matchup. I've played with DarkPch several times, Nicole even more times (she hates the matchup/plays it wrong), and a variety of other amateurs, one of which I beat at KTAR (And was being coached by DarkPch at the same time! Where's my ADHD coaching!? ). Diddy has tools that beat out some of Peach's stuff, but so does Peach. It's just too tough for me to call which one has more of those winning tools. From my experience, I'd say the matchup is even and ever so slightly leaning in to Diddy's favor, but I definitely feel like "my experience" is simply not good enough to call it. So my vote is null.

Your vote is definitely not null. Every post adds new knowledge to the match up discussion and is useful. I think the general consensus is that the match up is even. Can you provide the changed image for the match up index. Also the image should be changed to even as well.

 

[Dark.Pch]

When you start off your posts with things like this, your baiting hostile responses. Right off the back you discredited everything that was discussed as if you were the ultimate Peach who knows everything about this match up. For the longest time, this match up was deemed even (even slightly in Peach's favor), no one is underrating her seeing as it is one of our tougher match ups; however, I think you completely over idealize her. You're acting as if Peach is completely superior to and that she completely shuts us down, which isn't right. I've played Mikey Lenetia 3 times in tourney now and each time the matches are extremely close. He's an incredible player and we've talked about the match up, in no way does he think that Peach trumps like you make it seem.

Thats you assuming so much. But I am highly use to it so it does not bug me.

I never once said peach flat out ***** diddy. I also said I think she beats him but I never said by how much now did I. There was a reason I did not give a number yet. cause I knew somewhere along the line people were gonna assume something of me and I get a response such as this. people need to learn to ask before they think they are so such themselves.

 

[Player-1]

we've been on her for about 3 weeks now.

lol .

 

[TreK]

Thats you assuming so much. But I am highly use to it so it does not bug me.

I never once said peach flat out ***** diddy. I also said I think she beats him but I never said by how much now did I. There was a reason I did not give a number yet. cause I knew somewhere along the line people were gonna assume something of me and I get a response such as this. people need to learn to ask before they think they are so such themselves.

You should read some essays about communication.
How you say stuff matters just as much as what you say. If you are 'used to' being flamed for your post, then maybe something is wrong with your way of presenting them. Else everybody would get flamed for every post and not just you.

I cannot agree more about diddy being overrated and Peach being underrated for I know both characters really well and it's one of my favorite matchups, but you made it look like we didn't know a thing and you knew everything which apparently magically leads to Peach winning the matchup. That's not making the discussion any more productive because you can't assume such a thing.

 

[Zinoto]

You should read some essays about communication.
How you say stuff matters just as much as what you say. If you are 'used to' being flamed for your post, then maybe something is wrong with your way of presenting them. Else everybody would get flamed for every post and not just you.

I cannot agree more about diddy being overrated and Peach being underrated for I know both characters really well and it's one of my favorite matchups, but you made it look like we didn't know a thing and you knew everything which apparently magically leads to Peach winning the matchup. That's not making the discussion any more productive because you can't assume such a thing.

Basically this.

We thank you a lot for the information you were able to provide and I'm pretty sure that this thread will be useful for players who are having trouble with the match up, but you really need to watch how you present your information. If you simply "don't care" that's fine, but just know what to expect.

We're on the road to having a legit match up thread ^_^.

lol .

 

[Sails]

DarkPch probably knows the matchup the best out of any Peach I've ever seen/played, but until he beats high level Diddy's then I just don't see how it's in her favor.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You should read some essays about communication.
How you say stuff matters just as much as what you say. If you are 'used to' being flamed for your post, then maybe something is wrong with your way of presenting them. Else everybody would get flamed for every post and not just you.

I cannot agree more about diddy being overrated and Peach being underrated for I know both characters really well and it's one of my favorite matchups, but you made it look like we didn't know a thing and you knew everything which apparently magically leads to Peach winning the matchup. That's not making the discussion any more productive because you can't assume such a thing.

Let it be as it is. This is me. And I honestly think that I should not change myself for people. Fpr if i change, not everyone will like it. No matter what, not everyone is gonna like and agree with everything. Thats people and thats life.

I never have means of attacking anyone or trying to make people look like **** when I speak. Cause for those that seriously know me, if I was to actually attack and wanna put a person down, this is really nothing. But as I said before, im use to this and it happens all the time. which I am fine with. it's really nothing serious. I can't please or come off good to everyone.

Out side of this I said more then enough on what peach can do about diddys stuff. So now You guys are aware of what to expect by a peach that knows thier ****, and be ready to bait and deal with it all your own way. I also stated a way you should fight her. So I think we are done here yea?

And not like it matters, but my ratio for this is +1 for Peach for those that were curious.

DarkPch probably knows the matchup the best out of any Peach I've ever seen/played, but until he beats high level Diddy's then I just don't see how it's in her favor.

Not gonna happen. At my current skill level, there is no way in hell I am gonna beat a top diddy. I have too many problems mentally in the game, and alot of things I don't do. When I step my game up, then I will say I can take out a top diddy. As of now, Im not gonna win. But all that is really up to me.

 

[z00ted]

Zinoto, I didn't want to enter this thread or even discuss the Diddy Kong matchup for Peach due to the reasoning that this exact thing that I'm seeing would happen.

Just going to mention a few things.

1) Didn't read Dark Pch's posts.

I never really understand the points he tries to get across because I feel as though everything in his posts relate to a, "choose action one, two, or three" type of manner, then he bases matchups off of frames and stuff. Brawl has too many options for that, and high level players tend to create their own options due to character control. Plus his posts are far too long and he condones discussion with other players if he thinks he's in the right (he usually thinks he is). You're a cool dude and I know you always mean well, but you gotta chill out and be a bit more open to other's opinions, Dark Pch.

2) I've beaten every Diddy Kong that I have played, other than Gnes.

GDX, Fliphop x3, Player-1, Dojo, Andilex, DFEAR, etc.

3) I've played Gnes once in a tournament set and lost, it was very recent.

Beat him game one, got destroyed game two, lost to bad decisions/dumb stuff game three.

http://youtu.be/RnrafhLiInI.

4) Leon loses to Luigi Player a lot.

Leon also lost to Gnes in the only game he attempted to go Peach against him.

http://youtu.be/QfaS-fAz5nE#t=8m32s

My opinion on the matchup.

Peach does not have nearly as many safe options or advancing maneuvers as Diddy does. Banana play helps a bit, but limits our turnip game also which can really hurt. Our out of shield options are very resourceful against his obvious forward glide tossed banana approaches (nair) and misspaced hits on shield. Our fair approach is the only really "safe" positioning we can put forth (watch Leon on Ps1), but it gets extremely predictable fast and can lead to some harsh punishes.

Our ground game gets absolutely destroyed by Diddy's, aside from a few quick jabs here or there due to his quick grabs, d-tilt, and out of shield banana toss. His fair, flip kick, and banana through really limit our short hop float, which is the main reason why I think we lose. Not to mention his peanut gun can also get in harms way. He has more killing power (especially within his u-tilt when we are around 138%), safer killing moves, and is much harder to hit. Overall, a much better character.. Diddy Kong has a very strong shield to resist our dair, and can actually u-tilt out of shield on some of the last frames, if I remember correctly. Proper SDI can easily punish it with an u-air at high level play. Neutrals are in his favor, he plays decently on RC vs Peach (although it's in our favor), and wins on FD or Ps1. Very hard character to hit too. Small and agile, with a great shield. Not a character Peach is going to be killing very often due to the majority of her killing moves requiring very precise spacing and having low kill power. Watch this until the end of the match to see what I am talking about. I had to try every single one of my killing moves (for the appropriate situation) and they still wouldn't kill, or they would get powershielded. Luckily, I predicted his banana pull correctly at the end to take the win.

In conclusion, nothing about Peach is special at this point in our metagame and I'm really trying to understand why people think this is still '08 or '09. If a Diddy Kong learns the matchup before playing a high level Peach, or co-mains her.. it's easily winnable. Like always, I agree with Gheb.

+ 1

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Haha, thanks Ill but I know you don't always agree with me
There's at least one major issue where we're very much split ^_^

Good points though.

 

[Player-1]

I think Diddy beats Peach on RC but every diddy sucks there 'cept me.

 

[Zinoto]

Zinoto, I didn't want to enter this thread or even discuss the Diddy Kong matchup for Peach due to the reasoning that this exact thing that I'm seeing would happen.

Just going to mention a few things.

1) Didn't read Dark Pch's posts.

I never really understand the points he tries to get across because I feel as though everything in his posts relate to a, "choose action one, two, or three" type of manner, then he bases matchups off of frames and stuff. Brawl has too many options for that, and high level players tend to create their own options due to character control. Plus his posts are far too long and he condones discussion with other players if he thinks he's in the right (he usually thinks he is). You're a cool dude and I know you always mean well, but you gotta chill out and be a bit more open to other's opinions, Dark Pch.

2) I've beaten every Diddy Kong that I have played, other than Gnes.

GDX, Fliphop x3, Player-1, Dojo, Andilex, DFEAR, etc.

3) I've played Gnes once in a tournament set and lost, it was very recent.

Beat him game one, got destroyed game two, lost to bad decisions/dumb stuff game three.

http://youtu.be/RnrafhLiInI.

4) Leon loses to Luigi Player a lot.

Leon also lost to Gnes in the only game he attempted to go Peach against him.

http://youtu.be/QfaS-fAz5nE#t=8m32s

My opinion on the matchup.

Peach does not have nearly as many safe options or advancing maneuvers as Diddy does. Banana play helps a bit, but limits our turnip game also which can really hurt. Our out of shield options are very resourceful against his obvious forward glide tossed banana approaches (nair) and misspaced hits on shield. Our fair approach is the only really "safe" positioning we can put forth (watch Leon on Ps1), but it gets extremely predictable fast and can lead to some harsh punishes.

Our ground game gets absolutely destroyed by Diddy's, aside from a few quick jabs here or there due to his quick grabs, d-tilt, and out of shield banana toss. His fair, flip kick, and banana through really limit our short hop float, which is the main reason why I think we lose. Not to mention his peanut gun can also get in harms way. He has more killing power (especially within his u-tilt when we are around 138%), safer killing moves, and is much harder to hit. Overall, a much better character.. Diddy Kong has a very strong shield to resist our dair, and can actually u-tilt out of shield on some of the last frames, if I remember correctly. Proper SDI can easily punish it with an u-air at high level play. Neutrals are in his favor, he plays decently on RC vs Peach (although it's in our favor), and wins on FD or Ps1. Very hard character to hit too. Small and agile, with a great shield. Not a character Peach is going to be killing very often due to the majority of her killing moves requiring very precise spacing and having low kill power. Watch this until the end of the match to see what I am talking about. I had to try every single one of my killing moves (for the appropriate situation) and they still wouldn't kill, or they would get powershielded. Luckily, I predicted his banana pull correctly at the end to take the win.

In conclusion, nothing about Peach is special at this point in our metagame and I'm really trying to understand why people think this is still '08 or '09. If a Diddy Kong learns the matchup before playing a high level Peach, or co-mains her.. it's easily winnable. Like always, I agree with Gheb.

+ 1

Thanks so much for your input. I understand that you didn't have to post anything, but you gave a lot of good information, with videos showing how you play the match up. I apologize if you felt pressured into posting after I asked you to (it wasn't my intent), but I really thank you for the advice you gave.

I agree with a lot of the points you made. I played a with my last tournament and I beat him first game, but all of things that I did quickly lost effect in the second game like you said and I lost game 2. doesn't really have anything special at the moment and he kinda figured me out, so I had to ditto him to win. Hopefully you and the other players continue to evolve her.

Should we continue to discuss or close it? So far we have (4 for even, 3 for +1 (our favor) and, 1 for -1 ( favor)). Re-reading Gheb and Ill's post, I can see it being in our favor at top level play, but it still kinda seems like has tools to deal with us (even).

 

[Dark.Pch]

1) Didn't read Dark Pch's posts.

I never really understand the points he tries to get across because I feel as though everything in his posts relate to a, "choose action one, two, or three" type of manner, then he bases matchups off of frames and stuff. Brawl has too many options for that, and high level players tend to create their own options due to character control. Plus his posts are far too long and he condones discussion with other players if he thinks he's in the right (he usually thinks he is). You're a cool dude and I know you always mean well, but you gotta chill out and be a bit more open to other's opinions, Dark Pch.

You not read my post and thing come with this. When will people learn to ask or pay close attention rather then assuming.

And my Post being too long is actually a good thing. Cause I am providing a ton of information. Info that people might not have known about or be ready to expect. And I gave diddys all of it. I told them what I can do in this situations that thought they could get away with no problem. And then I told them how they should fight Peach. I would think since they wanted some imput on the match up, that they would want to know as much as possible. The more you know, the more prepared and confident you would be. And chances of losing the match go down. I don't like to give cheap 5 liners for advice when helping others. I'll give you as much info as I know to help you out. Thats me. And just cause people have a problem with my making long post with info for match ups, I am not gonna. Those people don't matter to me at all. The ones that find it useful are. And none do, thats fine with me too.

And at this point I don't wanna here this "be open to opinions thing." I say I think Peach wins, Gheb, comes out of left field with a stupid comment. Take crap was not needed. Seriously was not and it was a meaningless post. But none say anything to him. And once again, for helping out , I am the bad one right? Im always on the attack and always bias Peach, this is my true goal yea?

The whole world can think Peach loses to diddy or go even. Cause of that I am not gonna change my opinion on it no matter what people might say or thing of me for it. Im always gonna stand by what I say. And no one rarely aggres with what I gotta say anyway so this does not phase me at all. I dont agree with most of the points in this thread about this match up. I don't even agree it from Peach players and they are al not on my side as to Peach winning.

The only Peach player that actually agrees with me that Peach wins is leon. And last I heard, leon loses to diddy alot and still thinks Peach wins. So you and the others wanna down grade him too cause he thinks this like me? Or let him slide cause he is "Leon". So you bring up him losing to luigi alot and him BARELY losing to GNES 3 three at apex means nothing.

Since you wanna throw players at top level in the mix. The last time you fought Gnes you said you always played it wrong and was always too aggressive. Then you go and beat every diddy cause you learned that is not gonna work. So After apex2012 I was sure you got the match up down. You did too. And I told you to now go fight gnes and whip his ***, you should beat him. You recently fight GNES, and did not do to hawt. You lost. Leon fight Gnes at apex and lost. But where am I going with this? Notice.

Leon Got close to beating gnes. It could have been anyones game. The game was not sealed for GNES at all. You however have not gotten that close to beating him when you fought him again. Now this tells me a few things to why:

- leon is a better Peach player then you.
- Leon knows diddy better then you do.
- The style leon plays on diddy is better then yours.

And mind you he always loses to diddy. I use to have a habit of losing to Zelda alot. And Peach ***** Zelda. So me losing to Zelda could be or many different reasons. But if every Peach started getting whiped by a top Zelda, are we gonna say that Zelda beats Peach? Are we really done sit here and change that ratio. No we wont. Thats why I can not go only results to say this character beats/loses to this. Its a very stupid thing to go on results. High level Play Yoshi beats all the top meta knights, all the time. Lets now say Yoshi Beats meta knight. In melee Armarda, beats Marth players. ALL of then. He does not lose to Marth ever. But that match up Marth has a solid advantage on Peach. And even after watching Him crush Marths, Armada nor the Marth players think Peach Beats Marth. That match up is still hard. He also ***** fox and shieks, and those match up are really stupid.

But like your buddy Gheb, its on solo results he goes on about, and alot of other people in the community. Without doing there homework. With out exploring the characters. Knows wats safe and not, frames, qualities, etc. Thats not how things work. This was a reason I was getting boped by Zelda. I thought since Peach is a better character and can pressure zelda well, also camp her, that thats all I needed to know. But I would lose cause I did things I throught were safe based on character image. And played in a way I thought I could get away with. Then I decided to do some homework. Research her frames along with mines. And see if it was save to do a move before she could like Dsmash out of shield, or up smash, or Dtilt. After that, Zelda was never a problem to me and I beat them all I touched.

Winning does not always mean everything. Same with losing.

 

[z00ted]

Nah, I agree with you Dark.
Gheb's post was pretty unnecessary lol, but he did bring up some strong points.

I'm GLAD you write so much for matchup discussions. Dude, when I started your guides helped me out soo much, just due to all the information. Even if seventy percent of it was complete and utter garbage (not saying it was, just putting forth a scenario), I could get thirty percent of GOOD information. And when you take into consideration the length of your posts, that's a ton of great stuff to pick up compared to other guides (because even if the other ones consist of great information throughout, they can't even match the size of your thirty percent). Plus, different stuff works out for different people.

I know both you and Leon think it's +1, and I did skim through your posts, just didn't read all of it.
If you think it's +1, then cool. I hope both of you can figure stuff out to start taking the win at top level.

Gheb is also correct with Olimar (in my opinion), and probably would also agree with me when I talk about the Pikachu matchup. If the top level players of a certain character aren't doing what they say they can supposedly perform, why take into consideration anything they say? First matchup that comes to mind when I think of Peach is Pikachu. Almost every Peach (including you) has beaten at least one high level Pikachu. I have never lost to a Pikachu in my life and a supposed top level one lives in my state. There's no reason to keep that crap at even. Relate this to Peach vs Diddy.

I really want to hear P-1's opinion on this more than just one liner posts, because our set at Apex was incredible and played out really well. Wish it could have been recorded.

Thanks everyone for your appreciation and encouragement but my post wasn't really anything lol, just wanted to bring up a few things not stated.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I edit my post, might wanna check that again. And I'll say this now. NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I am not attacking you and NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and I an trying to put you down.

Let me just get that out the way before I seem like a bad guy again. And finally. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I dont have a problem with you at ALL.

 

[z00ted]

The whole world can think Peach loses to diddy or go even. Cause of that I am not gonna change my opinion on it no matter what people might say or thing of me for it. Im always gonna stand by what I say. And no one rarely aggres with what I gotta say anyway so this does not phase me at all. I dont agree with most of the points in this thread about this match up. I don't even agree it from Peach players and they are al not on my side as to Peach winning.

Ok, that's fair.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Since you wanna throw players at top level in the mix. The last time you fought Gnes you said you always played it wrong and was always too aggressive. Then you go and beat every diddy cause you learned that is not gonna work. So After apex2012 I was sure you got the match up down. You did too. And I told you to now go fight gnes and whip his ***, you should beat him. You recently fight GNES, and did not do to hawt. You lost. Leon fight Gnes at apex and lost. But where am I going with this? Notice.

Leon Got close to beating gnes. It could have been anyones game. The game was not sealed for GNES at all. You however have not gotten that close to beating him when you fought him again.

You're really being stupid here.
Leon LOST the only game he played as Peach against Gnes.
He went Marth the other two games.

I won a game against Gnes.
I went Peach the entire set.

Now this tells me a few things to why:

Leon is a better Peach player then you.

No.

I have better results, as well as wins, and also beat him in the ditto 2-0 in a money match.
I went Peach the entire time and received the same placement as him.
He only pulled out Peach in that set during Apex.

Leon knows diddy better then you do.

No.

He lost a game to Gnes, and loses to Luigi-Player.
I have a strong record against Diddies, despite my loss to Gnes (where I still take a game).

The style leon plays on diddy is better then yours.

Possibly.

We have different playstyles. Since none of us are winning a set at top level player, who are you to say who's is better? He didn't even take a game (the first one he played).

Also, I would like you to notice how POORLY Gnes was playing the matchup against Leon.

Notice how he was playing it against me game one, how he transitioned game two, and how he stayed consistent with his transition game three. If anything, Leon caught him off guard and could have gotten punished a lot harder for his actions game two. It seems as if Gnes still doesn't accommodate to Peach too well upon confrontation.

And mind you he always loses to diddy. I use to have a habit of losing to Zelda alot. And Peach ***** Zelda. So me losing to Zelda could be or many different reasons. But if every Peach started getting whiped by a top Zelda, are we gonna say that Zelda beats Peach? Are we really done sit here and change that ratio. No we wont. Thats why I can not go only results to say this character beats/loses to this. Its a very stupid thing to go on results. High level Play Yoshi beats all the top meta knights, all the time. Lets now say Yoshi Beats meta knight. In melee Armarda, beats Marth players. ALL of then. He does not lose to Marth ever. But that match up Marth has a solid advantage on Peach. And even after watching Him crush Marths, Armada nor the Marth players think Peach Beats Marth. That match up is still hard. He also ***** fox and shieks, and those match up are really stupid.

Don't even really want to respond to this, but I will say that there are clear exceptions to the rule (i.e. players just being really bad in general, character traits, clear advantages due to options, etc.). So nah, I'll disagree with you for the most part here.

But like your buddy Gheb, its on solo results he goes on about, and alot of other people in the community. Without doing there homework. With out exploring the characters. Knows wats safe and not, frames, qualities, etc. Thats not how things work. This was a reason I was getting boped by Zelda. I thought since Peach is a better character and can pressure zelda well, also camp her, that thats all I needed to know. But I would lose cause I did things I throught were safe based on character image. And played in a way I thought I could get away with. Then I decided to do some homework. Research her frames along with mines. And see if it was save to do a move before she could like Dsmash out of shield, or up smash, or Dtilt. After that, Zelda was never a problem to me and I beat them all I touched.

Gheb is a very smart poster.
He may not be a very smart player (I don't track his progress), but that doesn't really matter when it comes to understanding the core mechanics of this game or just observing matchups, frames, or character traits.

You sucked against Zelda because you suck against Zelda.
Just like I suck against Marth.

Don't even see how Zelda is really relevant to anything you are saying, and it's going on and on at this point.

Winning does not always mean everything. Same with losing.

This statement is beyond stupid.
Theory crafting out the ***.

I edit my post, might wanna check that again. And I'll say this now. NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I am not attacking you and NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and I an trying to put you down.

Let me just get that out the way before I seem like a bad guy again. And finally. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I dont have a problem with you at ALL.

Ok, same with you.

But your reasoning is really odd at times. And I think it paints a clearer picture as to why people shouldn't always take your word for everything (especially in this specific matchup thread).

As far as Leon goes, love the guy and his Peach.
Seriously one of the most innovative, friendly, and creative players I have ever met.
Don't discredit my respect for him. I still think he's very high up there, I just don't understand how you can come to such conclusions so quickly with such evidence presented before you.

This is EXACTLY why I dislike discussing matchups with Dark Pch
Always those,"x" is better than you because of, "insert logic that doesn't make sense" claims.

I spend more time arguing with Dark Pch, then debating the matchup with the actual opponents who main the character.