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Bowser and the art of empty hopping

Zigsta

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Hey Bowser bros!

Something's been REALLY, REALLY bugging me in watching other Bowsers play--not all Bowsers, mind you, but there's a good bit of Bowsers doing this, most notably people who are new to the character in this game (ie didn't main him in Melee or Brawl). And it's a godawful habit that makes no sense and NEEDS to stop.

Empty hopping backwards with Bowser. Repeatedly.

Just to be safe here, I'd like to clarify exactly what the purpose of empty hopping is. Stay with me now!

As you all should know by playing Bowser, our guy packs a crazy strong punch. And kick. When opponents see you select Bowser, they're likely going to be thinking one of two things (or even both):

1) I'm gonna combo this fool for days.

2) I'm gonna die at 50.

Best of all, both of these initial thoughts play into our favor as Bowser players. Why, you ask? Because Bowser excels in an environment where your opponent is scared. Bowser gets combo'd easily, yes. But thanks to rage, Bowser can make comebacks INSANELY fast in this game--hence how your once cocky opponent thinking option 1 starts thinking option 2. A scared player makes for a defensive player, and not in a good way (at least not for them!). Scared players play overly defensive, often undercommiting to significant moves and leaning more on defensive based options like shielding, rolling, spotdodging, airdodging, and camping/running. When players start playing scared, they subconsciously start revealing bad habits, and bad habits can be read--and reads lead to early kills.

BUT ZIGSTA. YOU'RE TELLING ME STUFF I ALREADY KNOW. WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH EMPTY HOPPING BACKWARDS???

Glad you asked, Caps Lock Man!

The purpose of empty hopping is to make an opponent think you're going to initiate an attack.

A tricksie I've been using since Brawl is empty hopping to bait an airdodge, then landing and dtilting the opponent as they hit the ground. It still works in Smash 4 for the same reason: I jump in the air, and the opponent is expecting a fair. They airdodge the predicted attack, only to be hit by dtilt--which is a great option for when your opponent is at KO percents, especially when they're close to the ledge.

To be clear: This likely isn't something you can implement in the early game, especially if you haven't played this opponent before. This is a fantastic mid to late game option to score KOs or to pile on damage. Case in point: After going for lots of upthrow> fairs or upthrow>upairs, try going for upthrow>empty hop...and read the opponent's airdodge with a fsmash. You've conditioned your opponent that upthrow leads to aerial followups, so they airdodge as soon as possible when they see Bowser jump--only for that to be the death of them. I've been doing this more and more, and it works REALLY well, especially thanks to upthrow's lessened cooldown post-patch.

But what about empty hopping backwards?

As I said earlier, the purpose of empty hopping is to make an opponent think you're going to initiate an attack. Empty hopping backwards can be useful to zoning characters, but in order to put pressure on the opponent, Bowser needs to get CLOSE TO THE ENEMY. Bowser's longest range attack in Firebreath. Do you think your opponent is scared of Firebreath? No, of course not. Your opponent is scared of literally ANY other move. A Bowser empty hopping backwards is both inviting the opponent to close the gap and telling the opponent that the Bowser doesn't know how to keep his pressure game on point.


So long story short: Use empty hopping as a way to psychologically pressure your opponent into making a mistake, then punish them for it.
 

S_B

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I've been doing this more and more, and it works REALLY well, especially thanks to upthrow's lessened cooldown post-patch.
Wait, was this legit confirmed?

I heard it speculated, but if this was legit, I need to get this info over to the competitive forums and edited into the M2 patch changes post...

And on the topic, yes, empty hopping AT enemies with Bowser should be one of the best/easiest methods of baiting out a mistake that we can capitalize on.
 

Uncle

Novus Ordo Seclorum
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Indeed. Bowser players don't gain anything by repeatedly retreating from their opponents. Our character doesn't have a mechanic like Wario's fart that rewards him for stalling for time. What the hell are we going to stall for? Fire Roar's recharge?

Bowser is a raider, ravager, and conqueror. If he is going to feint with an empty hop, he's gonna do it ON THE FRONT LINES.
 

MagiusNecros

Smash Master
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Messages
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Empty hops are one of the best ways to bait stuff out of close range combatants. Many heavies get rewarded for doing this.
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
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If you need to move back, just reposition yourself by walking. There are very few situations in this game where you will legitimately need to jump backwards. Nothing is that threatening.

Jumping in itself is a bad option to choose in most cases in Smash 4 anyway. You put too much at risk by doing that.
 

Godzillionaire

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The whole idea that bowser scares opponents is what made me always play as him ever since I was a kid at my cousin's house playing melee. It feels so right just scaring the opponent to be more defensive and punish them for that. Now I was thinking when you follow up with an aerial after and up throw wouldn't nair be the best option? It has a long lasting hit box and has crazy range so even if they airdodge it they'll most likely still get hit, or is it better to read the airdodge and punish with up air?
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
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Jumping away from an opponent basically accomplishes nothing except give up positioning and put Bowser in a more awkward spot.

If you're scared of an opponent hitting you, you could have shielded or even rolled backward. At least those keep you on the ground.
 

MagiusNecros

Smash Master
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Messages
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Bowser? Roll? What is roll? I only know of Fortress.

Empty hopping can be worth it if you run Dash Slash. Otherwise you shouldn't even bother.
 

Dark Phazon

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
5,910
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London, England
Hey Bowser bros!

Something's been REALLY, REALLY bugging me in watching other Bowsers play--not all Bowsers, mind you, but there's a good bit of Bowsers doing this, most notably people who are new to the character in this game (ie didn't main him in Melee or Brawl). And it's a godawful habit that makes no sense and NEEDS to stop.

Empty hopping backwards with Bowser. Repeatedly.

Just to be safe here, I'd like to clarify exactly what the purpose of empty hopping is. Stay with me now!

As you all should know by playing Bowser, our guy packs a crazy strong punch. And kick. When opponents see you select Bowser, they're likely going to be thinking one of two things (or even both):

1) I'm gonna combo this fool for days.

2) I'm gonna die at 50.

Best of all, both of these initial thoughts play into our favor as Bowser players. Why, you ask? Because Bowser excels in an environment where your opponent is scared. Bowser gets combo'd easily, yes. But thanks to rage, Bowser can make comebacks INSANELY fast in this game--hence how your once cocky opponent thinking option 1 starts thinking option 2. A scared player makes for a defensive player, and not in a good way (at least not for them!). Scared players play overly defensive, often undercommiting to significant moves and leaning more on defensive based options like shielding, rolling, spotdodging, airdodging, and camping/running. When players start playing scared, they subconsciously start revealing bad habits, and bad habits can be read--and reads lead to early kills.

BUT ZIGSTA. YOU'RE TELLING ME STUFF I ALREADY KNOW. WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH EMPTY HOPPING BACKWARDS???

Glad you asked, Caps Lock Man!

The purpose of empty hopping is to make an opponent think you're going to initiate an attack.

A tricksie I've been using since Brawl is empty hopping to bait an airdodge, then landing and dtilting the opponent as they hit the ground. It still works in Smash 4 for the same reason: I jump in the air, and the opponent is expecting a fair. They airdodge the predicted attack, only to be hit by dtilt--which is a great option for when your opponent is at KO percents, especially when they're close to the ledge.

To be clear: This likely isn't something you can implement in the early game, especially if you haven't played this opponent before. This is a fantastic mid to late game option to score KOs or to pile on damage. Case in point: After going for lots of upthrow> fairs or upthrow>upairs, try going for upthrow>empty hop...and read the opponent's airdodge with a fsmash. You've conditioned your opponent that upthrow leads to aerial followups, so they airdodge as soon as possible when they see Bowser jump--only for that to be the death of them. I've been doing this more and more, and it works REALLY well, especially thanks to upthrow's lessened cooldown post-patch.

But what about empty hopping backwards?

As I said earlier, the purpose of empty hopping is to make an opponent think you're going to initiate an attack. Empty hopping backwards can be useful to zoning characters, but in order to put pressure on the opponent, Bowser needs to get CLOSE TO THE ENEMY. Bowser's longest range attack in Firebreath. Do you think your opponent is scared of Firebreath? No, of course not. Your opponent is scared of literally ANY other move. A Bowser empty hopping backwards is both inviting the opponent to close the gap and telling the opponent that the Bowser doesn't know how to keep his pressure game on point.


So long story short: Use empty hopping as a way to psychologically pressure your opponent into making a mistake, then punish them for it.
I do this with Ganondorf and its insane what you can do with it.
 

Corgian

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Yeah but Bowser's roll isn't the greatest thing ever.
We aren't Yoshi. We do have a roll. We also aren't Samus; our roll isn't incredible. That being said, it's a tool in our toolbox, albeit for a situation that isn't as common as screws and nails. Use it when it is appropriate, which does happen occasionally. If you really want to complain about a defensive option of Bowser's, complain about his tech animations, because that is by far the saddest thing Bowser has.
 

MagiusNecros

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Messages
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We aren't Yoshi. We do have a roll. We also aren't Samus; our roll isn't incredible. That being said, it's a tool in our toolbox, albeit for a situation that isn't as common as screws and nails. Use it when it is appropriate, which does happen occasionally. If you really want to complain about a defensive option of Bowser's, complain about his tech animations, because that is by far the saddest thing Bowser has.
Yeah those are pretty sad. The spinning one is hilarious though.
 

Corgian

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Yeah those are pretty sad. The spinning one is hilarious though.
I find nothing funny about being punished by your own defensive option. Bowser is the only character is that I've played actually is put at a risk by teching. It's still better than not teching, but it's embarrassing that by the time Bowser's tech is over, Fox, C. Falc, and Sonic can make it across the entire stage to punish you.
 
Last edited:

Zapp Branniglenn

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If you really want to complain about a defensive option of Bowser's, complain about his tech animations, because that is by far the saddest thing Bowser has.
It is pretty sad. Try landing with aerial side B in the future. It's lagless, so if you perform the move at the same point where you perform a tech, Bowser is immediately upright and can pull up shield, immediate pivot grab, or jab his attacker who is expecting a tech. It's really jarring with the opponents who are expecting a tech chase scenario as you land, but instead get a fist.

Excellent thread. Bowser does thrive from being in arm's reach of his opponent. When you do send them airborne and bait an airdodge, they'll often have plenty of distance left to fall to perform an aerial instead. For that purpose, Bowser's run backwards- immediate pivot grab should be sufficient to catch them safely. You could pull up shield on reaction as well. When your opponent is in tumble, they don't have the luxury of simply landing and grabbing bowser as if they just empty short hopped. They have to tech, or they have to attack. Choosing neither gives us enough time to jab or Bowser Bomb them as they are prone on reaction.

When opponenets empty hop on the other hand, that may be one of the most potent and rewarding tricks against Bowser. Our moves are insanely slow to react with, and if we pull up shield for an opponent that's not attacking, forget it. Our OoS Fortress and Usmash are all we have to protect ourselves. One common misconception about shields in Smash 4 is that while the much reduced shield stun from attacks makes blocking moves greater than ever, shields are also approximately 4 frames slower to put down normally. So if you shield and block nothing, you're at a significant disadvantage.
 

Big-Cat

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This was really helpful to read, guys. I don't usually see very helpful stuff in any of the forums so this is fantastic. I've been having a roadblock lately with my game, and this is just what I needed. I might as well toss in some input too.

Instead of rolling backwards, do pivot FTilts or grabs. You give yourself some space if necessary and still leave an attack out for safety. Conserve your double jump when you can. Best save it for when you you're baiting out spikes off stage. On stage, you should PROBABLY keep yourself to the ground and limit to just one jump at a time unless you're certain it's needed for a kill. Bowser has a slow walk and tiptoe animation, use that to your advantage to bait out moves.
 

Jerodak

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For moments when you need to empty hop over something, like zamus charged shots, pika thunder jolts, or needles. It's actually best to input a backwards hop then start drifting forward immediately. This is because the back jump animation is the only one that tucks the legs in. Alternatively you could just use bairs instead, it pulls even more of the hurtbox away from the ground but it's also a bigger commitment
 
D

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This is the kind of material I just happen to love.

^And you, Jerodak. Keep throwing those (seemingly) irrelevant facts that no one will consider...that's the plan, right!?
 

Jerodak

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Yes, my ultimate goal is that 10 years from now, someone's gonna look deep through the boards and be like. "Look what this guy wrote!"
 
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