Cheapest Tactic

[cobman456]

So what do you think the cheapest tactic is? I personally think either the double pac man trampoline trick, the hoo hah, or the Spammy Pk Fire Ness'.

 

[MarkedRaptor]

I wouldn't ever say the word "cheap", cheap feels like a more childish excuse for something not being dealt with(no offense just the word itself). I prefer to use the word "cheesy" since that means it's a tactic that CAN be beat, but requires way more effort then the person using the tactic.

In which case, I find that Ness is a particularly cheesy character(No offense Ness mains). It's the fact that his N-air is so fast and close to being safe that he can mash out of combos or air setups. Then, he can get massive damage off of grabs and keep you from getting back on the stage.

This all wouldn't be too bad if he didn't kill you with a back throw. When Player A is looking for reads and trying to figure out how to get his kill setups (Marth is looking for grabs into reads and tippers). Then compare Player B who's like "be super defensive, all I got to do is grab him once". It seems a bit lopsided.

Not to say that there isn't "Good" Ness or "Bad" Ness players, I just find that even the not so good ones can be trouble some following the basic formula.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Cheap is an utterly meaningless word.
It's supposed to mean "low-cost/low-effort", but nowadays it just tends to mean "anything that manages to hit me". So I find that people calling frame-perfect fifty-hit-plus combos, for example, "cheap" are kind of ridiculous to say the least.

Yeah, I used to be guilty of this. Nowadays, though, instead of blaming the game, I sit in a depressed slump and lament at my lack of competence at something so trivial. Much healthier behavior.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Yeah, I personally find Ness to be cheap. I think he is deserving of the word. However, cheap is does not necessarily mean overpowered, unless your opponent doesn't know how to react, but cheap does mean it takes less skill. I have proof that Ness is overpowered against anyone who doesn't know his tactics. I once played my friend who was new to the game on the 3DS version. I picked Ness just to test how cheap he was (this is actually the first time I ever used Ness). It turned out my friend picked Bowser (the perfect character to demonstrate on), and all I had to do was PK fire to baseball bat, and back throw the entire game. I never even got in any danger. So yes, Ness takes little skill to play when using that tactic, but smash in general, and even the Ness matchup vs a more experienced player is not cheap. Nesses must actually use skill especially when recovering, and in their air game, but on the ground, meh, it makes me angry sometimes. But otherwise, this iteration of smash is WAY less "cheap" than the past games. Brawl? Meta Knight was cheap. Melee? Marth can chain grab half the cast, which is certainly cheap by our standards. (I don't know anything about 64) So no, smash 4 isn't cheap.

 

[Dark Phazon]

So what do you think the cheapest tactic is? I personally think either the double pac man trampoline trick, the hoo hah, or the Spammy Pk Fire Ness'.

Link no doubt

 

[Saikyoshi]

Yeah, I personally find Ness to be cheap. I think he is deserving of the word. However, cheap is does not necessarily mean overpowered, unless your opponent doesn't know how to react, but cheap does mean it takes less skill. I have proof that Ness is overpowered against anyone who doesn't know his tactics. I once played my friend who was new to the game on the 3DS version. I picked Ness just to test how cheap he was (this is actually the first time I ever used Ness). It turned out my friend picked Bowser (the perfect character to demonstrate on), and all I had to do was PK fire to baseball bat, and back throw the entire game. I never even got in any danger. So yes, Ness takes little skill to play when using that tactic, but smash in general, and even the Ness matchup vs a more experienced player is not cheap. Nesses must actually use skill especially when recovering, and in their air game, but on the ground, meh, it makes me angry sometimes. But otherwise, this iteration of smash is WAY less "cheap" than the past games. Brawl? Meta Knight was cheap. Melee? Marth can chain grab half the cast, which is certainly cheap by our standards. (I don't know anything about 64) So no, smash 4 isn't cheap.

"I completely thrashed a player who was far less experienced than me. Therefore, the character I chose is cheap."

 

[Kaladin]

Given the thread title is cheapest tactic...

I define cheap as the tactic that will allow you to beat the largest percent of the player base within the shortest amount of time after picking up the controller.

That means roll, projectile, and smash spam. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

"I completely thrashed a player who was far less experienced than me. Therefore, the character I chose is cheap."

Please don't jump to conclusions that are far different than what I mean. I wanted to try to mess with my friend by doing the stereotypical "cheap Ness" tactic. I wasn't trying to win more than I was trying to spite him (in a friendly way of course), but I found it much easier than I expected to just keep him away from me with PK fire, then hit him with more stuff while he was stunned. Also, as I said, Ness in competitive is not cheap, however, against new players who don't know how to get around PK fire he can be very cheap.

 

[WwwWario]

I understand what you mean, but I wouldn't call PK Fire cheap. I've recently found it very easy to read and punish. If a Ness rolls back, if you dash against him, if you both land - a PK fire is definitely coming (at least from 90% of my matches online against Ness). I just jump over it or block it, and punish. Though, I agree, I feel Smash 4 can be a bit "cheap" at times. Not sure if that's a fact though, or a result of me getting mad for losing, haha!

I mean, since rolling and dodging is so good in this game, I find players like Link to be "cheap". All they do is toll around the stage, spam projectiles, repeat. And even though you can punish, rolling is not the easiest thing to punish in this game. Other tactics is for example Mario's Dthrow --> Utilts. I mean, the last time I played against a Mario, every match he got me up to like 38% - JUST by getting a grab on me. I feel things like that, things that doesn't require a lot of skill to perform but is hard to avoid, are a bit "cheap". Especially with characters with very good rolls, like Little Mac; if I encounter a roll spamming Mac, the match ends up with both of us rolling around trying to land an attack every 5 seconds.

So, these few things in Sm4sh that I personally find a bit "cheap" doesn't only feel cheap, but also very boring. The rest of the game, however - I love it.

 

[AreJay25]

Ness is not cheap. PK Fire is like the laggiest projectile in the game. Learn to shield/jump/whatever.

 

[Ze Diglett]

For me, turtling. I find heavies to be the most guilty of this, especially(get it?). Don't get me wrong, it's far from difficult to adapt to a player sitting across the stage in their shield because they're at KO % and too afraid to actually play the game, but it's still super annoying when they resort to that, especially when you factor in FG lag which makes it super risky to move a muscle.
Honorable (?) mentions go to Fireball/Pill/Thunder Jolt spam, Easy-Bake PK Fire/Paralyzer to D-throw combos, and .
EDIT: ITT ness mains getting super defensive about their PK fire

 

[Xermo]

If you believe ness to be cheap, you clearly know nothing of the character and you're bad at this game.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Ledge camping Villager anyone?

 

[AreJay25]

EDIT: ITT ness mains getting super defensive about their PK fire

Well yeah, because we can defend against it.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Well yeah, because we can defend against it.

Sorry, just couldn't help but notice that it was only Ness mains who were coming here just to get all defensive about their tactics.
Talk about a "vocal minority" >_>

 

[Mizzy Moe]

ledge camping villager or ledge camping side b gannon i never even wanna get close and more gannons than not i find do that the whole game

 

[ZeroSuit700]

Toon Links when they play defensively using their arrows and bombs.

 

[ElectricBlade]

Ledge camping Villager anyone?

Agreed, even worse when customs are on *shudders*

 

[AvengerV]

In my opinion there are no cheap tactics because it is part of the game you should learn to play around it instead of making excuses.

 

[Nammy12]

Abusing the fact that theres no team attack online.

It works with any projectile heavy character, but Ness does it best because lol pk fire.

Such skill, much wow.

And this is why team attack off is stupid.

 

[Khao]

Cheap is using pepper spray on your opponent sitting next to you in real life so they're blinded and can no longer play the game.

Playing with the rules given to you as a part of the whole package that were purposefully designed and implemented? Not cheap.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess the most redundant move that'll get the other person success with the least amount of effort would be...

wait for it...

Projectile spamming, ledge camping, and people who roll from one side to the other just to spam more projectiles.

Now before I get skewered for saying what I said let me elaborate. I know a lot of this can be mediated by picking up patterns and all around learning the game but it's still a very annoying tactic that I find a lot of people on FG resort to. Especially when there are those who... *shudders* specialize in mixing up and trying their hardest to make projectiles their bread and butter at the same time.

A lot of the mediating on this "cheap" tactics has to come from experience, and technique. Practice air dodging while having a friend toss projectiles at you. Try to practice with different controls such as putting Basic Attack on your C-stick for aerial grabs.

Ledge camping into projectile spamming is also something that irks me.

These are just some things I have a more hard time dealing with myself. They're still very annoying to deal with and it really takes the enjoyment out of the game for me when people do this. I hope I still don't get skewered for this. Lol

 

[Tino]

Cheap is an dumbass excuse. You just gotta get used to how everyone plays around here, learn from them and use it against them.

 

[Buffoon]

Real talk. The cheapest tactic is an accidental footstool.

 

[GideonSmash]

Smash bros wii u isn't cheap at all! It was 60 bucks!

 

[ZomBiehn]

Cheap is using pepper spray on your opponent sitting next to you in real life so they're blinded and can no longer play the game.

Playing with the rules given to you as a part of the whole package that were purposefully designed and implemented? Not cheap.

Unless you and your friend play with "items on" then pepper spraying is legal

 

[ChikoLad]

I honestly can't think of anything cheap mechanics wise off the top of my head (except for this one thing I sometimes do as Sonic).

But I do think certain character choices are blatantly cheap under heavy online lag. Basically the big heavy hitters and super armour guys like Little Mac and Charizard with his Flare Blitz. Stuff like that is really cheap when you have terrible lag. Because they can time big laggy attacks much easier if the frames are constantly stuttering and the input delay is massive (it's much easier to charge up a single button for a single attack during lag than it is to properly time combos and strings with a weaker but faster character). It is MUCH easier to play slow, heavy hitting characters like Bowser and Charizard under online lag than it is to play characters that require more precision like Rosalina and Sonic.

Also certain other things are abusable under online lag, like Pikachu going back and forth with his Up B.

Dedede players are the worst though under heavy lag, all they do is spam Gordos that you can't properly hit back because of all of the delays and stuttering, and then they are able to easily get you with a Smash. I was playing against one last night on 3DS and when I was playing as Mewtwo, none of my attacks would connect with his Gordos OR him for SOME reason (either just barely missing or near-ground aerials not coming out on time and thus just giving me landing lag, etc), and he managed to KO me without me landing a single hit. It was ridiculous.

I also lost to a Little Mac on Wii U once who literally, and I mean LITERALLY, used no other move but Side Smash. I couldn't punish him properly though because of the mix of stuttering, input lag, and his Super Armour on the move just made things really awkward for me.

 

[Sean²]

The pause button is pretty cheap.

"Oh, I'm about to get hit with an fsmash I think OOOOOPS SORRY I HAD AN ITCH ON MY NOSE"

 

[Kyzael]

Well like MarkedRaptor said, cheesy works better than cheap. (Despite not liking Ness at all, I have no problem with Mewtwo killing me with a throw.)

As for a "Cheesy" tactic, in my personal case. Using aura sphere to rack up INSANE damage when Lucario is above 100%. The damage is powerful, the KO is powerful. And spot dodging it is dangerous as you can get hit as your spot-dodge ends.
It's just a useful trick when I am falling behind and i'm fighting someone who needs to actually get near me. Or someone who doesn't have higher priority than my Aura Sphere. (Heh..Duck Hunt, Robin have sad days)

One trick my friend hates with Lucario is using the Force Palm as a kill move, as i've gotten pretty good at landing it as a punish.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Smash 4 is not cheap, since every character is viable and has its pros and cons.
A cheap strategy? Rolling everywhere like a ball, Counter and projectile spamming.

 

[PCHU]

A lot of characters have cheesy tactics this time around.
You can tell people to suck it up and deal with it, and while it can work, it doesn't make it any less cheesy.

That being said, I don't like rollspammers.
If you read hard enough and put yourself in prime position, you can intercept it, but I'd almost rather just not play the game at that point; my opponent's spending most of the match in shield/invincibility, so they obviously don't want to fight me, either.
In tournament, you don't complain about it, you just fight it, but when you're just playing to have a good match, it's a nuisance.

 

[Lemon Girl]

Things are only cheap under lag because they're harder to react to (like Flare Blitz). Offline tho, everything is fine, probably the closest to being cheap are Sonic's specials, they're WAY too safe.

 

[XxSmashM4sterxX]

Sheik, ZSS, Diddy, Ness, Luigi, Duck Hunt with his disgusting projectiles, and Sonic gotta spam spin dash lel.

Edit: I almost forgot the king of cheap and cancer, Pikachu.

Get mad, freelo abusers.

 

[AreJay25]

Sheik, ZSS, Diddy, Ness, Luigi, Duck Hunt with his disgusting projectiles, and Sonic gotta spam spin dash lel.

Edit: I almost forgot the king of cheap and cancer, Pikachu.

Get mad, freelo abusers.

>Says Duck Hunt is cheap
>Mains Rosalina, a character with a move that shuts down his projectile game

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

"I completely thrashed a player who was far less experienced than me. Therefore, the character I chose is cheap."

>Says Duck Hunt is cheap
>Mains Rosalina, a character with a move that shuts down his projectile game

The Ad Hominem and Red Herring logical fallacies are prevalent in this thread. What happened to respecting people's opinions?

 

[AreJay25]

The Ad Hominem and Red Herring logical fallacies are prevalent in this thread. What happened to respecting people's opinions?

Except it's not an opinion, it's a fact. Rosalina shuts down Duck Hunt's projectiles with Gravitational Pull. How is that a logical fallacy?

 

[FalKoopa]

Might as well take it to the unpopular opinions thread at this rate.