momochuu
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Condors, Eggplants, and Chaingrabs ~ The
New Guide to Competitive Ice Climbers
New Guide to Competitive Ice Climbers
This new guide was created by a few members of the Ice Climbers boards to get a better understanding of how to play them at a competitive level. I'm sure there's something here for every Ice Climbers player to learn from!
Table of Contents
I. What's so special about Nana and Popo?
Background Info
Why Ice Climbers?
Pros and Cons
II. Move Analysis
III. Offense
Approaches
Juggling...A.K.A Up-Air
Getting Kills
Edgeguarding
Combos and Strings
DI Chasing
Getting the Grab
IV. Defense
Baiting/Punishing
Out-of-Shield options
Spacing
V.Recovering
DI/SDI/Momentum Cancelling
Getting Back Onstage with both ICs intact.
VI. Advanced Techs
Desynching
Chaingrabs
Advanced Grabs/Hobbling
Minor Overlooked Things
VI.FAQ
VII.Credits
What's so special about Nana and Popo?
Background Information
The Ice Climbers are two small children that are playable in the 1985 game Ice Climbers. When played in one player mode, the player used Popo. When 2 player mode is played, player 1 uses Popo and player 2 uses Nana. Both Ice Climbers wear parkas and giant mallets. Popo's parka is blue, and Nana's parka is pink. They have a very...strange relationship. Many believe them to be lovers, while others consider them to be siblings. There isn't much information on them considering they have only appeared in one game outside of Super Smash Bros.
Why Ice Climbers?
The Ice Climbers in Super Smash Bros. Brawl are very offensive characters. They can do a lot of damage in a small amount of time because they're doing the same damage 2 characters would. They have great special attacks and a nice juggle game.
...And there's the chaingrab. The very reason why many people even think of playing as the Inuit children. Many people consider this chaingrab game-breaking and ban worthy, but it's really not. Don't get grabbed.
They also have a very unique characteristic called desynching. This allows them to do two different attacks at different times. This can give them more approaches, leads into grabs, and just confuse the opponent.
However, despite all of this, the Ice Climbers are very very difficult to play efficiently. They do bad on a lot of stages and Nana is gimpable. Many players focus solely on their grabs which leads to them losing a lot. The correct way to play Ice Climbers is to improvise and switch up between desynching and getting grabs the correct way when you need to.
The Ice Climbers are also terribly adorable. That should be enough of a reason alone.
Ice Climbers~Pros and Cons
The Ice Climbers are good, but have some glaring weaknesses. You have to know what they are to avoid being put in these situations.
Pros:
- More of a "Glass Cannon" Character if anything. Very powerful, but they also die quickly and can be dispatched easily.
- Pretty good running speed
- Amazing special attacks. One of the best special movesets in the game.
- Can be confusing for some players to play against.
- (Almost) Broken Chaingrab
- Desynch game is good for confusing opponents and approaching
- Good juggle game with UpAir/UpTilt
- Very unique character. The only one so far in Smash Bros. history that allows you to control 2 characters at once.
- Squall Hammer is one of the highest vertical recovery attacks when done correctly.
- Both characters can now grab the ledge, unlike Melee.
- Can rack up damage very quickly.
- Ice Block negates most projectiles. Even fully charged Aura Spheres/Charge Shots
Cons:
- Difficult to powershield with them because of their 6 frame difference in actions.
- Difficult character to pick up because of all the technical aspects of the character.
- Constant projectiles can be a pain because of the 6 frame difference in actions, making it harder to shield correctly.
- Characters with good gimping abilities can kill Nana with no problem.
- It seems like they're very weak from directly below because arguably their worst move is their only option in this situation.
- One of the worst grab ranges in the game
- Most of their attacks have small range
- Somewhat floaty
- Very limited in approach options. This is helped by desynching, however.
- The Ice Climbers seem to bring out the worst in their opponents...resorting to camping and running out timers in matches avoiding getting grabbed.
- Nana....
Ice Climbers Move Analysis
Many players don't know enough about the Ice Climbers' basic combat game as much as their grab game. As good as their grabs are, if your opponent is good at not getting grabbed, you're gonna be screwed. Let's look at the Ice Climbers attacks:
Basic Attacks
Jab
The Ice Climbers swing their hammers back and forth at the opponent.
Damage: 5% for one swing; 11% for both swings
Range: Small
Startup: 1-3
Hitbox: 4-7 (1st hit), 22-24 (2nd hit)
Cooldown: 8-27 (1st hit only), 25-39
The Ice Climbers have a fairly quick jab, and it's good for a quick "GTFO" move. For people expecting both swings from the jab, you can jab cancel into a grab. Overall, you won't be using it much but don't completely overlook it.
Forward Tilt
The Ice Climbers swing their hammers horizontally in front of them.
Damage: 16%
Range: Medium
Startup: 1-8
Hitbox: 9-12
Cooldown: 13-32
A pretty good move for the ICs, but a lot of people don't really use it enough. Fairly quick and good for spacing. Not a spectacular tilt compared with the rest of the casts' tilts, but the ICs aren't known for their tilts.
Up Tilt
The Ice Climbers spin their hammers over their heads.
Damage: 23%
Range: Small in front of them/Medium overhead
Startup: 1-7
Hitbox: 8-9, 11-12, 14-15, 17-18, 20-21, 23 (6 hits)
Cooldown: 24-48
Up Tilt is great for starting Up Air juggles, is pretty fast, and can be led into reverse grabs if they DI incorrectly. Once again, a pretty good move that too many ICs don't use. Not much horizontal range though.
Down Tilt
A low sweeping attack with the hammers.
Damage: 11%
Range: Medium
Startup: 1-7
Hitbox: 8-11
Cooldown: 12-30
A fairly quick tilt that's pretty good for spacing. It can semi spike if if hits correctly, or if they're on the ledge.
Dash Attack
A fairly standard running attack. They rush at the opponent and...headbutt them?
Damage: 10%
Range: Fairly large considering it's Ice Climbers.
Startup: 1-10
Hitbox: 11-12
Cooldown: 13-41
An okay attack as far as dash attacks go. The timing on the attack is deceptive because they lean back a bit before running into them. If it connects, you can string into Up Airs, which is always nice.
Neutral Air
Nana and Popo spin around with their hammers, attacking all around them.
Damage: -
Range: Small
Startup: 1-5
Hitbox: 6-23
Cooldown: 24-45
Landing lag: 15
Pretty good, fast aerial for Ice Climbers. Their Forward Air is fairly slow, so if you have an attacker in front of you use this attack instead of F-Air.
Up Air (<3)
They thrust their hammers into the air.
Damage: 12-17%
Range: Large overhead
Startup: 1-5
Hitbox: 6-23 (6-9 strong hit)
Cooldown: 24-29
Landing lag: 30
The Ice Climbers' best aerial. "Combos" into itself, very fast, and has a lot of attacks that can be followed up into this move. You can do a LOT of damage with strings of Up Airs, especially against bigger characters or characters weak from below (R.O.B. for example). It provides very good shield pressure when you're under the opponent when they're on a platform. Use this move a lot. <3
Down Air
A stall and fall move where the Ice Climbers drop down quickly with their hammers.
Damage: 13%
Range: Crap
Startup: 1-8
Hitbox: 9-51
Cooldown: 52-63
Landing lag: 42
A pretty bad attack. Quite possibly the worse attack they have. Really slow and it hits the opponent at a weird angle. The move lasts a long time as well. If you use this move near the ground, enjoy the tons ending lag you're gonna get. Don't use this attack. >.<
Forward Air
The Ice Climbers arc their hammers and slam them down in midair.
Damage:19-24%
Range Medium
Startup: 1-18
Hitbox: 19-20
Cooldown: 21-56
Landing lag: 20
Pretty good attack. Adds very quick damage during chaingrabs, spikes out of chaingrabs, and other fancy things.
Back Air
The Ice Climbers swing their hammers behind them.
Damage: 19%
Range: Large
Startup: 1-7
Hitbox: 8-11
Cooldown: 12-35
Landing lag: 15
Very quick aerial that's good for spacing. It can kill at higher percents, and is good for edgeguarding.
Forward Smash
They swing their hammers straight down over their heads.
Damage: 20-28%
Range: Medium
Startup: 1-11
Hitbox: 12-13
Cooldown: 14-47
A very good smash attack in general. Very fast, nice damage, not too much cooldown. It can also be used to finish chaingrabs, and kills earlier than Up Smash in some situations.
Down Smash
The Ice Climbers sweep their hammers all around their feet.
Damage: 20-53%
Range: Medium
Startup: 1-8
Hitbox: 9-11 (back), 14-17 (front)
Cooldown: 18-44 ]
The most damaging attack they have, if all the hits connect. It hits on all sides, which is very nice. Some Ice Climbers don't really use this attack much. It's use if quite debatable.
UpSmash
The Ice Climbers swing their hammers overhead.
Damage: 20-28%
Range: Medium above them
Startup: 1-12
Hitbox: 13-18
Cooldown: 19-49
The most used chaingrab finisher. It can kill from the top quite early and does a pretty good amount of damage. Using it outside of chaingrabs isn't very good though because of all of the ending lag.
Special Attacks
Ice Block
The Ice Climbers shoot a block of ice in front of them.
Damage: 4%
Range: The move travels the stage until the ice melts.
Startup: 1-16 (ice block appears on frame 8)
Hitbox: 17 (ice block lasts for ? frames)
Cooldown: 18-59
A very good projectile and one of the best in my opinion. The attack stays out for a while and outprioritizes a lot of other projectiles (Lucario's Aura Sphere even when fully charged, Samus's Charge Shot, Pit's Arrows, etc.). The Ice Blocks can force approaches from some characters which may lead into grabs. You can desynch Ice Block chases which can lead into many things. Ice Blocks can also gimp recoveries by stealing seconds jumps. There's too many uses to list. Just be creative.
Blizzard
The Ice Climbers shoot snow in both directions, or in front of them if short hopped.
Damage: *DI Dependent* Max 34%
Range: Amazing
Startup: 1-15
Hitbox: 16-?
Cooldown: ?-79
Blizzard Priority Explained:
Another amazing attack and one of the best attacks in the game. It's one of the most damaging special attacks, has a lot of range, and has many uses. When desynched, you can short hop Blizzards to approach, lead into grabs, and more. Blizzard has strange priority though. It goes through most attacks, but most projectiles go right through it with no problem. Combined with Ice Blocks when desynched, most characters are forced to just approach to their doom.
Squall Hammer
The Ice Climbers spin around covered in snow.
Damage: *DI Dependent* Max: 27%
Range: Large
Startup: 1-11
Hitbox: 12-?
Cooldown: ?-89
Another good special attack, but nothing spectacular. It pops the opponent into the air when the last attack connects, which leads into UpAir chains. The Ice Climbers can be knocked out of the attack by long range moves and some attacks though. Most Ice Climbers mains think that this is the best recovery option for the Ice Climbers. If a single Ice Climber uses this move, it's damage and recovery options are very nerfed.
Belay
The leader Ice Climber throws Nana by a rope, bombarding the opponent.
Damage: 18%
Range: Large above them
Startup: ?
Hitbox: ?
Landing Lag: 30 frames
Not very good for attacking, despite the insane knockback. Very laggy, and leaves Nana completely vulnerable. It's a nice recovery option though, and can save Nana from strange distances.
Throws
*Go to the chaingrab section for descriptions*
Grab Attack
A simple headbutt.
Damage: 1-2%
Forward Throw
Tosses the opponent to the side.
Damage: 5-6%
Startup: 1-13
Hitbox: 24
Cooldown: 25-49
Back Throw
Throws the opponent behind them.
Damage: 5-6%
Startup: 1-14
Hitbox: 15
Cooldown: 16-31
Down Throw
Slams the opponent's head into the ground.
Damage: 6%
Startup: 1-29
Hitbox: 30
Cooldown: 31-39
Up Throw
Throws the opponent into the sky.
Damage: 4%
Startup: 1-24
Hitbox: 25
Cooldown: 26-53
Offense
Juggling...AKA Up-Air
As many people may know, the Ice Climbers are awesome at juggling. Combined with Desynching, you can set up some awesome juggle traps.
Juggle Trap is a type of frame trap that makes it difficult to land. Based on your opponent's reaction, you can punish them accordingly.
Easiest example that comes to mind:
A Metaknight is under his opponent.
If they Airdodge, he can drop under them and Up-Air/Up-B.
If they fall without any action or Airdodge, Metaknight can N-Air.
If they end up below Metaknight via Airdodge, he can D-Air.
Juggle traps severely limit your opponents options for landing. The Ice Climbers are fairly slow in the air and on the ground. Fortunately there are two of them. With Desynching, you can use one to juggle and the other to cover you on the ground.
Here are some examples: (Note that either Nana or Popo can do the action)
Nana Up-Air and Popo Up-Tilt
Alternate Short Hopped Up-Air's
Alternate Up-Tilts
Juggling setups:
In order for you to juggle your opponent with Up-Air, you need to hit them into the air. There are a few ways this can be accomplished.
Squall Hammer- The last hit of Squall Hammer pops the opponent into the air. It deals great damage and can lead into an Up-Air easily.
Down-Throw- Not likely since, you'll most likely be chaingrabing them when in this situation, but it can lead into an Up-Air most of the time.
Up-Tilt- Up-Tilt is also a great setup move for juggling. The last hit of Up-Tilt pops your opponent into the air
Dash Attack- Dash Attack can setup for juggling as it hits the opponent into the air. It is an unsafe move, as it's hard to space on a moving opponent, and it sends the opponents at an angle most of the time, which will kill followups.
Using Up-Air:
Up-Air at low percent can hit multiple times. Up-Air's hitbox lingers for a bit and the lingering hitbox is much weaker than the initial one. This can set up for more juggling. Ideally you can finish the Up-Air's with a B-Air/N-Air/Up-Air. The other reason why Up-Air is so good is it's priority. It beats out many high priority D-Air's such as...
Falco's D-Air
Ike's D-Air
Game and Watch's Key.
Link and Toon Link's D-Air
Metaknight's D-Air
Getting the kill
Due to their low mobility and range, the Ice Climbers have a difficult time finishing off their foes without the grab. Here are a few ways you can ensure that your opponent dies at a reasonable percent:
The Grab- The Ice Climbers are most deadly when they have their opponent in their clutches. After chaingrabing you opponent or grabbing your opponent at a high percent, you can charge a smash to finish your opponent. This is the most common way to kill your opponent. Up-Smash is most preferable because KO's off the top give your opponent less time to recover.
F-Smash- F-Smash has a sweetspot directly above the Ice Climbers, a little behind them (right behind their head) and where the mallet connects with the ground. If the opponent is above you, a reverse F-Smash will send your opponent in the opposite direction and can mess with their DI.
Hyphen Up-Smash- Up-Smash is your best vertical kill move. It comes out decently fast, and with a Hyphen Up-Smash, or running Up-Smash, the Ice Climbers slide a decent distance. Only use this when you know it will connect and finish off your opponent.
B-Air- The aerial with the most range and is fairly quick. Since most opponents don't like fighting on the ground against the Ice Climbers, B-Air is one of your better kill options. There is a small hitbox in front of them that will send your opponent in front of you with the same power.
Up-Air- When fresh, Up-Air is a viable kill option due to it's speed, range, and priority. This is most likely after respawning while your opponent is at death percent.
Edgeguarding
Edgeguarding is a very important aspect of the game. Edgeguarding insures that your opponent does not make it back to the stage. Characters with multiple jumps or a really good recovery can go very far offstage without much fear. The Ice Climbers are somewhat limited in this regard because losing Nana offstage or being desynched could mean death. However, this doesn't mean that the Ice Climbers are hopeless when it comes to edgeguarding.
Ice Blocks- Ice Blocks tend to slide long distances and shrink the more they slide on the ground. They also bounce off walls and slide off stage. A well timed Ice block can disrupt an opponent's second jump when they try to recover from below, which will force an Up-B in many cases, and lower the opponents chance of recovery. From the air, Ice Blocks drop at a certain angle.
Using an aerial- It is possible to go offstage (one jump length if you want to be safe) and try to react to what your opponent does. N-Air will knock the opponent away from the edge and will add damage. F-Air can be used as a surprise attack due to the attack having telegraphed startup lag. It has decent knockback, and from that position will put your opponent in a bad position. You can spike your opponent with perfect spacing. B-Air is your best bet for edgeguarding your opponent at high percents due to its range and power.
Blizzard- Blizzard can be used to make it difficult to land on the ledge, or to get back onto the stage. Space accordingly because your opponent can use their invincibility frames to attack you. Blizzard is probably the safest answer to ledge camping.
Ledge Attack- If your opponent gets hit by a ledge attack when behind the Ice Climbers, they will be sent away from the stage. At under 100, this also works when the opponent is above them, and the ledge attack comes out decently quick.
Down-Tilt- Down-Tilt semi-spikes. When well spaced, it can catch an opponent who failed to sweetspot the ledge or as a surprise attack without trading hits or knocking you out of position. This isn't a likely edgeguard, but it's possible.
Reading your opponent
Let's say your opponent manages it make it back onto the ledge. They have a few options to allow them to get back on the stage.
Get-Up Attack
Jump from the Ledge
Rolling onto the Stage
Simply Getting Up on the stage
Ledge-Hopped Aerial or Attack
Ledge-Hop
Try to figure out how quick their aerials come out (that's usually what the opponent will attack you with) and how far your opponents ledge attack goes. If your opponent acts fast enough, they can keep the invincibility frames they had from the ledge. Also be mindful of the damage meter because the opponent will take longer to get off the edge or do a ledge attack if they decide not to ledgehop.
As long as you don't let your shield shrink too much, you can stay in your shield and react to your opponent's action. If you think your opponent is going into the air, you can intercept it with a N-Air/B-Air (or N-Air/B-Air out of Shield). If they try to roll or Get-Up, try to use Blizzard or a Smash. For a Ledge Attack/Ledge Hop, shield and punish. If you really think you know what your opponent is going to do, you can probably get a grab in as well.
Ledgehogging
Grab the edge so your opponent can't grab it. Your opponent cannot occupy the edge at the same time you do.
To speed-hog run towards the ledge, and quarter-circle downwards and towards the edge. You should be able to grab the edge because Brawl's engine allows you to grab the ledge no matter which way you are facing.
Be careful of running out of invincibility frames. Hanging on the ledge puts you at risk for getting stage-spiked.
There's Two of Them
Nana and Popo have the unique property of sharing the ledge. When desynched, you can let Nana grab the ledge and then have Popo grab it for increased invincibility. Or you can have Nana hog the edge while you fight on the stage.
Up-B tether can also lengthen ledge invincibility. Nana will grab the ledge before Popo and Popo will be able to act first. Also if they opponent attacks Nana when she's hanging on the ledge from an Up-B tether, there will be hit-lag which can make it easier to punish your opponent.
DI chasing
Tech Chasing:
Since Ice Climbers have a move that makes the opponent shoot downwards (Nana's Fair), it can be a very good thing to know how to tech chase. Tech chasing is when you read your opponent's tech in order to hit them as they're getting up. Tech chases can let you land most of your moves. This includes grabs!! Since all Ice Climbers need is one grab, reading a tech chase takes one stock off your opponent easily.
If you're slow in responding to your opponent's movements, the most this could land you is a free dash attack. This is why you'll need to get used to reading techs.
Your opponent has 5 basic options when teching:
Getting up instantly
Rolling left
Rolling right
Getting up with an attack and
Waiting a short while before choosing one of these options to try and throw you off.
There is no clear way to predict what your opponent is going to do, so you'll have to predict them. You should be thinking "what would I do in their position?", and then respond accordingly. It also helps to consider what your opponents safer options might be.
As the match progresses, it becomes easier to read techs. The more you play against someone, the more familiar their play style becomes. If you miss a tech chase, pay attention to what your opponent does. This could very well help you the next time your opponent is in the same position.
Your opponents can have limited options when teching in certain areas. For example: On a platform in battlefield, all you have to do is shield next to them and you've covered all their options. If they get up, they're right in front of you and you get a grab. If they attack to get up, you'll shield it and then you can grab them. If they roll forwards, you'll be able to run up and grab due to how close they will be and that their roll animation will last long enough to give it away. If they roll behind you, you'll immediately be able to notice it and turn around for a grab. If they wait, you can just wait too.
They are also limited near the edge. Since rolling one way will lead them nowhere, they become more vulnerable of being read.
Reading DI:
Its important to know which way your opponent will try to maneuver after being hit by a move. For example, when getting hit by a Up-smash at low percents, your opponent might want to DI left or right to avoid being hit by another one. If you predict which way they're going to move, you might get to hit them with an aerial move or maybe even a grab if you're lucky.
You also need to put yourself in your opponent's shoes for this one. They will be trying to go for the safest option, so you should be thinking about what seems safe at the time for them.
When being knocked into the air with a Up-smash, their options are limited to:
Air dodging while trying to land
Using their mid-air jump
Using an aerial to try to stop you from hitting them and
Moving either left or right
If they air dodge and land, just grab them. You probably won't be seeing that one very often though. If they use their mid-air jump, you can either use both your jumps and try to hit them with a Uair, or wait for them to fall and try to grab them as they land. If they use an aerial, if should be pretty easy to perfect shield it because you'll know when its coming (about a second before they hit the ground). If they go left or right, just follow their movements and grab them as they land.
Combos and Strings
Since Ice Climbers both attack at almost the same time, almost everything you do is a guaranteed 2-hit combo! But when actually trying to link moves together (outside of grabs of course), you'll want to pay a lot of attention attention to knockback and your opponent's movements.
A very easy combo-able move is Utilt. It has low knockback and can lead into itself at low percents. Just like with all combos, it gets a LOT better if you can manage to desynch it. The move practically always have a hitbox on top of you if you can get Popo and Nana to be doing the moves at different times. This makes it a lot harder for your opponent to escape it if they're at low damage.
Combos:
Combos are generally difficult to do in this game due to low hitstun, but they ARE still possible. A few moves that are good for leading into combos are:
Utilt
Uair
When combining them at low percents, it becomes a lot easier to rack up damage without the need of a grab.
Being quick is essential for getting combos, so you'll have to be fast with your fingers to be able to respond to your opponent's position quick enough.
Strings:
Strings are much easier to pull off. Whenever you link your moves together, its a string. Uair is very good for doing this. Constantly reading air dodges and using mid-air jumps makes getting a few Uairs consecutively a easier.
Predicting your opponent is a HUGE part of getting off some strings. Reading air dodges, aerial moves, and spot dodges will help you link almost any moves together. Predicting what your opponent is going to do under pressure is a big part of this game, so you'll have to become familiar with it.
Technically, you can string almost any moves together, but normal strings are generally made up of mostly aerials. Your ideal aerials for strings are Nair and Uair, since they don't send the opponent very far and you can get close to them to hit them with something else again.
Whenever you have your Ice Climbers out of sync, head towards your opponent! Desynching is amazing for setting up strings because it essentially removes your opponent options of air dodging and spot dodging. Since the Ice Climbers will constantly be attacking, the opponent will still get hit in between dodges.
Defense
Defense is just as important as offense. Especially because this is Brawl. In this section we'll go over the Ice Climbers' defensive options.
Baiting and Punishing:
Ice Blocks and you!
The Ice Blocks (B) are a great attack for forcing approaches. They stay out on the field until they melt or fall offstage. Using desynched Ice Blocks keeps a constant barrage of projectiles of the field that are annoying and can't just be ignored. Using Ice Blocks from afar to force your opponent to come to you and then punishing works great.
Keeping your opponent in check: Punishing
There are quite a few options to punish your opponents' mistakes. Something the Ice Climbers excel in. From damage piling to taking a stock in the blink of an eye, there's always options to make your opponent think twice about messing up again
Shield Grab -> Dead
This is the most used punisher used by most ICs so that will be covered first. It's quite simple really. Wait for your opponent to use a laggy attack on your shield, grab them, and take their stock. The problem with this is that the Ice Climbers slide rather far when their shield is hit. Use at your own risk. If you miss the grab, you get punished instead.
Down Tilt Out of Shield
When the opponent makes you slide out of grab range, this is a nice alternative. It's a quick attack with nice range that resets you and your opponents' positioning.
Blizzard
If you do get your opponent to approach, give them a short hopped Blizzard to the face, or a desynched Blizzard for a grab.
Out-of-Shield Options
The first thing you should know about the ICs' shield:
There's a 6 frame delay in their shield. This means that when you shield, Nana won't shield at exactly the same time, and she won't attack out of her shield at the same time you do. This is very troublesome for some matchups, so look out for it.
Squall Hammer Out of Shield
If you're going to try to pull this off, wait until the ICs are synched back after shielding. If not, you're gonna do a lame desynched Squall Hammer.
Neutral Air Out of Shield
Not a very spectacular option, but it's an option nonetheless. When your shield is attacked, do a rising N-Air to get them away from you.
Unfortunately the Ice Climbers don't have many out of shield options. Most of their defensive play is revolved around punishing mistakes. Having a lot of slide when attacked and a 6 frame difference doesn't help at all.
Spacing
The Ice Climbers have fairly bad range. Here are some attacks that may help keep your distance:
Ground Attacks:
- Forward Tilt
- Down Tilt
- Jab (to an extent)
- Forward Smash
Special Attacks:
- Blizzard (Probably the ICs' best attack for spacing)
- Ice Blocks
Aerials:
- Back Air (Rising B-Air/Falling B-Air)
- Up Air (From below)
Recovering
What is DI?:
SDI:swordgard said:
Momentum Canceling:swordgard said:
Momentum Canceling is a technique used to cancel some of the flying momentum you gain when you get hit towards the boundaries. To preform this, you must use your fastest aerial, and then fastfall. Ice Climbers fastest aerial is Upair, using upair will increase your chances at surviving a powerful attack. Dair is used for in-air stalling, meaning you'll "float" in the air if you still have upwards momentum. Without upwards momentum you'll preform a regular Dair, and fall to the stage faster.
If you still have further questions or want more detailed explanations and additional information on DI, please refer to this thread.
Recovery:
The process in which you use special moves and jumps to get back onto the stage safely after getting knocked off.
What is Ice Climbers Recovery Like?:
The Ice Climbers have a different recovery than most, both Climbers need to be present AND synced to get the maximum effectiveness out of a recovery move. Without them in sync, the recovery move is almost near useless. They have 2 means of getting back on stage, Belay and Squall Hammer. Each have their advantages and disadvantages, and when used correctly, they can be hard to gimp.
Getting Back Onstage With Both Ice Climbers Intact
Belay Recovery:
Belay is a tether-like recovery. The only difference is popo will still have a chance to recover if someone is edgehogging, as he is sent flying upwards. This gets good vertical and diagnol distance, and is one of the safest means if no one is edgehogging. Nana also has hitbox frames and invincibility frames on her way up, as to give further protection to get Popo back on stage.
Pro's of recovery:
* Long range
* Nana can edgehog, or secure the edge for Popo
* Has great knockback if it lands a hit
* Nana has invincibility frames
* Can be used from large distances as long as the Ice Climbers are synced.
* Fast traveling after startup.
Con's of recovery:
* Popo is left helpless until reaches ledge
* If it hits whilst recovering, Popo may end up falling to his death
* Easy to edgehog.
* Without Nana, it is greatly nerfed and borderline useless.
* Slow startup speed compared to many Up-B's
Squall Hammer Recovery:
Squall Hammer recovery has one of the best Vertical distances in the game, being able to recovery from the bottom of Final Destination. When both climbers are in sync, repeatedly pressing B will give you vertical and horizontal distance, this can surprise your opponent and also give you some protection as the hitbox is around both Ice climbers. However, if there is an object/opponent in the way of your squall (meaning squall hits something) your vertical distance will decrease.
Pro's of recovery:
* One of the greatest vertical distance recoveries, fast, harder to edgehog than others.
* Faster than the Climbers fast fall when used without mashing B, so can be safer to get back on stage when above it.
* Has decent horizontal distance as well.
* Good priority.
Con's of recovery:
* Can only be used best with both climbers.
* They can be hit out of it
* Must be relatively close and synced.
* One ice climber is usually left free-falling if only one climber is hit.
* Vertical height is lessened if you hit an opponent
Solo Climber Recovery: There's always the time when the Ice Climbers get separated, or Nana dies. If Nana gets sent flying vertically off stage, she'll shoot ice blocks on her way back down, as to make getting back to the stage safer. However, if Popo is alone you'll have to make it back yourself. The best recovery move to use as SoPo (Solo Popo) is Squall Hammer. Repeatedly press B to keep horizontal distance for maximum effectiveness. Belay is only useful as SoPo is you're right beneath the ledge, as it gives little distance. They can both be easily interrupted and punished, though.
Ice Climbers Advanced Techs
After looking at the basic combats of the Ice Climbers, you will come across to see their unique, technical, and special techniques, and this includes forms of desynching and forms of chaingrabbing. Unfortunately, it is very challenging to pull off such techniques when you do not know how to play as the Ice Climbers; at first, you may think that it's going to be pretty easy to pull of a chaingrab after you've seen a chaingrab video, but as you pull it off you'll realize it was hard to do.
What you must do to learn these techniques is:
- You must know how to play the Ice Climbers; learning their techniques at first without
learning their basic combats will make your Ice Climbers kind of a spammy-grab player,
without the use of any other moves.
- As you learn their basic combats in the game, it's possible for you to learn their advanced techs in Training Mode, but I warn you, having patience is the key to learn this stuff; the fact that the Ice Climbers have a very high learning curve, you need patience to practice so you don't get angry or whatnot that you can't even do it.
- Another thing is when people ask so many questions on how to desynch and chaingrab, this is the place, but then again you MUST learn their basic combats first.
Desynching
When it comes to this technique, desynching, you can control Popo and Nana at once, instead of Nana mimicing your moves. It's basically means that when Popo is using any kind of move, such as Squall, you can control Nana next to use another move, like Blizzard, creating a Blizz-Squall wall for example.
Desynching is helpful in many ways: Approaching, combo-ing, damage dealing, defense, spacing, etc. There's also several ways to desynch; although we missed our spotdodge desynch, there's also several in Brawl. Some include:
- Starting desynch: Hold down a button before the match starts. If this happens, Nana can take action.
- Dashdance: Dashdance back and forth, then use a special move, and should desynch one of the climbers.
- Hitlag: When using any kind of move, such as f-smash, you can feel & see the hitlag throughout the move OR when you see the Ice Climbers using f-smash at the same time.
- Belay: When Nana lands after this move you can desynch them.
- Squall: During the animation, input a command right before it ends, and you can desynch Nana after.
- Stutter f-smash/d-smash: Dash at the right quickly, then f-smash at the left (doesn't matter which direction) and should make Nana dash and Popo f-smash. D-smash is more harder to perform though. It's like the stutter f-smash but you must put the c-stick on the lower right or left, pointing southeast or southwest.
- Ice Shot Hop: If you keep jumping while shooting ice blocks, either Popo or Nana will have a little delay from landing and jumping repeatedly, causing them to desynch. Applies to fastfall desynch.
- Blonde Roll: Hit back and press the shield button. This will result on both climbers rolling at the opposite direction.
- Grabbing: After Popo's single throw, you can input a command for Nana.
- And more!
As listed earlier, desynch is also used to combo, dealing more damage to your opponents. The Ice Climbers' special moves and smashes are desynced easily, due to the fact that they last longer than any of their moves. Although you can desynch their aerials as well, but the timing is strict; desynching aerials and specials is also a good idea.
Desynchs include:
- Chaingrabbing
- Shorthopped Blizzards
- Shorthopped/Grounded Squalls
- Shorthopped/Grounded Ice Shots
- Aerials
- Taunts
Chain Grab
This is the most popular, overused technique used for the Ice Climbers. As said before, many people tend to ask how to chaingrab before learning their basic combats, and we Ice
Climbers convince you to do that. This, by far,is one of the most hardest techs to master by skill. There are at least 39 timings for each character, forward, backward, and down throws, many chaingrabs, and many grab combos. Online, though, is harder, and it reduces the chances of making a 0-death. BUT if you practice their chaingrabs online very well, you're most likely capable of 0-death'ing online, but then again, online is sometimes considered irrelevent for the Ice Climbers, so the Ice Climbers offline is considered to bebetter than online.
Note:
- This guide is for GC controller users, so you must use a GC controller, because it's the easiest controller to use when you're going to chaingrab. If you use just a Wiimote, it's
quite challenging, and if you use a Wiichuck, it's pretty much in the middle, almost like the GC controller though.
Chaingrabbing is involved by desynching, since you control two at once. Although there is a chaingrab that involves by only a solo climber, which is the down throw, that works mostly for fast-fallers such as Sheik and Fox.
Characters that will be used in Training Mode: I suggest you use Marth because he's pretty much the easiest character to chaingrab for beginners, so let's start.
F-throw
Let's start off with our f-throw, their most basic throw. All you have to do is grab with Popo (press Z), then tilt FORWARD on the control stick (slightly) to move Nana so she doesn't run, then grab again after she throws. Pretty simple right? The problem for Ice Climbers beginners is that Nana always seem to run instead of just walking and then grabbing, so be careful about that. Keep practicing this until you get used to the timing AND then practice it against the other characters because each characters' timing varies. Once you're used to this you can move onto the d-throws and b-throws.
D-throw
D-throw is random, especially at higher percentages. This throw works better on lower percentages, heavy weights, and light weights when doing the b-throw -> d-throw combination.
To perform this, grab with Popo (press Z), then tilt the DOWN on the control stick (slightly) to make Nana move so she doesn't run, then grab after. This timing SLIGHTLY varies for each character, so you won't notice a change of the timing, but at higher percentages, you will.
B-throw
B-throw is the most challenging throw you will ever practice, because the whole cast has a bunch of different timings due to their weight, plus inputting the command for each character is pretty hard. Since we're doing this on Marth, grab with Popo (press Z), tilt the control stick slightly backwards to turn around and move Nana (so she doesn't run), and then press Z after you release the control stick. For heavy weights, you will have to tilt and hold the control stick longer to make Nana run
and grab him. Sometimes Nana won't even run before grabbing the heavy weight, and by doing that you'll have to release the control stick earlier but you'll still have to hold it longer.
And finally, forlight weights. Certain light weight characters are hard to b-throw, such as Jigglypuff and Zamus, but easier on some, like Kirby and Pikachu. To perform this, you'll have to grab with Popo, then tilt the control stick slightly backwards then QUICKLY grab again.
Keep getting used to these timing and you're ready for advanced throws.
Once you have learned these throws, it's time for throws. You can make a variety of chain throws you want, an easy chaingrab for you to 0-death easily, a flashy chaingrab, etc.
These chaingrabs include hobbling, buffering throws, iceblock lock to grab, etc.
Hobbling
Hobbling is the technique in which you f/d/b/u-throw them, footstool your opponent, and once they fall onto the ground, you're able to use Ice Shot to them, forcing them to stand
up instead of rolling and get-up attacking. Hobbling has 4 different throws you're able to do, the f-throw, d-throw, b-throw, and the rare u-throw. Some are quite easy to do, mostly for b-throw, making u-throw the hardest, and each character possesses different timings (of course).
It should be noted that Hobbling is slower than the other chaingrabs because of the low damage output, and the fact that you have to wait for Nana to catch back up after Hobbling someone. Also, the Ice Blocks can be SDI'd.
F-throw and D-throw Hobbling
The f-throw hobbling works very well on most characters, making the light weight being the most easiest to perform the f-throw hobble. The other, d-throw, is also similar, but does
6% instead of 8% (f-throw). Unfortunately , it doesn't work against Bowser and some fast-fallers, because of Bowser's
early get-up animation, he gets-up early, and on the other hand for fast-fallers, they fall fast on the ground, so when you use Ice Shot on them, they won't get up. To perform this, either use f-throw or d-throw for Popo. Then, QUICKLY run and REPEATEDLY tap the jump button to make Nana footstool your opponent. Finally, quickly use your Ice Shot, forcing themselves to stand up, then grab and repeat the process.
B-throw Hobbling
This throw is similar to the f-throw and d-throw hobbles, except that you footstool backwards. This also works best for some heavier characters, while certain light weights need timing in order to get footstooled, such as Marth and Meta Knight. To perform this, do a b-throw with Popo, then QUICKLY and REPEATEDLY tap the jump button to make Nana footstool your opponent. Obviously when Popo does the b-throw he turns around, so use Ice Shot immediately, and grab again once he/she gets up.
U-throw Hobbling
This throw is quite rare; the first throw to be used as a chaingrab, specifically hobbling. It works with certain characters, such as Marth, which is the character that is easily
hobbled by this throw, needs precise timing. Since there are various timings on each character, it's mostly done by: Start a u-throw with Popo -> after executing this throw for a while (meaning during the move), tap the jump button repeatedly and Nana should footstool. Then turn around and use Ice Shot, and then grab again. This is easily done by lower percents and it should be a bit harder at higher percents, but to be honest, I'm not really too sure.
Other throws
Other throws include buffered throws like buffered b-throw to f-throw & buffered f-throw, pivot throws, throw variations, flashy chaingrabs, etc. You can simply make any chaingrab
you want--it's people's choice, although many prefer b-throw to d-throw, which is pretty easy to performed when mastered, but if you want a "flashy" chaingrab, use pivot grabs and throw variations, and it can appeal a lot of people. For a fun grab activity, use buffered grabs such as the buffered f-throw, which is very hard to perform, plus the risk at competitive play. It's a throw to freak people out who don't know that kind of grab.
FAQ [Frequently Asked Questions]
How important is the Ice Climbers' desynch game?
Well, it depends on the situation and your opponent. If you're fighting a character that's heavy on projectiles like R.O.B. , Peach, and Snake, desynching would be a bad idea because a simple projectile can ruin that entire plan. It is definitely an important aspect of the Ice Climbers though. You should learn it.
What are the Ice Climbers' worst matchups?
Pretty much anyone with a lot of range or a wide range of projectiles can give the Ice Climbers trouble. Here are their worst matchups:
Metaknight
60:40 Not impossible, but definitely an important matchup to know. Metaknight has the speed, gimping ability, and range to keep the ICs in trouble the entire match. He can 0-Death Nana with no problem if she gets too far away so stay close to Nana the entire match. Platform camp him and use lots of UpAir and Blizzard and you should be fine. R.O.B [BEING DEBATED]
60:40 Definitely a lame matchup. He can gimp, he can camp (very very well), he can stay away from you the entire match if he needs to. And there's that ******** DSmash that sends us in two separate directions. You have to stay under him the entire match. Spam lots of squall because it pops him straight up, then use lots of UpAirs. I'm not sure what else to tell you about this matchup. It's really stupid. I'd consider getting a secondary for this one....Snake
70:30 ...and this one too. Where to begin? He can keep a grenade in his hand to interrupt chaingrabs, he can camp, he's extremely powerful, if Nana gets too far away, she's definitely eating at least 20% or dieing, and he's heavy. Luckily, bad Snakes recover predictable, so you can probably F-Air him out of Cypher or grab him. The good Snakes though...good luck. You're gonna have to watch him EXTREMELY carefully or you're going to get beaten pretty easily. lrn2dedede. Princess Peach
60:40 Turnip, turnip, turnip, Down Air x 3, turnip, bad KO move. That's pretty much Peach in a nutshell, but it works. It's hard to do much about her Down Air except wait it out and attempt to punish. Try to take advantage of that bad vertical recovery with a FAir spike out of a chaingrab. You can SDI her DAir as well. This makes it easier to punish. She loses on the ground, but wins in the air.Best Secondaries?
You might need to find a good secondary for the Ice Climbers. They have far too many bad stages, and can be camped very easily. Here are some good options:
- "Almost Snake counter". Another chaingrabbing character that covers some of the ICs' lamer matchups. Only two bad matchups, and he counters Game and Watch. High learning curve however. Secondary Marth at your own risk. He's Metaknight. 'nuff said. Kirby does very well on the Ice Climbers' worst stages like Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, and Brinstar. A very nice choice for a secondary.Best Ice Climbers players?
Lain and meepxzero.
Best and worst stages?
Pretty much any moving stage or any stage with a lot of hazards is bad for us. We can't chaingrab in those kind of stages and it's easier for the opponent to play keep away.
Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Port Town Aero Drive, Brinstar, and Japes are pretty bad stages for the Ice Climbers.
Our best stages are Final Destination, Battlefield, and Smashville.
Credits
I had help with this, haha. Can't take all the glory. :3
Barge - Recovery
ChibiIceClimberz - Advanced Techniques
Bnzaaa - Offense
Sasukebowser - Offense Part 2
The Ice Climbers boards for convincing me enough times that we needed a new guide
Dekuu <3 for the Attack Pictures
Exia00 for the AMAZING banner
Format inspired by: Generating a Win: An Electrifying Guide to Pikachu
