Dash Slam or Dash Slash?

[Wrexsoul]

Hey folks! I've recently taken time to farm out Big B's custom moves, and so far I've mostly been toying around with Dash Slash. I like it a lot, but before I get too settled in I'd like to hear from you folks about both side specials, their pros and cons, and various cool stuff you can do with them (like how Dash Slash autocancels from a SH, woop). So basically,

1) Which one would you recommend in general play? Any specific matchups that favours one over the other?

2) Any cool techniques/tricks with either move you want to tell a custom noob about?

Cheers!

 

[LIQUID12A]

Dash Slam is my favorite Side B bar none. The lack of height in the jump itself is negligible when you can surprise opponents that would normally be out of your grab range with a dash.

 

[MrEh]

Dash Slash is the best one because it beats a lot and gives you the most maneuverability.

Dash Slam loses to everything once people start challenging it and going for trades.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Dash slash also says **** you to any small projectile.

And dash slash into fortress or bowser bomb is pretty great.

 

[S_B]

Until they properly balance dash slam, avoid it like the plague.

I haven't tested it personally but people are saying it still gives the opponent more control, meaning that this will allow enemies to steer you over the edge and kill you very easily.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Dash Slam absolutely wrecks Sonic's Side B. But I haven't found any other MU where you should take it over Dash Slash. Dash Slam can kill if you land near the edge at high percents. But since the move still gives up so much control to the victim, you don't want to chance unintentional Bowsercide to an attack that kills about as late as Bowser's Dtilt. Flying Slam can at least get early kills on Smashville and Battlefield, and that's a much more reasonable excuse for using the move now that Bowser has more control.

Dash Slash is kind of amazing. There aren't very many wrong ways to use it. Waveslashing is relatively easy and rewards additional practice by letting you modify how far you want to travel. The only drawback to Dash Slash is that it takes around 15 frames for any hitbox to come out. So it won't combo break, but its hitbox is massive. Much more hit confirms than either of the command grabs.

 

[S_B]

The other reason I'd prefer dash slash is that it makes Bowser slippery which is something he absolutely never was before. Not only can you use it to go in quick for a punish on a whiff that you otherwise wouldn't have made it into, but you can also use it to move AWAY from things, as well as change Bowser's aerial position at a moment's notice.

This means you can recover HIGH, which is something you could never really do (unless you WANTED to be hit with a free smash attack).

Then, there's the fact that you can act immediately on landing with it which is just insane...

 

[MagiusNecros]

It basically turns his other specials into dash attacks

 

[S_B]

Here's a good example, actually:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0oMY_4vxnA

Bowser ultimately loses to ROB's hijinks here, but you'll notice there are a number of times where he uses the move to close the gap and get a punish where he otherwise wouldn't have, and he also manages to use it to escape after his approach turns sour.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Found one nonstandard use for Dash Slam.

Jab 1 > Dash Slam

You hit thing and then you lunge forward and grab your opponent. Your opponent has to have super reaction time to roll, jump or dodge out of the way or hope they can put out an attack fast enough. And most jabs can be Tough Guy'd.

And since Jab 1 knockback is fixed you can do this any time you want.

And if the opponent Shields well...you get grabbed anyway.

 

[MrEh]

Jab 1 >Dash Grab does the same thing though. And it's faster.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Jab 1 >Dash Grab does the same thing though. And it's faster.

Dash grab begins on frame 10 as opposed to frame 9.

Though a question I have regarding dash slam is it stops momentum. Is this only in regards to Bowser's waveslash or would it also stop wind effects?

 

[MrEh]

Dash Slam comes out on frame 15.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Makes sense. But you're right with dash grab being faster and you can do the same damage with a normal throw anyway. So dash slash is the bonafide go to option. I just wish his customs were better then they are.

 

[MrEh]

It would be less confusing if the initial frame data dump for the game wasn't all mixed up.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Played quite a few matches today and Dash Slash makes a huge difference in the way fights play out. After an aerial slash you can pretty much turn anything into a dash attack. I ended a few lives today with Dash Slash Upsmashes.

I probably won't ever want to change his Side B to anything else.

 

[MrEh]

Dash Slash -> fair is the most consistent combo you can probably get out of Dash Slash. Pretty easy to hit confirm as long as there's not too much lag.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I used to like Dash slam more, but the reduced distance Bowser slides coupled with the fact that it has no hitbox to fend off trades makes it less useful than I thought.
Once people start realizing to treat dash slam like Captain Falcon's dash grab (by jabbing it out, or throwing out ANY hitbox), Dash slam loses its effectiveness. It only really works on people who hold shield for too long out of fear.

Dash Slash is excellent because it grants Bowser the most mobility.
Slash to utilt, usmash, fair, uair, ftilt (if you land behind someone), Dtilt, the possibilities are almost endless. :D

Need to do more testing. Obviously, this attack isn't fool proof - it can still be beaten out by disjoints and stronger attacks IIRC. And it's unsafe on shield because while it doesn't have landing lag per se, you still go through a landing animation during which you can be punished.

 

[Cronoc]

I used to like Dash slam more, but the reduced distance Bowser slides coupled with the fact that it has no hitbox to fend off trades makes it less useful than I thought.
Once people start realizing to treat dash slam like Captain Falcon's dash grab (by jabbing it out, or throwing out ANY hitbox), Dash slam loses its effectiveness. It only really works on people who hold shield for too long out of fear.

Dash Slash is excellent because it grants Bowser the most mobility.
Slash to utilt, usmash, fair, uair, ftilt (if you land behind someone), Dtilt, the possibilities are almost endless. :D

Need to do more testing. Obviously, this attack isn't fool proof - it can still be beaten out by disjoints and stronger attacks IIRC. And it's unsafe on shield because while it doesn't have landing lag per se, you still go through a landing animation during which you can be punished.

I agree with you about Dash Slash except for some of your last paragraph. If you crossup your opponent with DS the landing time will be negligable compared to the time it'll take them to drop shield and turn around (for all but top players). If you don't crossup it's up to you to space DS as well as possible so you land just out of grab range while beginning your DS as close to the ground as possible to reduce landing time. Inexperience with the spacing and movement by your opponent can screw that up. But yeah, you never want to aerial DS into someone's shield unless your DS is going to crossup, and at a height where they're less likely to grab you. Grounded DS isn't mentioned because it's only for surprises and long range punishes.

 

[Corgian]

Yeah, Dash Slash is just too good. It's solid, safe mobility, and is one of the best approach tools in the game. All of Bowser's side-b's have immediate action on landing, but Dash Slash is the only one that has a big meaty hitbox that is way harder to challenge than the command grabs. Both Dash Slam and Dash Slash offer better mobility, but Dash Slash is more reliable for recovery and getting in than is Dash Slam. In fact, something that happens which is a real pain is if your opponent has a stock lead and you're off-stage and recovering using Dash Slam, they can gimp you with your own command grab by jumping in front of you. Dash Slash also chains into itself at good range of percents, and it gives our turtle a psuedo-combo game. It's a very safe move that's difficult to challenge, which provides a character that has never experienced mobility far more than he ever bargained for.

Command grabs are good, don't get me wrong. However, in the case of Bowser, it is far more worth it to give it up for Dash Slash. If you really want a massive grab to use, pivot grab on landing from Dash Slash.

 

[MrEh]

Pivot grab is more of a command grab than Klaw is.

Range is like AE L SPD. It's ridiculous.

 

[Cassius.]

after playing a bit more, and heading to various tournaments over the weekend, I will say that the default side b is still ****. It cost me a GFs set. BUT!!!!!! despite all its headaches, it does its job. It's still a command grab, and it's still a move that kills VERY early (even without rage!) I think I'm starting to figure out the proper ranges for it, and now that we have more control over the move, it is a bit more satisfactory to use. This brings it from a 1 in happiness ratings to...a 2.5.

but that's not what this thread is about.

I'm not sure what I think about Dash Slam. It's really awkward to use in the air because there is a brief pause before he actually moves, but it is a mobile command grab so I guess that's cool for what it's worth. To be honest though, you have to weigh your options. If you're thinking of using Dash Slam, you DO still have a dash grab and a pivot grab, which after a pummel & throw will come close to matching/exceeding the reduced damage of dash slam at the cost of just playing neutral a bit differently (it's really not that hard). You may be better off either giving yourself more mobility/a "combo" game with Dash Slash, or giving yourself a guaranteed kill move by sticking with the default side-b.

Don't forget, with each use of Dash Slam, you are throwing yourself at your opponent in a game where grabs do not have armor. Think about that for a second. Our pivot grab is already great at scooping opponents, especially airborne ones, and doesn't really suffer from the "****, I have to worry about trades" problem due to its disjoint aside from dash attacks.

Dash Slash is good, we all know that.

The beauty of Smash is that most sets involve anywhere between 2-5 games. Analyze your opponent! If you see that your opponent is scared of you and is prone to shielding, or is the kind of player that uses grabs from a defensive manner (ie shieldgrabs, which a lot of newer Smash 4 players do too much of) set your Bowser up with a command grab! If he likes playing the zoning game or waits for you to over-commit, play it back with him by adding a mobile, combo-based threat to your game. You're never stuck to one option per set, and sometimes Vanilla Bowser is just fine.

 

[S_B]

Dash Slash -> fair is the most consistent combo you can probably get out of Dash Slash. Pretty easy to hit confirm as long as there's not too much lag.

This needs to be reiterated: dash slash gives Bowser an actual combo, in addition to all of its other applications.

If you manage to hit with the early part of the hitbox, you can usually land and get that F-tilt in (and possibly other things).

 

[Cronoc]

I've been getting mileage off of aerial dash slash into utilt lately. And a super aggressive opening salvo to try on Battlefield is running off the platform you start on into dash slash into grab. If your opponent drops through their platform this feels pretty safe, though after doing this to someone a couple times they were able to shield grab my dash slash. There's always a risk with Bowser... If they don't drop through the plaform, runoff dash slash into utilt is another good opening move on Battlefield. Have I mentioned I've been playing on Battlefield a lot lately? It's probably why the DS into utilt is working for me, I can cover the two side platforms with it, and often get there faster than my opponent thinks I can.

 

[MagiusNecros]

This needs to be reiterated: dash slash gives Bowser an actual combo, in addition to all of its other applications.

If you manage to hit with the early part of the hitbox, you can usually land and get that F-tilt in (and possibly other things).

At low percents DS > Dtilt will work. Well anything will work and at mid high percents hitting with DS props them up for a Fair and they probably can't do anything about it.

If they shield you can go for a grab or attempt Jab 1 setups.