DI'ing/Surviving with Sonic

[Khaoz]

(Not too sure if this has been already discussed or if there's somewhere else I should look for info concerning this. If so I apologize and please direct me to it...)


I am mainly just curious as to what everyone thinks or does as far as DI'ing/surviving goes with Sonic.

I typically use the Fair when I get hit to the left or right, then the ASC but not too sure if that's actually the best option, or if I should use the Dair instead...(I've also heard that Up-B helps?? O_o)


Just curious what everyone else does.

 

[ShadoFiend]

Fair and jump.its what I do and it works too good.

 

[Kinzer]

You use Dair when you want to make easier on your opponent to kill you.

Actually, this question could've been put in the rFAQ, but since I'm here I might as well help you out.

You get sent offstage with any attack, the best thing for you to do is Fastfall a Fair. Fair is the aerial that ends the earliest for Sonic, so you want to opt to Fair when you get knockback from an attack.

The next thing to do is to momentum-cancel with ASC. Doing Aerial Spin Charge after you Fastfall Fair will allow you to completely negate all knockback and save you from death (assuming you were going to die without MCing. There's no hope if you got FSmashed by Ike at 999%, you are going to die because the hitstun and knockback are far too extreme in values to give you enough time to do proper MCing).

The reason Neither Dair or Up-B help is because Dair not only takes up too much time to end, but because any kind of momentum-shifting aerial (Zero Suit's Dair, Lucario's Dair, Sheik's Dair, to name some examples not including Sonic's Dair) don't have any effect in knockback. In the case that you use Up-B too early, you will still be suffering knockback that you didn't negate from before and you may end up getting killed while Spring Jumping.

Apply directional influence like you normally would with any other situation. With a kill-move that sends you horizontal, DI up. With a Kill-move that sends you vertical, DI to the Left or Right. It's perpendicular.

 

[Kupo Rose]

What Kinzer saiiiid. Also, if you're curious on how to DI certain characters moves, da K.I.D made a thread for help on that http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258911

It's not really finished though.


edit: Iirc you'll get an extra "boost" as well if you use UpB/HA whilst still in knockback. So no, UpB doesn't help. It's just killing you faster :/

 

[Tenki]

edit: Iirc you'll get an extra "boost" as well if you use UpB/HA whilst still in knockback. So no, UpB doesn't help. It's just killing you faster :/

UpB, HA, and side-B

;/

though if you're not in danger of having that small boost kill you, side-B is an amazing recovery option (range wise)

 

[ShadoFiend]

Fair and jump is sooooo much better than the asc. Like..really.

 

[Tenki]

I think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heEflKvN6ts

 

[Chis]

That's happened to me a few times. It's due to DIing into the stage and when you hit it, you lose some momentum.

 

[Tenki]

well, not just that.

If you bounce off of a floor, it kills hitstun.

So he floorbounced > instant spinshot lol

if only it was reliable :<

 

[Chis]

Yeah that's what I was kind of saying lol.

if only it was reliable :<

Yeah :/

 

[Camalange]

Fair and jump is sooooo much better than the asc. Like..really.

Stop trolling.

ASC stops all momentum and sends Sonic forward, you scrub of a child. Fair > Jump is garbz. It's all about the FF Fair > DownB

 

[Khaoz]

Actually, this question could've been put in the rFAQ, but since I'm here I might as well help you out.

ah, ok...sorry about that...

What Kinzer saiiiid. Also, if you're curious on how to DI certain characters moves, da K.I.D made a thread for help on that http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258911

It's not really finished though./

Ah....ok. I will definitely check this out...






Thanks for the responses everyone.

So the side-B does not help to negate momentum at all?


And does actually charging the ASC help at all or is simply activating it just as effective?

 

[Kinzer]

It does, but since Sonic moves because and takes longer before he release his Side-B, You'd want to use ASC instead.

A single charge will do, just make sure you don't get the dead-charge by being too hasty.

 

[Camalange]

Side B will draw you CLOSER to the blast zone, which = bad.

 

[infomon]

Stop trolling.

ASC stops all momentum and sends Sonic forward, you scrub of a child. Fair > Jump is garbz. It's all about the FF Fair > DownB

wait wait wait

as much as I championed the FF Fair > ASC option......... tbh I'm not absolutely sure that that there don't exist circumstances in which Jump is better than ASC. Most of the time it will be ASC that's better, but suppose this circumstance: you're fairly close to the blastzone and you get hit with a relatively low-hitstun move.... then it's conceivable to me that there are times where the Jump won't give enough push-back momentum to kill you, but you'll die if you try ASC instead simply because you don't have enough time to release it before you hit the blastzone. I'm not sure about this though, it's just a "feeling" I get sometimes.

So the side-B does not help to negate momentum at all?

The moment that either side-B or down-B are *released*, they immediately cancel all momentum. And while they both come out on the same frame (iirc), side-B gives you unfriendly momentum during the pullback frames when you're in knockback (no matter which "direction" you face with the side-B, and even if you try to wavebounce it or w/e).

And does actually charging the ASC help at all or is simply activating it just as effective?

Charging it does not help whatsoever. In fact charging it doesn't do anything at all to an ASC. The only thing that charging down-B does is that it will go faster if it lands on the ground.

 

[Camalange]

I'd much rather go with DownB than take my chances with a jump. DownB stops all momentum, and that's a guarantee.

 

[BSP]

I'd much rather go with DownB than take my chances with a jump. DownB stops all momentum, and that's a guarantee.

Me too. I'd go for the safer option, since the jump can still get you killed.

On a side note, make sure you always do something to momentum cancel, because it really sucks when you die early thinking you were ok.

 

[da K.I.D.]

unless youre fighting a pika.

fastfall fair to side b is the option that gives you the most horizontal recovery, and the most options for getting back to the stage.

 

[Tenki]

I'm pretty sure this has been confirmed already, but just to double check,

Does F-air come out (break hitstun) earlier than specials by themselves?

 

[da K.I.D.]

yes it does.

 

[Tenki]

thought so-

wondering if it's more effective to f-air>FF> ? or to try to wait out until special can cancel hitstun.

 

[-Axis-]

What about vertical knockback? It's still just FF Fair, correct? Also, does down-b cancel vertical knockback in addition to horizontal?

 

[da K.I.D.]

yes and yes.

 

[infomon]

wondering if it's more effective to f-air>FF> ? or to try to wait out until special can cancel hitstun.

Specials can't be used until hitstun is over (which is a little before knockback finishes, for most moves (I'm not sure how "extra-hitstun" moves work, like Gdorf's nonsense)). That being said, I'm sure there are circumstances in which it's better to wait for hitstun to end naturally rather than using Fair to escape hitstun. That is, if knockback is very low but you're close to the killzone, just jump towards the stage asap rather than Fair'ing instinctively. I... think.....

What about vertical knockback? It's still just FF Fair, correct? Also, does down-b cancel vertical knockback in addition to horizontal?

Down-B helps vertical too as KID said, so if the FF Fair won't save you from the vertical killzone then immiediately down-B. There's a very small % window where this can help you, more noticeable if it's a very high ceiling ex. Jungle Japes. But it's there.

 

[Tenki]

My question was more related to whether (for example) f-air>down-B would get to ASC faster than just waiting>down-B though =/

Down-B helps vertical too as KID said, so if the FF Fair won't save you from the vertical killzone then immiediately down-B. There's a very small % window where this can help you, more noticeable if it's a very high ceiling ex. Jungle Japes. But it's there.

Is that so?

I guess since it's your 'own momentum' after you release down-B, you can't vertically die from that.

But I'm pretty sure you can ASC upwards as well as downwards. Ex: making a grounded spring, jumping on it and immediately doing ASC --> upwards-traveling ASC.

 

[Camalange]

unless youre fighting a pika.

fastfall fair to side b is the option that gives you the most horizontal recovery, and the most options for getting back to the stage.

But Side-B will increase your chances of dying...

I use Side-B as a recovery option if I still have a jump, but not as a momentum cancel. If I only need the FF Fair, than yeah, I'll go with the Side B, but at high percents I usually just pump out the Down B to play it safe.

 

[infomon]

My question was more related to whether (for example) f-air>down-B would get to ASC faster than just waiting>down-B though =/

Yeah, okay. There are definitely times in which that can happen; low-hitstun/low-knockback. The Fair can only ever help you if it will end sooner than hitstun would; otherwise it's just wasting your time (+ the fastfall effect)

I guess since it's your 'own momentum' after you release down-B, you can't vertically die from that.

But I'm pretty sure you can ASC upwards as well as downwards. Ex: making a grounded spring, jumping on it and immediately doing ASC --> upwards-traveling ASC.

hmmm.... oh yeah, that's interesting. Well I'm sure that down-B halts your vertical momentum, and I remember doing experiments in which down-B allowed me to survive a luigi shoryuken until higher percents. I guess maybe it kills all knockback momentum but not Sonic's own momentum??? which is kinda lolz. I think that makes our down-B categorically unique. Cuz our side-B won't ever rise (aside from its hop), and neither will G&W's bucket amirite? but we can jump + ASC upwards. But it still breaks vertical unfriendly momentum. heh.