DK Improvements *Updated*

[nuro]

Character

He has a new white color. His standing animations are similar to what they were like in the DonkeyKong Country games. He has a new taunt where he slams his fists on his chest a bunch of times like the victory in SSBM along with another one which I haven't seen..

Moves

SideB- Comes out faster. Acts like pitfall item if it is hits on the ground. In the air you don't have as much lag after using it meaning it's probably easier to get meteors with.
DownB- Much farther range especially from behind him and it's faster. In a video it seems if you sweet spot it just right you can rack up damage quickly or maybe it was a glitch / the person was crouch canceling.. It did about 100%ish damage in 3-4 seconds. nothing in the air
UpB- Still the same not sure about the initial frame's strength though.. haven't seen it used yet. Gimpy says has less knockback but im not sure how much if any.
NeutralB- He charges it up much faster. I'd guess it takes about 85% of the time it used to take in SSBM. When you attack with it, it seems to have the same amount of frames that were in SSBM. Gimpy says its weaker, who knows.. You can no longer turn yourself around in the air with this anymore by doing the reverse B trick.

UpAir- He still has it but I'm not sure about its knockback. I haven't seen it hit. Gimpy says it has more stun but less kill power.
ForwardAir- Much Faster compared to melee not sure about its power though.
BackAir- Little faster actually maybe stronger too. Not a big deal but he doesn't stretch his foot as far away as he used to.
NeutralAir-Same
DownAir-Same

ForwardSmash- Claps in the same way he did in melee but more hitbox.
DownSmash- Same from what I can tell.
UpSmash- Same but has slightly more hitbox.

Uptilt- Faster. Same knockback (?).
PimpSlap- Same Slightly more knockback as well as a small bit of range.
Downtilt- Same. Slightly longer and faster

DownThrow- Same. Slightly stronger.
BackThrow- It now sends the person more downward if you throw them off of the edge.
Forward throw- He still has it not sure about the after throws. Hope his forwardthrow->upthrow to upair wasn't nerfed. But since the game has a floatier engine the combo doesn't work as well.

Rising Attack- Insanely good its very long and fast and gets to bothsides of him in no time. not sure about after 100%
Rising Ledge Attack- Same as SSBM maybe even better since he has a larger body now.
RunningAttack- He still sticks his foot out but it's not as laggy as it used to be. it has about 60 or so less frames than it did in SSBM. I am guessing it has combo potential because of this.
Roll- Either slightly faster or same speed. It has a slightly longer range as well.
NormalAttackCombo- Same. One two punch.

Konga Beat- Pulls out bongos to attack in a circular hitbox but can't move. Press buttons to the rhythm to make it gain more hitbox. It has an after affect which makes him stronger for a short amount of time. You can also start this move in the air and float. It attacks about 90% of the stage if used correctly!

It's rumored some of his moves have heavy armor.

Videos

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120074
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7dXIWFXrsY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zfxo4ThurUw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJC2S7ioOwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS9M75xhkYE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IoPLwXlqNI
http://www.gamersreports.com/news/6968/super-smash-bros-brawl-2-videos-in-1-at-e-for-all-expo-2007/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LcstSatAhYs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=A4OFxkXTHPQ
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/116759.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ4Dx331JDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjiLKD9-3g

Overall DK is better. So much better I think he will be my main for SSBB?

 

[Muffin_man]

Anybody know if there's a way to get his Konga Beat any more range? In the video I saw it in, the attack seemed rather useless as Mario simply waited to the other side of Lylat Cruise out of harm's way and waited there.

 

[Jenkins: Spy Monkey]

Anybody know if there's a way to get his Konga Beat any more range? In the video I saw it in, the attack seemed rather useless as Mario simply waited to the other side of Lylat Cruise out of harm's way and waited there.

It could be similar to someone like Metaknight or Link in that you need to be close to activate it. Once someone is hit by it, they may be stuck the whole time. We really won't know until someone gets hit by it I guess.

 

[smashbot226]

DK's biggest improvement is his taunt.

Seriously...

 

[Lumancer]

Wow, lots of info, thanks a bunch! I've always liked DK but he'd never been fantastic in past games. Hopefully he'll be more readily usable in competitive play now. =D

 

[nuro]

Wow, lots of info, thanks a bunch! I've always liked DK but he'd never been fantastic in past games. Hopefully he'll be more readily usable in competitive play now. =D

Actually, DK was always secretly good. In SSB64 he had an infinite grab. DK's Up+B was also deadly in both games and he has always had range over most characters. Even in SSBM he could take out half of the hightiers. DK actually counters fox.

 

[Phlemingo]

Does anyone know if you can use Donkey Kong's Neutral B in mid-air?

 

[smashbot226]

You can, in fact, use it in midair. Not only is it a good aerial move, it looks extremely bada**.

 

[Gkryptonite]

It's all good, as long as his old taunt is still here then I'm happy
whoever goes to E for All, please show more info to ol' Donkey Kong for a few seconds
things like the DD distance and such

 

[TheMastermind]

I really hope that DK becomes a really good character

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

All that I know is that you shouldn't overdo it with DK's smash attacks since they have a rather bad lag afterwards. Use the Giant Punch to take out foes.

 

[kainsword]

Ugh... I was hoping DK would get his Coconut Cannon over his nonsensical Headbutt which has no roots from any game he's been in, that I know of.

Would've been nice to have a rather slow but powerful projectile in similar aspects to Diddy Kong to where you could pick up a coconut afterwards.

His Headbutt never had any range, had horrible start lag, but was an insanely good Meteor Smash if it ever connected off-stage. Knockback is very strong downwards in the air, but I could never for the life of me use it efficiently. It was just a crappy move, I'd rather do a no-charge Giant Punch instead in every situation.

Why did they give Diddy his Peanut Popguns and not give Donkey Kong his Coconut Cannon?! Why?!!

 

[Brahma]

I still think dash attack needs to be the DKC roll. Also down-B in the air needs to be thunder wham like in Mario Soccer.

 

[smashbot226]

To kainsword: Probably because Sakura loved Melee DK's moveset so much, he decided to keep it. Which was a bad move, considering Diddy's moveset.

All in all, DK is a good char, with power AND speed behind his belt. Unfortunately, he has NO RANGE whatsoever and his Final Smash is akin to Pichu in Brawl: useless, weak, and nobody wants to use it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

DK was practically my main in 64, despite how good or bad he may have been...Bleh, he was more unique than being like the only real heavy character and could pick up and carry boxes

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

So, they made DK as powerful as the beast he is supposed to be (C'mon, he's a big ape! How can that be low tier?), except for the final smash which seems to be good as an edge gaurd?

 

[Popertop]

Does anyone know if you can use Donkey Kong's Neutral B in mid-air?

Yeah, you can short hop it to give it ridiculous range.
After you use it in midair, you're done.
I once tried to kill my friend in midair off the stage and missed.
DK just puts his hands around his head and plummets to his doom.
It's pretty hilarious if you want to try it.

 

[El HP]

Nice update i'm curious about his shield it was improved?

 

[Gkryptonite]

Nice update i'm curious about his shield it was improved?

yeah good question someone check it out and compare, his shield was a real problem in melee

 

[SpeedBreaker888]

I am glad DK is better, I like playing with him in Melee, so hearing that he is better in the areas that leave me open is good news for me.

 

[Shark X]

I still with that'd replace that dumb slow weak kick he has as a dash attack, with his classic DKC Barrel Roll. Really the Barrel Roll should of been his Side B.

 

[Luigi player]

Hmm... now that Gimpy updated his DK info I'm not so sure if he'd be even as 'good' as in Melee.
I really hope he'll be at least a little better... and I agree that his roll would be much better than that strange kick nobody wants to use >_>

 

[Formula1]

He should definatly have a down b in the air,
Maybe a clap Making everyone close to him
-obviously it would make him stunned or whatever it is after he uses his up b, but it should be able to be charged and be used as a jump for when he is low

and who ever made the suggestion of a coconut gun for a forward b has some good ideas
I was also thinking as a running grab he reaches out his hand to grab a person, sort of like samus' grab only instead it's his hand

I seriously hate how they are probably not going to change him too much
-Personally I have considered boycotting the game unless they make obvious improvements

 

[Meta_Knight_14]

I have considered boycotting the game unless they make obvious improvements

Good luck with that.

I personally love DK in Melee, to the point where he's my 2nd character (next to Marth). Ya just have to pick your spots with him. You can't mindlessly flail around like you can with some other characters.

Also he's a beast in Team Matches

 

[Formula1]

I can deal with Dk's strong and weakpoints,
Spamming back-a-ariel, People rolling around me do a down b, forward tilts anychance i can

but he has useless moves like his forward b, that in my opinion should just be left out


DK is fun, but not solid

 

[nuro]

Formula1, you have just lost the internet.

I think that the reason they dont add dk with those things is because there needs to be some form of balance to the characters. Take any character and they are likely to have a not so good move. Even high tier characters have moves that "suck". Marth has a terrible upsmash, Sheik has a bad sideb and a bad downb (not that zelda sucks just laggy) fox has a decently bad up-b i could go on.....

every character has strong and weak point u just gotta know to deal with them. DK is definitely solid his sideb is good in very rare occasions too. its a nice edgeguard tool in my book. It doesnt have nearly as much after lag as DK's dair of fair so u can go decently low with it to spike someone u have to be accurate tho.






But anyway DK is a great character as well as everyone else.

btw my grammer doesnt suck its just the time i spend caring about writing this does.

 

[Formula1]

Also i would like to add new additions to my list of moves making it....
-Forward B-Coconut Gun (Kainsword)
-Dashing A-DK roll (Brahma)
-Down B air-Shockwave (Sudospike when charged enough [Impossible to get off though since charging it would send you to far low and no charge would be too weak])(also as a vertical jump when charged)
-Dashing grab-Arm extended single handed grab (king kong style)
-Up smash-Still a clap but also covers a small horizontal area above him (1/2 horizontal, 3/4 vertical

Nuro
Man, if you don't care don't write. I would like it if ever (which is highly unlikely) the makers of ssbb decide to look at the improvements they would consider it.

nuro, is that how you treat all opinions? Or are you just a d-bag to me because I would like quality added to a game where they are just re-adjusting from melee?

DK's forward B makes no sense in terms of games
-But that aside.....
DK's forward B Has very very limited range. Thus making his moves only available when someone is using their up b like fox or link
the move cannot be used when they have an air move available since it can be easily be stopped

This being said, it's useless for most up b's since people usually don't come to the side from the air making you need to jump off to do it which is very risky since when you pull off the forward b off the stage you usually aren't getting back up. Try it out

Plus my additions would not make him an exetremely cheap character
-He still has a giant hitbox
-He still has no counters to projectiles (yoshi's shells, fox's blaster, Link's everything)
-He still doesn't have very many combo abilities like fox does

-He is left to reside on raw power, I say make the raw power accessible like his body and concept allow


Nuro
-So is Zelda balanced? if she was alone?
-Sheik doesn't need a forward b, she's desiel without it
-With marths forward smash you can cover the up smash
-foxes up b has a decent range and speed,

 

[nuro]

I'm not saying all characters are balanced but I will say that they are pretty balanced from what I can see. The only reason a Zelda will suck is because of the person using her.

In the end your going to have to face the facts. DK isnt getting what you want him to get.

I think Sakurai wanted to make DK the character with no projectiles but a very solid melee game and characters like link have very good projectiles but decent melee. Even if this is not necessary what the game turns out to be I bet its what the creators are thinking.

When they made Zelda/Sheik I bet their idea was.. make Zelda the slow one that relies on her powers to fight and move around and lets make sheik the nimble one that isnt as strong but gets more hits off.

And with your points about marths forwardsmash makes up for the up smash I totally agree. But I dont think you agree that DK's DownAir makes up for his sideb.

 

[Formula1]

I agree, they have a concept that they are going after, and alot has to do with each persons ability to play

But if we are to take into consideration each concept DK certainly he is not a well developed character
-Raw power, weight and Range
-While sacrificing Size and Speed

Thus a true monkey grab like bowsers forward B (only no damage unlike bowsers) is along the same lines of range and power

I suppose a Coconut Gun as a forward b is a little much, but I find it as a more worthwhile move and more appropiate then his forward B. Maybe you got a better suggestion then that annoying move (a barrel blast maybe?)



PS: I appreciate your reply nuro, I was a bit worried that you wouldn't reply and the convo would end with my kind of over the top rant

 

[Popertop]

Barrel Blast would be greatly appreciated by most everyone.

 

[Luigi player]

DKs giant punch takes exact the same time to charge. I just tested it. (compared it to a video) I pressed B at the same time as it started. And sometimes I pressed a little too early, and so the one in the video was a little slower finished, but by the same time that I was too early.

Maybe it's 0.05 second faster, but that wouldn't change anything anyway...

It seems like DK got some really annoying nerfs...

Giant Punch: less range, much less knockback, and it doesn't even charge faster...

Oh boy, I really hope his little improvements help him. I'd wish that he will be at least middle tier.. hopefully they'll change a little bit more (or changed already something that helps him and that we don't know right now)...

 

[Icetrash]

Less range on DKs giant punch annoys me. There must be some improvement to his punch....

 

[nuro]

DKs giant punch takes exact the same time to charge. I just tested it. (compared it to a video) I pressed B at the same time as it started. And sometimes I pressed a little too early, and so the one in the video was a little slower finished, but by the same time that I was too early.

Maybe it's 0.05 second faster, but that wouldn't change anything anyway...

It seems like DK got some really annoying nerfs...

Giant Punch: less range, much less knockback, and it doesn't even charge faster...

Oh boy, I really hope his little improvements help him. I'd wish that he will be at least middle tier.. hopefully they'll change a little bit more (or changed already something that helps him and that we don't know right now)...

It only takes 8 spins to fully charge it now. Albeit the way he spins might be slower.

And you can't really judge him yet. We have only seen the demo. The people who played him in the demo were really terrible. For example every DK player in those videos killed themselves at least once or more times.

 

[Erow Devastates]

I hope dk can work good in brawl, he a low tiers twice in 64 and melee... i hope he move up higher :0

 

[Yoshi330]

I say DK's improvement should be replacing that super lame side B move with something much more creative.

 

[Luigi player]

It only takes 8 spins to fully charge it now. Albeit the way he spins might be slower.

And you can't really judge him yet. We have only seen the demo. The people who played him in the demo were really terrible. For example every DK player in those videos killed themselves at least once or more times.

Well, if my eyes don't lie to me it's still ten times (just watched the video again).

And yes it's somehow annoying to see everyone use his forward air to recover or something... >_>

You're right that we can't judge him yet, but from what I read at Gimpyfish's impressions on him it doesn't look that good for him. At least the things that he noticed. There can still be some things in the game that give DK some adventage or something.

 

[nuro]

DK's punch is still quite strong! Maybe it is even more stronger than what gimpy claimed it to be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4lwOjKErEU 8:15

gimpy fish
"things could change, or there could be a sweetspot but from what we saw
it was less effective overall still good and strong
but less effective in range and knockback"

Check near the end of the video. It sends Samus about 70% of the length of battlefield killing her. Still it looks very strong so we probably shouldnt worry about it at least until the game comes out

 

[domiNate]

DK's punch is still quite strong! Maybe it is even more stronger than what gimpy claimed it to be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4lwOjKErEU 8:15

gimpy fish
"things could change, or there could be a sweetspot but from what we saw
it was less effective overall still good and strong
but less effective in range and knockback"

Check near the end of the video. It sends Samus about 70% of the length of battlefield killing her. Still it looks very strong so we probably shouldnt worry about it at least until the game comes out

I checked that out and tested that scenario in melee. I played on battlefield and got Samus around 61% +-2% and tried this multiple times. I could recover every time with Samus using di, which I assumed the Samus in that video did in order to try to recover.

So we're looking at a few possibilites. The power of DK's punch is about the same or possibly slightly stronger, or Samus is a lot weaker. She would have to be a lot weaker because people have said that their lives seem to last longer and it's harder to kill people in brawl compared to melee. So if DK's punch is weaker in knockback, then Samus is much easier to KO this time around. As of right now I feel DK's punch will be about the same or slightly stronger in knockback, but we'll have to wait till the game comes out to truly see.

 

[nuro]

I checked that out and tested that scenario in melee. I played on battlefield and got Samus around 61% +-2% and tried this multiple times. I could recover every time with Samus using di, which I assumed the Samus in that video did in order to try to recover.

So we're looking at a few possibilites. The power of DK's punch is about the same or possibly slightly stronger, or Samus is a lot weaker. She would have to be a lot weaker because people have said that their lives seem to last longer and it's harder to kill people in brawl compared to melee. So if DK's punch is weaker in knockback, then Samus is much easier to KO this time around. As of right now I feel DK's punch will be about the same or slightly stronger in knockback, but we'll have to wait till the game comes out to truly see.

Did Samus survive when you didn't use DI? DI is much more effective in SSBB from what I hear.

And there is still the possibility of a sweetspot with the punch, though I doubt it. Either way I agree with you it seems that DK's punch remained intact or even better! Gimpy likely didn't know what he was talking about. He said the range of the punch was nerfed which isn't true at all. From what I see thats the same range in SSBM so its kind of bizarre how he can say something like that. DK has a larger body which makes even more range than ssbm. Gimpy threw things out of proportion when he talked about DK's punch. It's mostly the same if not better.

When I asked him he didn't seem to credible about it. He didn't seem to give me straight forward answers. He basically told me what he said in the Brawl Talk thread. He says it was notably weaker when it was very slightly weaker if anything.

ANYWAY, the game is coming out in 43 days and 22 hours from the time of this post so we should just wait till then and see for ourselves.

 

[Layupfreak]

Donkey Kong has been buffed ALOT except im doubting the use of his final smash sometimes.