Doc/Mario Dual Main?

[Miasmata]

Howdy Doc boards. I'm new to this character, but not necessarily to Melee. After about a year and a half of Falcon I decided to switch to Doc about two months ago because I thought that he was extremely fun to play.

I was wondering if dual maining Doc and Mario would be an option? I'm curious about all your thoughts on this. They're really similar characters so I figure picking up Mario as a dual main wouldn't be too hard to do. My main question is whether or not it's a good idea to invest the time into him. Does Mario do any better in any matchups that would warrant using him over Doc?

Also, first post. Hiya!

 

[TheBoat]

I've been maining mario and playing a bit of doc on the side for about a year and a bit (been playing for 2.5 years).

Mario's really fun to play. The higher damage (and thus knockback) on his upair, early nair, and bair as well as his quick triple jab make his ground game feel a bit faster. Also his late aerials and cross-up aerials are a bit safer on shield (because of the higher damage), contributing to the better-feeling ground game.

Unfortunately, doc is simply better in pretty much every matchup because of his kill setups. Upair has less damage, so it can combo more consistently into itself, dsmash, fair, or fsmash compared to mario's upair. He's got the dthrow/upthrow fair, +2 damage on his dsmash, a meteor upsmash, and a really good bair that ends edgeguards quickly (as well as a much taller cape).

I think mario can be slightly better versus characters like falcon, sheik, or ganon depending on the player you're playing against. I've thought in the past that mario could be better or just as good versus spacies as doc is, but mario's kills end up coming down to hard reads a bit too often. Doc's upthrow fair is just too good, as well as his running upair to dsmash/fsmash. Mario's higher damage upair frequently leads to people just DIing away and getting hit out of range (and teching), or floaties DIing up and away and getting out.

My conclusion: Putting a bit of time into mario (when you already main doc) is not super detrimental. Mario's really fun and can net you some success is niche situations. But overall, focussing on perfecting your doc will lead to more consistent success.

Also, mario can be played a bit more like falcon than doc. Doc slows the game's pace down a bit more than mario (and a lot more than falcon) in most situations. If your playstyle lends itself better to mario, that could be a thing. Although, it is quite a commitment with not as much reward.

 

[Miasmata]

Yeah I think Doc definitely has it over Mario in the spacies matchups. It's Sheik, Marth, and Falcon that I'm more curious about, especially since those are the ones that seem especially difficult for both characters.

Mario can definitely swag harder than Doc can tho.

 

[TheBoat]

Doc is quite noticably better versus Marth than mario.

• Doc's upair combo's and followups are way better. You can even get upair to fair sometimes.
• Doc's dthrow fair is insane in that matchup, especially if you can get the smash turn for the behind DI.
• Doc's bair is a lot better at giving marth no chance off stage due to its angle.
• Doc's pills also tend to lend him a better neutral compared to fireballs. For example, you can short hop, fade backwards and pill in more situations. Fireballs tend to go over marth's dash/run animation frequently.

Mario can sometimes get upair strings, but DI up and away with prevent any kind of good finisher. The matchup feels pretty shakey for both of them, but Doc is just a lot better against marth in my opinion so far.

Falcon is debatable for me. Mario's aerials tend to be safer on hit below like 40% and knock down a lot earlier than docs. Mario's uptilt and upthrow are really good against falcon. I find that with Doc, his upthrow sends just a bit too high, allowing falcon to jump out after an upair, uptilt or upsmash a bit more often.

I suppose the best things I like about mario in that matchup are the quick strong nair, an upair and bair that knock down better, and an uptilt that knocks straight up for all its hitboxes.

Doc's go upthrow fair after maybe 105-110 or so (my bad if I remember incorrectly) and more consistent upairs to dsmash/fsmash. He's got the bair too. Lately I'm a bit bias towards Doc, but him and mario are close enough in that matchup, I feel, that it comes down to preference.

 

[iAmMatt]

For all intensive purposes, doc and mario are the same character when it comes to matchup spread. I recommend picking up one or the other and picking a high tier for really difficult matchups.

 

[cdMyth]

I would advise you to not dual main for the purpose being that you should learn how to play one character in all matchups, because what if someone counterpicks you? Some people believe Mario is better than Doc because of his initial strong nair, recovery, and disjointed fsmash (Shroomed and Mango), but those players don't play Mario or Doc in tourney. Have you tried playing Mario against floaties? Even Schlimm made the full switch to Doc because he thought it was just too frustrating to fight floaties with Mario.

Doc has guaranteed kill setups on fastfallers and his fair allows him to be much more formidable against floaties. If you like Mario better and you're ok with fishing for fsmash or high percent nair as your main kill setups, you can definitely still be a viable character. I personally think being solo Doc is the best bet, but I would overall advise you to choose one and stick with one as opposed to dual maining, and you can see how your playstyle meshes with the character as you put more time into them.