Doc's good/bad matchups?

[Drexel]

Hello!

Right now, I am developing a complete Dr. Mario guide which hopefully will be posted in the near future, and am studying his matchups against other characters in the game. So far, I think Dr. Mario is really good against heavier and/or slower characters like Bowser, DK, King Dedede, and R.O.B and even those who are really projectile oriented like Samus, Pac-Man, Duck Hunt Duo and Mega Man. However, I believe Dr. Mario struggles against faster characters, characters who can edgeguard very well like Mario and even Lucario who excels at the higher percentages that Doc needs to get to to knock people out. Who do you observe as a good or bad matchup for Dr. Mario?

 

[Exegguter]

Short answer:

Little mac, Lucina/Marth -> Bad imo

DHD, DDD, Links -> Good

 

[neohopeSTF]

I feel Falcon hurts Doc pretty badly

 

[Doctor_Mario]

You're right, Doctor Mario will be destroyed during matches with Little Mac or any characters that is very speedy and can inflict a lot of damage very quickly. Unless you're really good at shielding.

 

[sawp]

I think it depends on your personal style. For me, I pill-spam a lot and it's really not effective against shorter characters like jiggs or pikachu >:[

 

[Will_]

Rosalina is a pretty awful matchup. Everything she has outranges you and luma tanks pills.

 

[Astronut]

Rosalina can be pretty rough, since Luma can disrupt a lot of doc's strings. I find that when Luma is there you have to play a lot of hit and run, i.e. get some bairs in, maybe quick dthrow uairs. Once Luma is gone (in the doc mu she'll die relatively fast, because of his high damage output), you have to take complete advantage of Rosalina (now you can get more safe strings in).

Rosalina also falls under some weird weight category. If you hold down A, jab 3 might not connect, which is pretty annoying.

Even though Luma tanks pills, you gotta remember that Luma has set HP, so each of those pills brings her slightly closer to death.

I find that bthrow is good in the mu, since Rosalina's body knocks Luma away and separates them by quite a bit.

Also, abuse her recovery. Whenever she's recovering from below the stage, you can do run off bair or nado for example.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Rosalina's a mixed bag. You can't really camp her cause LOL LUMA but if you watch how M@v fought Dabuz (online, partially valid) she's afraid of your multihit moves that send characters away, ESPECIALLY Doc Tornado, which covers all around you with really good priority.

Doc kind of has to hit and run but I think his main goal is to disrupt Luma as much as possible while he's in and then string together a few hits into either an offstage Bair or a solid FSmash read. Rosalina is super duper light so killing her (especially without vectoring) can be easy if you set it up.

Her range is a pain but I think if you can effectively scare her and capitalize off stuff you can win. Pretty winnable matchup but definitely in her favor. Abuse Doc's luma swatting stuff and make the most out of what you can get.

 

[Astronut]

True, as @ TTTTTsd said, Tornado is extremely useful in that mu. Tornado is just amazing in general.

 

[KenMeister]

Lil Mac just sucks, I freaking hate that matchup because literally any character who has to get in his face to get anything started is going to get destroyed, it also doesn't help that Doc can't juggle him well because Doc in the air is too slow and Counter's active frames last waaaay too long.
As for people I know for sure he does well against, Villager doesn't seem to be much of problem. While he's difficult to edgeguard, getting in his face and staying there really isn't much of problem, that and shield-dashing your way through his projectiles doesn't seem like much of a problem. Basically, Doc does well against characters who don't have good gtfo moves (aka. slow/ weak tilts or jab or terrible OoS game)

 

[TTTTTsd]

Little Mac can be juggled by Doc really easy actually IMO. It just takes a good D-Throw into Uair and then it's reset. If he counters just wait and do it again, and again, and again. Edgeguarding Little Mac is also a joke as his recovery got arguably much worse, like WHY lol.

I don't think it's in Doc's favor for a number of reasons (he's impossible to camp the little ****) but I think it's not too heavily against him.

IMO Doc's worst is probably Marth, much like Mario.

 

[M@v]

....Am I the only one who thinks mac is easy? When you grab him, either toss him offstage where his only safe recovery is vertical, or if not near the ledge, downthrows to juggles, and bait out his counter, then regrab and repeat.


Also, Docs bad matchups are vs people who have both better ground and aerial mobility, such as wario. Doesn't do you much good when you can't catch anyone, and they can avoid your pills forever.

 

[Kisatamura]

Mac is an easy matchup. If Doc's patient, then one mistake from Mac can lead to death, whereas if Doc screws up then at least you're not going to get Ko'd by it. Besides, bairs from Doc send Mac at an unfavorable angle.

Marth is still his worst matchup even with Marth's range nerf, though less so than in Melee. Tippers can kill in this game pretty early.

 

[KenMeister]

Yeah, Marth definitely feels like 6:4 or 65:35 in Marth's favor. Even Lucina herself can be tricky. Doc's just not fast not enough to get in safely, let alone punish well enough in terms of tacking on damage before resetting to neutral. That being said though, he can still be baited, even when he's full or short-hopping fairs. Doc's got the tools to keep him in the air for a bit if you can get him into that situation.

 

[Sir Bubbles]

Little Mac can be juggled by Doc really easy actually IMO. It just takes a good D-Throw into Uair and then it's reset. If he counters just wait and do it again, and again, and again. Edgeguarding Little Mac is also a joke as his recovery got arguably much worse, like WHY lol.

I don't think it's in Doc's favor for a number of reasons (he's impossible to camp the little ****) but I think it's not too heavily against him.

IMO Doc's worst is probably Marth, much like Mario.

I dunno, I feel that Rosalina is Doc's worst MU. And yeah, I never have trouble with Lil Macs when using Doc.

 

[warionumbah2]

Marth is still his worst matchup even with Marth's range nerf,

His range got buffed from Brawl. 2nd best range out of the 3 Marths.

 

[Astronut]

Any tips in the Marth mu? I feel as though this is one of Doc's worst ones.....

 

[Drexel]

Rosalina's a mixed bag. You can't really camp her cause LOL LUMA but if you watch how M@v fought Dabuz (online, partially valid) she's afraid of your multihit moves that send characters away, ESPECIALLY Doc Tornado, which covers all around you with really good priority.

Doc kind of has to hit and run but I think his main goal is to disrupt Luma as much as possible while he's in and then string together a few hits into either an offstage Bair or a solid FSmash read. Rosalina is super duper light so killing her (especially without vectoring) can be easy if you set it up.

Her range is a pain but I think if you can effectively scare her and capitalize off stuff you can win. Pretty winnable matchup but definitely in her favor. Abuse Doc's luma swatting stuff and make the most out of what you can get.

Well, I see Rosalina as a character you need to face really patiently in order to win. The way I deal with Rosalina and Luma is divide and conquer, much like you would with Ice Climbers in previous titles. You need to get rid of Luma first and then start dishing out the big damage with your combo strings/KO on Rosalina while Luma is gone. It is really only one use to pill spam because the only thing it does is give damage to Luma when it isn't near Rosalina since she can suck your pills into oblivion. However, you are right, she is one of the lightest characters in the game so Dr. Mario at least has that going for him. I still feel Dr. Mario has a 40:60 disadvantage to Rosalina though.

Any tips in the Marth mu? I feel as though this is one of Doc's worst ones.....

Strangely, I don't mind facing a Marth or a Lucina for that rather, (partially because I have experience with my brother who plays as both, and I play as Marth). Pill spamming with proper spacing during it does pretty well for approaching against them since they do love to shorthop FAir some. Plus, Dr. Mario can punish a Marth side smash tipper via USpecial OOS after a Powershield. Also, you can take advantage of those who like to put up counters by going in for a grab, in fact that is what you want. If you can predict when they try to counter you, you can take advantage by starting your combos with grab into DThrow, UThrow or FThrow. However good Marth players can edgeguard very well against Dr. Mario. They can use the counter to swipe away your tornado or USpecial when you are trying to recover, and don't mention the Ken combo. If I could give any tips against a Marth player, it's to first focus on your positioning, and try to stay away from the edge if you find yourself in trouble because that is what Marth wants. Instead, try to read his attacks/counters and punish him for it with powershields/grabs. Also, if you can get in close to him, you can take less damage and fly shorter distances. I still think this matchup is an uphill batlle though, probably 60:40 as well for Marth.

 

[Dobbston]

Tornado and Dair can pretty much instantly kill off the luma.

 

[Kisatamura]

gonna make a thread out of matchups

 

[Gunla]

gonna make a thread out of matchups

Just tag me in the OP so I can sticky it later.

The new MU thread will focus on global MUs.