Don't use the Judgment Hammer

[Galt]

The title basically says what I want to cover here, but this is something which I think needs to be more widely considered by the G&W community. Once you've thought about it, I think you'll agree with me.

The thesis is this: unless you've got a significant lead, or are significantly behind, or are fighting a floaty character and can combo it out of a grab at low percents, don't use the Judgment Hammer. At all.

The essential reason for this is that it is more likely to hurt you in some way than to help. It's slow and has low range, so chances are certainly best that it won't hit anyone. But even without connecting, the 1 does 12% damage to you, which is more than the Judgment can do in most hits. Consider also that a hit usually doesn't do much good, since most of the hammers are worthless. Add to that the fact that there is nearly always a better attack choice when you can actually connect with the hammer: the f-air is stronger, safer, has better knockback, and can lead to combos. Out of throws on floaty characters, you've got the n-air. And if you're on the ground, the f-smash has better range and power.

So stop wasting your opportunities and inviting punishment by using the Judgment Hammer. Pretty much any other attack you have is a better option. The chance for a cheap kill with a 9 is almost nonexistant, especially on someone who has fought G&W before.

 

[Binx]

Not true G&W is so bad you need to get 11 9's in one game to win anyways.

JK, but yeah really good advice, unless you know you can win anyways you probably shouldn't use this.

 

[Mky762]

yeah i agree also, good advice

 

[Egret]

Time the 9 obv
>>

 

[j00t]

I get about 16 nine's in one match, so i'll just be ignorant to this.

 

[mathos]

I tell people this all the time.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I don't use the hammer at all really >.>

Unless I'm fooling around or are ahead by 2 or 3 stock

 

[Crooked Crow]

the only reason why I would be leading the game with a 2 or 3 stock lead is BECAUSE of the hammer

Hammer ftw.

Good advice, though. lol

 

[Chexr]

The hammer is a pretty bad move.

 

[Xerck Xon Skyes]

The hammer is pretty bad, I'll admit that, but I found that, personally, the hammer works well in the air. I mean, most of G&W's other moves are better, but the hammer can be used well in the air if it connects.

 

[BlargCow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vntT-rP1vK0

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W is bad. The 6 and 9 are amazing. The 6 and 9 are so good it's worth using the Judgement Hammer to get them every so often given that G&W overall is pretty terrible. Most of the other options are reasonably workable.

Don't like use the Judgement as an approach, but if you KNOW you can combo into it, then do it. A free 6 or 9 can quickly change the tide of a match, and the thing about the Judgement Hammer is the hitbox is out for a good duration like the F-air, but unlike that move doesn't have a sweetspot, so you have a little more leeway in aiming that attack at your enemy. The only option that really leaves you vulnerable is the 1, and it's not like it happens all the time.

IMO, the Judgement Hammer is just situational. It's not something that you should never use.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Judgement is not THAT bad. It has lag like almost anymore of his smashes. And the hitbox is pretty meaty.

 

[Galt]

G&W is bad. The 6 and 9 are amazing. The 6 and 9 are so good it's worth using the Judgement Hammer to get them every so often given that G&W overall is pretty terrible. Most of the other options are reasonably workable.

Don't like use the Judgement as an approach, but if you KNOW you can combo into it, then do it. A free 6 or 9 can quickly change the tide of a match, and the thing about the Judgement Hammer is the hitbox is out for a good duration like the F-air, but unlike that move doesn't have a sweetspot, so you have a little more leeway in aiming that attack at your enemy. The only option that really leaves you vulnerable is the 1, and it's not like it happens all the time.

IMO, the Judgement Hammer is just situational. It's not something that you should never use.

I don't think the 6 is going to be able to change the tide of a match, at least not any more than an f-air or f-smash or n-air. The 6 isn't bad, certainly, it's just not the best option. So that leaves only the 9 as really useful, which is a single option, and then you have the 1, and those two essentially negate each other. The result is that it's still safer in any situation to use another move, which will almost certainly deal more damage, have longer range, have better knockback, etc. There's a chance it will be useful, but not good enough. A hitbox staying out for a long time generally only matters if you're fighting a bad player who can't DI.

Hoping for the 9 is somewhat like playing the lottery. You'll never win. You'll point to others and say that *they* have one, but that's irrelevant; *you* won't ever win.

 

[The Phenom]

Well to me it seems useful not hurtful, 12% not to much right GAWers. I like to use it but with instincts of when to use it.

The judgement hammer is situational and doesn't have to be never of use-heck! its like saying to Nintendo, especially to his creator, TAKE IT OUT! who sadly is dead.

Galt, I however agree on not using it when my opponents are at low%, but this just comes to show the best use of it only at high%-only when comboing ... any agree to this?

Λ Simply just the art of combo that it could be implemented for a death combo Λ the judgement hammer

opinion made by observation: jumping+ side b is useful when you do a bypass on a opponent who is starting to stand up-recoil on platform.

 

[alphameric]

You have a 1 in 7 chance of hurting yourself.
Not using the hammer is the stupidest advice you can give.
Better advice is do not rely on the hammer to win the game for you

 

[Galt]

You have a 1 in 7 chance of hurting yourself.
Not using the hammer is the stupidest advice you can give.
Better advice is do not rely on the hammer to win the game for you

You have a 1 in 7 chance of hurting yourself, but *also* only a 1 in 7 chance of getting a worthwhile hit. Factor in that you'll most likely miss with it, except in certain situations, and you arrive at the conclusion that you shouldn't use it.

I do think G&W would be better without the hammer. I also think he'd be better with Oil Panic. His up-smash and d-smash are situational at best, and generally not useful. He should be able to L-cancel all his moves. I have no problem saying that Sakurai designed this character poorly in competitive terms, but I also think he wasn't really built seriously, and besides, I don't think Sakurai's a very good designer. Certainly he's not a genius.

There is, however, one situation where the hammer might possibly be more useful due to its staying out a long time: when the opponent is getting off the edge, I generally use an f-tilt or catch him with an f-smash, but it's possible that the f-tilt's purpose could be replaced by the hammer. But probably the chair will still have better knockback and damage.

I realize this is still controversial, probably because there are no good G&W players who also have vids. Dire's stuff is really old, and I don't think he was particularly great to begin with, if I were to judge by those vids. None of the other vids in the designated thread impress me at all. So you don't have any really successful players whose opinions you could trust. But I'm not really dealing with opinions here--I'm giving you reasonable arguments. And probability says that you're better off not using the hammer in pretty much any situation.

 

[Mky762]

You have a 1 in 7 chance of hurting yourself.
Not using the hammer is the stupidest advice you can give.
Better advice is do not rely on the hammer to win the game for you

i actually agree more with him

 

[Binx]

post

Yeah I guess it could be used as an edgeguard kind of like a marth jab, a proper sweetspot would still probably make it though right? or does the hammer go under the stage a little, for that matter does the chair go under the stage a little? if hammer does go under the stage then it could be used effectively for that, if not then its still useless, either way in the aerial combo situation even at mid percents I would rather fair or nair and have a guaranteed chance at an edgeguard than a 1/9 chance of killing them with a 1/9 chance of hurting myself and then even if I DO hit a 9 I have two 1/7 chances to hurt myself before I can use the hammer again.

11% chance people, but 3 11% chances of hurting yourself, do the math, maybe it will pay off for you once in a while but on average if you use multiple hammers in a match you are going to do most often do a low damage attack kind of often hurt yourself for 13-26% rarely kill your enemy a little early.

 

[alphameric]

There is a reason the B moves are called Special moves.
They aren't something to be relied on.

Landing a 9 is essentially a free stock. Unless you are a ****ing moron and use the hammer on someone with 0 percent, the person will MORE THAN LIKELY be off the stage and about to be edge guarded.

You sound like someone who likes to whip it out for whatever reason. That's why you fail.
The hammer is meant to be used as a flashy finisher or something to prolong an already successful combo.

If you get a 1, that's a shame, but no reason to stop using the move.

 

[j00t]

There is a reason the B moves are called Special moves.
They aren't something to be relied on.

Tell that to a Fox player. :/

 

[DH_Ninja]

Ive been in plenty of situations where that judgement has helped me make a come back and or win a match. Use it, don't rely on it.

 

[ju4ndieg0]

im a G&W player so :

Learn the Rules for the Judgement first

a) 1st judgement cant be a 1 or 2
b) 2nd Judgement cant be a 2
c) Any number the hammer displays cant be obtained again after 2 more judgements
d) When you die reset the rules

So, in order to use the hammer, make, at least, 30% to your oponent , then you have a 1/7 chance of getting #9 and 0% chance of getting a 1 , so try chaingrabbing the oponent and then finish him with a judgement, if you get lucky ull get a #9 and you have nothing to lose, what im triying to say is :

---1st Hammer = Pwnage--- but i suggest to use the Hammer just if you r 100% sure that you r going to hit or in case of emergency of course

*if you waste your first hammer and theres no #9 just keep fighting until you die, then try again.
*Of course if you are playing friendlies or something have some fun triying to finish the match with a 9 =)

 

[reqy]

Hoping for the 9 is somewhat like playing the lottery. You'll never win. You'll point to others and say that *they* have one, but that's irrelevant; *you* won't ever win.

Not true Steven, you 9'd my Sheik and wonned the game! I was like "HUUUAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! " while the Dream Land Tree was saying 'OOOooooooooooooowned!' as it blew wind in my face hurting my chances even more to recover as the G&W bells rang celebrating Sheik's demise. run-on's ftw!

 

[Needle of Juntah]

lol well you guys are learning a lil bit anyways

 

[Speedsk8er]

Yeah I guess it could be used as an edgeguard kind of like a marth jab, a proper sweetspot would still probably make it though right? or does the hammer go under the stage a little, for that matter does the chair go under the stage a little? if hammer does go under the stage then it could be used effectively for that, if not then its still useless, either way in the aerial combo situation even at mid percents I would rather fair or nair and have a guaranteed chance at an edgeguard than a 1/9 chance of killing them with a 1/9 chance of hurting myself and then even if I DO hit a 9 I have two 1/7 chances to hurt myself before I can use the hammer again.

11% chance people, but 3 11% chances of hurting yourself, do the math, maybe it will pay off for you once in a while but on average if you use multiple hammers in a match you are going to do most often do a low damage attack kind of often hurt yourself for 13-26% rarely kill your enemy a little early.

Oh lawd IZ BINX A GAW MAIN TOO? Please tell me that you play young Link also.

Gaw is too cute.

 

[forkgirl]

no one should listen to galt. He's terrible at this game, and his G&W is considered a joke in texas. he's known around here for being terrible. it's sad, but true.

poor, poor Galt.

 

[Galt]

no one should listen to galt. He's terrible at this game, and his G&W is considered a joke in texas. he's known around here for being terrible. it's sad, but true.

poor, poor Galt.

I didn't want to respond at first, but this is the G&W board and people here are... they get a little... ... sometimes they get confused, is all, so I have to watch out for them. Like a very manly, handsome, excellent mother.

Forky speaks nonsense. She got roughed up by Galt's G&W, so hard that it knocked all her hair off and she had to get a haircut. She's so bad, she practically chaingrabs herself.

But G&W is a joke. :'(

 

[forkgirl]

only your G&W Galt, only yours.

 

[ZorakBane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-oA1ccSQ5o
dont use the nine

 

[Dub. G]

I only use the "judgment hammer" as mindgames, if use the right way. I never use for anything other than that. but with the whole "the first hammer cant be a 1 or 2" thing, why not throw one out to see if that 9 does come out...if your daring....
but yeah, mindgames, thats what its all about.

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

nice advice for a new Gaw

 

[ss118]

I use it when I either have no chance of losing or no chance of winning.

 

[AIDS]

lol it is funny when you combo into it, like vs fox at mid % Dtilt and jump into him use it, and if you get a 9, it is the sexiest thing ever...as far as G&W goes.

 

[FuPoo]

i love using it. it gets big laughs when a 9 comes by and connects.

 

[Speedsk8er]

LOL I was playing a Doc last night and knocked me off the stage. Well, I was landing on the stage and I decided to throw out a judgement just as he decided to fsmash me. His Fsmash clanked with my 9 and my 9 went through, killing him. If he had hit me with the Fsmash, I would have died. XD

Judgement FTW

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-oA1ccSQ5o
dont use the nine

I was going to post that if it wasn't here...seeing how it's already here...Bane wins this thread

 

[omegablackmage]

read some of the thread, as a general rule i would agree, however it is useful out of throw combos. against spacies, falcon, sheik, marios, and a few other characters there are better combos that i have, but against mids to mid-floaty (marth etc) nines are the way to go out of down throws

 

[Needle of Juntah]

melle sux .

 

[Needle of Juntah]

lol guys ill guess ill teach u


use hammer once a match. thats all