Dr. Mario Competitive Thoughts

[meleebrawler]

Comparing Dr. Mario to Mario feels like comparing Ryu and Ken.

The Doc is a tad slower but stronger than Mario, Ryu has short damaging combos compared to Ken's longer strings
of weaker hits.

Ryu generally has better projectiles than Ken, as Dr. Mario's pills were generally considered better than fireballs.

Doc' shoryuken has fewer but stronger hits, like Ryu's compared to Ken.

It's funny how close these two are to shotoclones, and they even have a "joke" counterpart with Luigi as opposed to Dan.

 

[The21stSmasher]

Hm, I saw what you did there!

 

[Spinosaurus]

I always thought it was more like Doc is the Akuma to Mario's Ryu

Mario is generally the safer, more balanced character, whereas Doc is very risky (see: more move with lag and worse recovery, at least in Melee) but is significantly more powerful (Especially his KO power) and better.

 

[meleebrawler]

I always thought it was more like Doc is the Akuma to Mario's Ryu

Mario is generally the safer, more balanced character, whereas Doc is very risky (see: more move with lag and worse recovery, at least in Melee) but is significantly more powerful (Especially his KO power) and better.

But Akuma is way faster and more powerful than both shotos, he just has lower health.

Stamina in other fighters is best compared to weight in Smash, and the Doc isn't lighter than Mario.

 

[Spinosaurus]

But Akuma is way faster and more powerful than both shotos, he just has lower health.

Stamina in other fighters is best compared to weight in Smash, and the Doc isn't lighter than Mario.

I always compared health to recovery options and such, which Doc has some of the worst.

He's actually heavier in the PAL version of Melee than Mario though lol

 

[meleebrawler]

I always compared health to recovery options and such, which Doc has some of the worst.

He's actually heavier in the PAL version of Melee than Mario though lol

His recovery is only marginally worse than Mario's since he got only one boost from his Super Sheet.
Jigglypuff is one of the lightest in the game but some of the best jumping, does that mean
she has loads of health?

 

[Xinc]

But Akuma is way faster and more powerful than both shotos, he just has lower health.

Stamina in other fighters is best compared to weight in Smash, and the Doc isn't lighter than Mario.

So does that make Mario Ken, Doc Ryu, and Luigi Akuma?

 

[Kero the Invincible]

Though, now that Mario's cape has been nerfed, and Doc has the tornado while Mario doesn't, wouldn't Doc have the better recovery? Outside of customs, of course.

 

[Booster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc-EP-0xEDQ

It's a pretty good and hilarious song, who else agrees?

 

[StarLight42]

As much it would be amazing, there is no way Nintendo's doing that.

 

[meleebrawler]

So does that make Mario Ken, Doc Ryu, and Luigi Akuma?

Maybe I didn't word it well, but I compared Luigi to Dan Hibiki, has humourous attacks
with sometimes surprising qualities (Fire punch and vertical recovery in Brawl).
Many cutscenes in SSE treat him somewhat like a joke, similar to Dan.

The main difference is that Luigi is not known as a joke character.

 

[Booster]

As much it would be amazing, there is no way Nintendo's doing that.

It's not even that inappropriate of a song, most of it comes from the animation which wouldn't be shown

 

[PlasmWraith]

They'd probably be sued for mentioning certain TV shows, and there'd be problems with them mentioning STDs. That said, I'd love this so much, so I wish Nintendo did this.

 

[Megamaw]

Really, if any fan mix were to get in, I'd hold out for this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1MiOtBupJc

 

[Ragna22]

You know they wouldn't do this for the contents in the song alone lol unless they made Brentalfloss censor it but that would just make people angry.

 

[Booster]

You know they wouldn't do this for the contents in the song alone lol unless they made Brentalfloss censor it but that would just make people angry.

I said the song should be in Smash, not that Nintendo would actually do it, at the very least allow us custom music as a Wii U exclusive feature through Flash Drive or SD Card. Set it up on a Mario stage, play/fight Dr. Mario and you're set.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Yes one of the few reason's I'm OK with DR. Mario. I am Dr. Mario, but I'm not saving lives...( looks at Ice Climbers). I saw in a fan video that Dr. Mario's final smash could have been where he diagnosis a random player which causes their percent to keep going out without stopping. That would be incredibly OP, but it would be funny to have Dr. Mario say Does it.... Instead of that final smash we got Brightly colored pills they'll cure all your ills just as long as you got fever or the chills.

 

[Booster]

Yes one of the few reason's I'm OK with DR. Mario. I am Dr. Mario, but I'm not saving lives...( looks at Ice Climbers). I saw in a fan video that Dr. Mario's final smash could have been where he diagnosis a random player which causes their percent to keep going out without stopping. That would be incredibly OP, but it would be funny to have Dr. Mario say Does it.... Instead of that final smash we got Brightly colored pills they'll cure all your ills just as long as you got fever or the chills.

I wonder what the yellow virus is suppose to represent...Gonorrhea (DON'T ASK)?

 

[Megamaw]

I wonder what the yellow virus is suppose to represent...Gonorrhea (DON'T ASK)?

If I recall correctly, the yellow one's name is 'Weird'. Which tells us nothing.

 

[Booster]

If I recall correctly, the yellow one's name is 'Weird'. Which tells us nothing.

I'm calling it Gonorrhea (DON'T ASK)

Note: I don't encourage google it up, you're better off not knowing or just watching a Toy Story YTP

 

[Ragna22]

I said the song should be in Smash, not that Nintendo would actually do it, at the very least allow us custom music as a Wii U exclusive feature through Flash Drive or SD Card. Set it up on a Mario stage, play/fight Dr. Mario and you're set.

Custom soundtracks would be godlike I will admit, Namco helped make the game and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 had custom soundtracks so I could see that carrying over to Smash if Nintendo let them, they wouldn't even have to worry about inappropriate songs for online play either because they could just have your songs play only on your game like in TTT2.

 

[toadster101]

 

[AEMehr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc-EP-0xEDQ

It's a pretty good and hilarious song, who else agrees?

why

Yes, though I prefer the WiiWare's mix personally.

Would be a nice fit on the Wii Fit stage if you ask me.

 

[Escorcho]

I played Doc a considerable amount on For Glory yesterday and have to say I was relatively pleased. He has good combo ability in up tilt and up air. Down airs can combo into each other. Rising Doc tornadoes can be used as a combo finisher. I haven't tried up b oos, but it seems viable. It sure got me some KOs on the ledge. Back air is powerful and is good for wall of pain, gimps, etc. You can't forget the old Forward air. Amazing. Pills are good for zoning. Them bouncing high can work in your favor, as your opponent will have to shield, run, or stand still so as to not get hit. I see a lot of potential for Doc. It would definitely be a treat to see the old doctor be prominent in tournament. He gives himself pats on the back. Why don't you?

 

[_Magus_]

Yeah, his projectile is way better than mario's, as well as his combo potential. I see him being tiered decently far above mario, wherever he is.

 

[Xinc]

Dr. Mario definitely has a chance to be higher than Mario, and even higher than the majority of the cast. His pills do relatively good knockback for a projectile and he can full hop 0 lag pill and double jump and send another without suffering from lag. That's good for offensive and defensive pressure. His combo potential is different than Mario's, but is untapped. Not to mention about that weird opposite sex kick where the ending deals more damage. He's got more killers than his plumber counterpart as well.

Oh, and he can walljump too, so that could potentially help him in recovery from below.

 

[Escorcho]

It's important to note that when approaching with Dair, be cautious of shields. You will get grabbed if you mess up. I could definitely see Doc doing well. On the topic of Down air, it's easier to combo with than Mario's as it sends opponents horizontally as opposed to vertically. It is also easier to get the final, powerful hit on It that sends opponents away. It's just plain easier to combo with.

 

[StarLight42]

Glad to hear this. Got tired of hearing "Mario will be better than the Doc" nonsense, now that we have the game, I think Doc is still superior to Mario in a lot of ways.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I've found something new and will probably double post in the Doc Gameplay General about this, BUT Doc's Up+B can be reversed on the first hit! As in, you sweetspot it, and then hold the opposite direction, and Doc will go that way instead! This lets up+B be a reliable offstage finisher at the end of a combo and since it comes out on frame one it's also a good counter!

 

[Triangleman]

From my experience of 100+ for glory matches using Dr. Mario he is unable to kill reliably (or at least I am with him) until higher pecentages usually 120%+

After realizing this (at least for myself) and compared to some characters that I can and have seen other players kill at lower pecents it made me very hesitant to keep using him and yet somehow I still find myself having overall better average win ratio's with him than other champs.

So I asked myself, why am I winning more with him if I have to kill a little later? I didn't feel like his priority in hits was the best nor did I find his projectile game (while still decent) to be the best. In fact I find his recovery severely lacking so what could possibly be putting him ahead? Here are a couple things I have come to the the conclusion of.

1. Dr. Mario is very hard to hit. His short stature makes his hitbox tiny in comparison to some of the best fighters. This causes the approach of these champs very limited which also makes your countering options that much stronger. I think this is probably his strongest asset of all, of course there are other champs his size so he has to have something to differentiate him from them but you cannot underestimate the power being tiny can give you.

2. Following up being tiny unlike other tiny characters Dr. Mario feels a lot heavier than other tiny characters. He feels as heavy as heavy weights to me but not so heavy as in he falls really fast he actually feels like he has this horizontal heaviness where he can survive being launched horizontally much better than other champs. I don't know if that's true or not but I find myself living to much higher percents with him making the fact that I usually have to kill others at a little higher percents null and the same goes for his recovery. His sub par recovery is ok because I often will live to 150%+. Part of this may not be in how heavy he is but more in how he get's launched. He is much hard to get launched by slower attacks due to being small so people usually have to launch you with weaker attacks.

3. The tornado..... I know this is a point of contention for some but I just find his tornado to be a top tier damage builder. The priority on the move is sickening. In one matchup in particular the move is literally a make or break for him. If you play a good jiggler puff and I mean a really top tier jiggly puff player who can approach and kick you like no other make use of your tornado. It out prioritizes his kick and since it can rise it perfectly counters jiggly. Other than that as long as your not spamming it the move has amazing priority and even with a little ending lag as long as you use it correctly the knockback always 100% leaves you safe and can be used to kill at higher percents.

4. His up special.... This to me is useless for 95% of the match as an attacking move and yet I am listing it as a strength. The reason is because of the fact that I don't use it 95% of the match that the opponent rarely is prepared for it. When you spend almost the entire match approaching and countering with a different mechanic they rarely are prepared for the up special as a kill move since it's not stale. While the move is very punishable it does have at least 2 good things going for it. It comes out extremely quick and it has kill potential at higher percents that if they aren't prepared for will get them.


Anyway I'm still a little confused why he continues to be the man I go to when I get really serious but his tiny frame with whatever seems to make him heavy always surving it high percentages makes him a solid choice.

 

[_Magus_]

This is probably the wrong place for this, but....

Here's some data on the Doc's kill moves I found in training. Keep in mind it's still rough.

-Fsmash: from the edge 90%, from center stage 120%

**The doc's most effective kill move. Most range, Most knockback. Pivoting can make this deadly.**

-Dsmash (Note: dsmash is weird bc the hit behind does more knockback than the hit in front)

From the front: edge: 130ish% center stage: 160%

From the back: edge: 100% center stage: 135ish%

**D smash is really weird. I've managed to punish rolls with it pretty well, but that's about all i can think of. F smash kills earlier and has more range.**

-Usmash: (Note: usmash has way more range from behind than front. Never try to hit with it from the front.)
from the edge: 115ish%, from center stage: 160%

**I've found that this is one of the doc's least effective kill moves, since it has less reach and takes more % before it works. I've relegated it exclusively to punishing missed up b's. Speaking of which...**

-Up B: from the edge: 125%, from center stage, 160%

**Up B comepletely outclasses u smash imo cuz it can be used oos. It also combos nicely at higher percents with downthrow :D**

-B Throw: from the edge: 150%, from center stage: don't even try, buddy

**B throw and Bair make the Doc quite dangerous near the edge, especially at higher percents, when a punish can result in a kill.
This is helpful for dealing with pesky little macs bc mac sucks near the edge **

-Bair: kills offstage at 150ish%

**You can kill with bair. If your b throw didn't do 'em in, jump off and give them a taste of some BACK AIR TO THE FACE!!!!
By far the Doc's most satisfying kill move.**

Criticism is invited, as i'm new to the whole stats and data scene.

 

[justincase145]

**You can kill with bair. If your b throw didn't do 'em in, jump off and give them a taste of some BACK AIR TO THE FACE!!!!
By far the Doc's most satisfying kill move.**

Couldn't agree more haha.

The bair is just so amazing and satisfying. Although the f-air finish is a close second. (If you can actually land it). I'm really curious on kill percentages and hitbox on his U-air, it feels really strong but i'm not sure. BTW these stats/percentages were very useful. Thanks/good job!

 

[_Magus_]

Up b is a great option oos cuz of damage and knockback. Plus it's a punish that improves the higher your opponent's % until around 150 if you do d throw > up b. Their increased % makes them fly farther, so the higher percent they are, the safer you'll be. Plus, it's a combo that'll net you a guaranteed 19% every time they throw something laggy at your shield.

Also, f smash kills at 90% from the edge. Just throwing that out there.

 

[Kisatamura]

While I'm not a professional Doc player, I've played and analyzed what he could do in Melee so many times, so I'll try not to post any info about Doc that's already been stated :V

It's true that his pills don't deal as much damage anymore, but everybody should know by now that Megavitamins fall at a unique angle. When you're at a high enough height (Let's say somebody knocks you away to the top of the screen), Dr Mario's pills will gain some height when they bounce on the floor, if you throw them out. Compare this to Mario's fireballs, which will fall really quickly if thrown at a high enough height, but don't gain any height when they bounce. This may be more matchup dependent: It's easier to hit somebody trying to edgeguard with Mario's fireballs if you're close enough, but Doc's pills are more for stage control.

Much like in Melee, Dr Mario is more on kill-moves while Mario has an easier time with comboing. That isn't to say that Dr Mario can combo: his Dair has really good knockback for a drill move, and I've used it a couple times for edgeguarding since it knocks your opponent upwards at a diagonal angle compared to Mario's Dair knocking your opponent up. Doc's Dair is a pretty useful edgeguard and most people I've played in For Glory don't expect it. Also nobody expects Tornado, and it's good for a hard read on rolls or finishing air combos. Just make sure these hit or else you'll get punished.

Doc's dunk is somewhat nerfed here as a killer: it'll kill around 100-ish or 110 at the middle of the stage, but the sweetspot is shorter and the soursport is weaker. Honestly it's kind of like a mini-knee now, but it'll still kill. Bair doesn't semi-spike, but it's knockback is stronger than Mario's Bair.

Recovery-wise, both Marios suck at recovery. Doc sucks more though, but most of the time in Melee you're supposed to use the Tornado to stall while you're above the opponent as opposed to using it below the stage unless you've got mad button mashing skills. Either way, Tornado is for stalling for some horizontal distance. The only thing I'll state about Doc's cape is that you can use it while rushing the opponent since it doesn't stall anymore

It's too early to determine which Mario is better, if Doc's a high or mid tier or whatever. To finish, Dr Mario has more kill moves (UpB, Dair, Fair, Bair, FSmash, Tornado, Dsmash at high precents) and can play a decent edgeguard game with his Bair and the cape. Also, Megavitamins. But Mario has a better combo game and mobility game, alongside his better recovery. We'll have to see what type of meta is developed in SSB4, if it focuses on gimping, combos or whatever. I hope that both Marios are around the same since I like playing as both of them. Doc should be decent at least with his pills and kill moves.

 

[Dobbston]

Usmash oos and Up B oos are pretty good. Dr. Mario's Up B is just amazing in this game.

 

[Thegopher]

Prescribe em here! So all the other fellow doctors can see some gameplay!

 

[Kisatamura]

This is a early one though, before the game hit the states.

 

[_Magus_]

So from what i've seen, DDD has been nerfed pretty hard since brawl. A lot of his moves are laggier, and his projectile sux. I find myself dominating him with Dr. Mario over and over for a few reasons:

1. The Gordos. DDD can't projectile spam against us. One of our pills sends a gordo right back into his face. Plus, we have our cape. So that's effectively two reflectors. Consider his projectile game neutralized.

2. Slow aerials and air speed. DDD is pretty slow in the air, and he lacks a fast ranged move like his bair in brawl for spacing and approaching. Almost every single one of our aerials are faster (I'm looking at you, Fair)

3. He's big. It's no secret he's a large character. But with an almost nonexistent camping game against us, he has no way to cover for that. He's combo fodder. You could argue that he can camp on the ground, with f tilt, jab, and all that, but the solution to that is to camp him with pills. He's too big for them to bounce over him, so he'll take damage until he's at kill percent or he approaches. And since his dash attack is VERY slow (but does have decent range, so watch out!) and he doesn't have an aerial to approach with, he'll have a heck of a time getting to you without being punished.

Basically, use pills, stay out of his ground range, force him to come to you, and then combo the living tar out of him.

Am I missing anything? Please discuss.

 

[zeezee]

Not really a lot of gameplay, but I thought some doc players would enjoy it anyways.
I was playing somebody on Nintendodojo's ladder and managed to pull this off.

 

[Sir Tundra]

The way this works is similar to sheiks chain grab tech but instead you use a fast fallled dair rather then a fast falled uair

for those of you who don't know about sheiks chain grab tech heres a vid of it in action:

Now heres a vid of docs chain grab tech recorded by myself:

Its unknown if this is guaranteed or not for doc as I messed this up a lot of times and I'm practicing it as of now.

Either way this might improve doc's performance in competitive play.