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A guide to Edgeguarding!
Guide Index
1. Introduction
2. Tools of Edgeguarding
-2A. Mines
-2B. C4
-2C. Grenades
-2D. Mortar
-2E.Tilts
-2F. Dash Attack
-2G. Aerials
-2H. Fsmash
-2I. Throwing
-2J. Hugging
-2K. Nikita Missile
3. Basic Defensive Set-ups-2B. C4
-2C. Grenades
-2D. Mortar
-2E.Tilts
-2F. Dash Attack
-2G. Aerials
-2H. Fsmash
-2I. Throwing
-2J. Hugging
-2K. Nikita Missile
4. In-Depth Strategies Against the Cast
-Bowser
-Captain Falcon
-Diddy Kong
-Donkey Kong
-Falco
-Fox
-Game and Watch
-Ganondorf
-Ice Climbers
-Ike
-Jigglypuff
-King Dedede
-Kirby
-Link
-Lucario
-Luigi
-Lucas
-Mario
-Marth
-Meta Knight
-Ness
-Olimar
-Peach
-Pikachu
-Pit
-Pokemon Trainer
-R.O.B
-Samus
-Shiek
-Snake
-Sonic
-Toon Link
-Wario
-Wolf
-Yoshi
-Zelda
-Zero Suit Samus
1. Introduction-Captain Falcon
-Diddy Kong
-Donkey Kong
-Falco
-Fox
-Game and Watch
-Ganondorf
-Ice Climbers
-Ike
-Jigglypuff
-King Dedede
-Kirby
-Link
-Lucario
-Luigi
-Lucas
-Mario
-Marth
-Meta Knight
-Ness
-Olimar
-Peach
-Pikachu
-Pit
-Pokemon Trainer
-R.O.B
-Samus
-Shiek
-Snake
-Sonic
-Toon Link
-Wario
-Wolf
-Yoshi
-Zelda
-Zero Suit Samus
First off, this guide is far from completion. I decided to do this about 5 minutes ago. I just wanted to get my name on this project before someone else took the idea, but considering that no one has really done this to the level that I want to go to, I doubt that would happen. Anyway . . . onto business.
For now, the goal of this guide is to simply provide basic insight onto Snake's ledgeguarding options. This mostly includes looking at which each option typically does, a few tricks to create a basic wall, what to do if they are high in the air, etc.
In a later verison, I hope to include a general guide to edgeguarding all characters. For example, it is pointless to place a mine near the edge of a stage against a character like falco. He can simply use his reflector from the ledge to detonate the mine. It is a better idea to place the mine a maximum phantasm distance from the ledge. Against a character like peach, it is actually a very good idea to place a mine near the very edge of the stage. This eliminates all ledgehop options she has and leaves her with only rolls, get-up, attack, or jump on the ledge which greatly improves your ability to edgeguard her. In short, that verison of the guide will take a lot of time to write test, and finalize. If I ever finish that verison, I might go further with something else, but how to include more than what I envision, I have no idea.
Note - The guide is going to look pretty tacky right now as I am not really interested at the moment in making the guide look professional. I will improve it after I complete the first verison of the guide which, if all goes well, should take roughly a few days. If you have any problems with the guide, such as you do not agree with something, keep it to yourself unless you actually provide prove against it. I do not want random comments filling up this thread. If you spot any mistakes or thing something should be added just PM me or make a comment in the thread.
2. Tools of Edgeguarding
2A. Mines
Mines detonate when touched. This makes them ideal for limiting any options that involve the opponent touching the ground such as ledge options. When placed the proper distance, they will either cover a roll, a get-up, or an attack option. As far as I know (and tested), mines never detonate when someone uses the jump ledge option. From the testing I have done, each character is different when it comes to either the get-up or attack option being covered. Some cover both, others just one. But the end result is that if you place the mine closer to the ledge than away, you will cover at least one of them. If you place the mine a rolls distance away from the ledge, you will cover that option near the edge.
It can be a good idea to place mines on platforms. This typically removes the option of them landing on a particaluar platform causing them to either go over it or try to go onto the stage near the ledge.
Mines are a double edge sword though. To use a mine means that you also are prevented from going into that area or use a hitbox near there (if you detonate it yourself, it kind of seems pointless to have taken the time to place it there in the first place). Options such as grenades and mortars are less useful when a mine is nearby.
Preference: I typically prefer to avoid using mines when edgeguarding unless I know it would reduce more options of my opponents than mine own. If I do happen to have the time, I place a mine on a platform that is near the ledge. This allows me access to almost all my ground options. Utilt, mortar or grenades underneath the platform however are typically limited (depends on the height). Also, it is not too bad if a person is forced into the air and away from my ledge defences. To be in the air sort of means like being juggled still. I just have to adapt to the situation and pursue.
2B. C4
C4 is a remote detonation device. The versatility of this tool is invaluable. You can place very quickly and detonate it just as quickly. The limitations of it however are in its inability to be place extremely quickly, and requires you do drop all other options upon detonation. This means you pretty much have to detonate it when you know it will hit, which requires some prediction.
C4 serves as a anti-planking device. It can be placed at the ledge of the stage and detonated when someone tries to come up to the ledge to refresh their jumps, UpB, etc. Another use in anti-planking is to jump above your opponent offstage, b-reversal it, and then detonate as you fall. This can sometimes catch people trying to recover from below, it is risky to use if they already managed to grab the ledge as they can get past you as you try to jump above them.
Another use can serve as a improvised mine that does not prohibit your options when you walk across it, or taking too much time to place. This makes it ideal for placing on platforms or just further away from the ledge as a safeguard if someone happens to get past you.
Preference - I prefer to place it at the very edge of a stage simply to prevent people from planking. Even its simple presence makes people more wary of trying to get back on stage and serves as a distraction. Most of the time I will detonate it if the opponent gets too far away from me. It is more important to have it with you in the event you need it for C4 recovery, or to set-up another edgeguard attempt quickly.
2C. Grenades
Explodes on contact with a foe's hitbox, or when the 3 second fuse is gone. Grenades are extremely useful in that they can be pulled quickly and set-up. This makes it best to use when you really do not have much time to set-up any other kind of defence. The only real let down with using these are that they can be easily avoided by a few seconds of planking. This means that you need to keep bringing them out to keep your defence fresh.
The easiest thing you can do is shield drop them to generate a quick 3 second area of the stage that is covered. Shielddropping near the edge will come a few options. Some ledgehopped aerial attacks actually hit the grenade, while others just go above it. It also explodes when someone uses the attack option from the ledge. And should someone attempt to plank, the grenade can somewhat cover that option when the 3 second fuse has gone off. Shield dropping grenades anywhere else covers less options, therefore making it less useful.
Tossing grenades in combination with some cooking allows more versatility. By regular or light toss you can place a grenade on a platform making it a hotspot should your opponent decide to take an aerial approach to getting out of their situation. Light tossing (with no cooking) can take the place of shield dropping to create a temporary area in the air that if they use an aerial or airdodge past it they will grab or hit the greande, and it ends in the same effect of exploding on the ground when it falls from the air. With proper cooking times you can force the grenade to explode out over an area where an opponent will end up.
Chucking grenades has limited uses when the opponent is onstage or close to it. Tossing is generally better as you get better angles of coverage. Chucking grenades in combination with cooking is better when the opponent is offstage and you can attempt to hit them when you cannot get to them.
Grabbing a grenade can be experimented with as well. By grabbing a grenade with an aerial you cover your lag of the attack as well, or end up with an almost perfectly cooked grenade. Grabbing a grenade can be timed to explode in the invicibility frames of edgehogging.
By dropping a grenade, you place it in a location should you decide you no longer want to simply throw it. Another uses for zdropping a grenade is to jump above someone and drop it. This can either fall and explode on top of them. Dropping a grenade can also help when going offstage to hit a foe with an aerial. The grenade can be timed to either explode behind you or slightly below you when you activate your aerial with can catch people if they airdodge past you to begin with.
Preference - I use grenades as my quick fix solution when I cannot set-up any other kind of defence, or when I already have other things in place. I also use it to generate those hotspot areas where the opponent might land in an effort to push them in another direction. Rarely do I do anything fancy with them.
2D. Mortar
An explosive projectile that goes up however high you want it, then it comes back down. The longer you chrage the projectile, the higher it goes up. The trajectory is slightly angled, but only to like a degree from vertical. This will serve as a primary weapon to attack people who try recover on high, or are simply avoiding going for the ledge.
Its presence typically enacts two options. People either try to get past it, or they stay away from it on the side of the projectile they are already on.
-If someone tries to get past the projectile, they will either airdodge, jump, or attack it. Depending upon what the opponent does and how high in the air they are when this happens will affect how you react to what they do. If they are near the top of the screen, their really is not much you can do. In that situation you need to follow and predict their path. This means setting up defences quickly along the stage. If they are within range of your aerials, you can try to hit them in the lag of the option they use to get past the aerial. Another alternative is to try to making landing for them trecherous with tilts, dash attack or some other attack.
-If the opponent decides to avoid going near the projectile and go straight down to land on the stage or ledge, you should try to set-up defences during this time. It will make there approach upon getting on the stage more difficult.
Using a DACUS to attack the edge is useful as you can get to the edge more quickly and automatically start charging the mortar on your way over. You shouldnt' be afraid to spam the mortar a couple times in succesion every now and then. This ploy is difficult to get through as a single project that might have been gotten through makes them get hit by another one.
Preference - I love to use the mortar often whenever someone is recovering high. Enough said xD
2E. Tilts
Snake's tilts are powerful, and almost always lead into edgeguard attempts. Mortars, grenades, c4, etc., they all funnel people into Snake's tilts so that when they connect, they send the person flying so that you can set-up for the next edgeguard attempt.
Dtilt is probably the worst option to use in most cases as Utilt and Ftilt are far better than Dtilt. The advantage of Dtitl is that it has longer range than the first hit of ftilt and utilt. Plus, it places snake into a very low hurtbox. A potiental use is to refresh your tilts, or to use it at the very edge of the stage to hit someone away from the ledge as they come in upon it (quicker option than fsmash).
Utilt should be used on certain occasions. Constant use will stale it and eliminate your best KO move. It provides Snake with his tallest vertical hitbox possible after his projectiles. This is useful for beating out any offensive aerial approaches made at you during edgeguarding.
Ftilt acts in two ways. It can either be a hitbox that combos into itself for good knockback when the person is hit on the ground, or hit can hit someone in the air with the first hitbox and cause decent knockback (alternative to Utilt to beat out some aerials). Ftilt has enourmous range making it ideal to outrange ledge attack options or get-up options. When the opponent gets-up they are more than likely outrange in all of their ground moves making Ftilt safe to use. Should a shield be used they are simply knocked off the stage and you reset your edgeguarding. If not, they get hit by it and the same result happens. The downside is that if someone rolls behind you, you are stuck in lag.
Preference - Tilts go hand in hand with my edgeguarding style. I set-up my mortars, C4, etc. to limit options of my opponent to feed into my tilts. Dtilt I avoid altogether. I typically save Utilt to hit people on platforms or beat out certain ledge hopped approaches. Ftilt I use mostly to reset my position of the match to set-up more defences for edgeguarding.
2F. Dash Attack
Dash attack covers a large distance quickly, and Is a lesser option to use, but sometimes the only option to use. Since the dash attack will stop once it reaches the ledge of a stage but extend its hitbox offstage slightly, it is useful for generating a quick hitbox on the ledge to hit people with if they are getting to the ledge and you are too far away. Dash attack also serves another purpose. If someone is on the ledge and they shield, you can attack them which causes them to fall off the ledge along with you. This can allow you to hit someone with Bair as you fall.
Preference - I hardly ever use this option and forget I have it. Wometimes I remember it, and it helps a lot though.
2G. Aerials
Offstage edgeguarding tactic. Snake's aerials serve limited onstage usage, but is pretty much all he has for offstage. Onstage, Snake's aerials are best used against someone trying to avoid a blast from a grenade or mortar, ledge hopped aerials, or ledge jump. Offstage, aerials are godly. If you predict correctly, a hit from a fresh Bair can typically kill at mid-high percents on most of the cast offstage. Uair is more used for catching people from underneath them. Nair is an effective shield against airdodges as you can time it to fall with them and hit them out of an airdodge. Dair should not typically be seeing any use. Dair is altogether difficult to land due to timing and range unless you predict someone's recovery to a particular location to hit them with the final hit. Most often recoveries will take a couple hits, then get right out, while you are stuck in lag. Fair is like Dair. It is difficult to land, and leaves you with a log of lag. It is does however have a large and powerful hitbox should you time it correctly. If you get the range just right you will be rewarded with a spike. All of Snake's aerials require prediction. If used often, you will be predicted, miss your target, and lose the edge you had in edgeguarding.
Preference - I avoid Fair and Dair altogether. I stick with Uair and Bair for either predictable horizontal or veritcal recovery attempts. Nair I prefer to use it far offstage when someone has to go through me to recover. As mentioned above, I use this infrequently, and often times in KO ranges when that one time it hits is high reward.
2H. Fsmash
Really big boom at the cost of really large start-up and cooldown. This tool pretty much serves as a great tool against all to easy predictable recoveries. Used on stage when you see someone going directly at you. A useful tool to use when someone has to recover to the edge. Pull this out and charge it at the stage edge, and then release when they get near. The large blast radius covers slightly larger than the auto-snap, if I recall.
Preference - I find it's uses to correalate to the experience of my opponent. Less skilled they are, the more likely it is to hit. More skilled they are, the less likely it is to hit. In the end, I hardly ever use this.
2I. Throwing
Resets edgeguarding. Throwing is another move that Snake's other tools should typically funnel into. Fthrow and Bthrow enable you to send someone offstage horizontally, giving you time to set-up for edgeguarding again. Dthrow and Uthrow are not exactly edgeguarding options. Uthrow set-up for a juggling attempt (maybe edgeguarding if they decide to go offstage again). Dthrow can set-up for an edgeguarding opprotunity if you managed to Dthrow them at the ledge. Dthrow at the ledge you a very slight frame disadvantage -1. This means that if the opponent is not quick enough to escape, you can activate another attack to hit them with. In no way is Dthrow on the ledge ever guaranteed to combo into another move.
Preference - Not entirely related to edgeguarding, but somewhat. Depending upon who I face, I alternate between using Dthrow and F/Bthrow. An easy person to edgeguard, but hard to tech chase I would prefer the edgeguarding option. If they are easier to tech chase I go with Dthrow.
2J. Hugging
A universal tech that allows you go edgehog the edge quickly. Pretty much the only use for this is to edgehog people with. No idea why I added this, but it is a tool to use, might as well mention it.
Preference - I edgehog when I need to xD
2K. Nikita Missile
Wirelessly Controlled Portable Missile. The Nikita Missile increases in knockback and damage as it gains speed. It gains speed the longer it flys in a straight path. So making a lot of turns will lower the knockback and damage. The ability to press the shield button at anytime to stop the missile in midair causes it to explode when it hits the target or the ground. It can be controlled and moved in any direction, at the cost of being unable to perform any other actions.
Due to the risk of being hit when you have the missle out, it requires prior planning to what you intend to do with it so you are not punished for using it. The missle can act as an anti-planking device, a mortar dropped from a great height, or serve as a distraction. By driving the missile along the ground, you can cover any ledge options the opponent happens to use prior to the missle getting to them. If any of those options are not used, you can have it drop on drop of their head in attempt to force them on stage.
If an opponent is coming from the air to get on stage, you can angle the missle upwards and then predict their path by dropping in front of them generating a temporary wall. This will limit their options to typically airdoding past it, jump over it, or go for the ledge. By angling the missile upwards, you can have it act as a mortar when it falls to the ground. This can generate an unforeseen time of attack that the opponent cannot typically gauge.
Preference - I prefer to not use the missile all that much except against certain characters recoveries.
3. Basic Defensive Set-ups (WIP)
This section is designed to give you a basic idea of some set-ups that generally work on most of the cast and are fairly effective. It should also help to serve as a basis for any deviation you yourself come up with. No one set-up can cover everthing, there are too many combinations of stages and characters that will factor how you should go about creating set-ups. This skill of improviation is something that you'll have to learn from experience, but this should help to serve as a starting point.
1) Grenade or Mine on the ledge; Back up rolling distance away and use the mortar; tilts to cover the distance to the ledge.
Pros: This set-up is fairly quick to set-up, covers many options, and applies pressure to any opponent getting on stage.
Cons: Mines can be exploded depending upon the character from the ledge. Grenades can be stalled out from the ledge as well.
This is probably the most basic set-up you could possibly use. Go to the edge either place a mine or grenade, roll backwards. Spam mortars until the mine or grenade is exploded or the opponent tries to come back up and get ready to react to whatever it is that they try. Sadly, this set-up is extremely easy for a patient player to avoid. They just need to plank the edge until the mine or grenades are gone. However, in a limited situation when you do not have much time to set-up, this is probably the best you'll be able to manage.
2) C4 on the edge; walk slighlty beyond a rolls distance from the ledge, and place a mine or shield dropped grenade; go back to a rolls distance away and camp with mortars of various charges.
Pros: Enables a greater control of limiting options. Not weak against planking (if you aim your C4 correctly).
Cons: Requires more time to set-up, slightly less pressure to the opponent onstage.
This set-up ultimately requires more time to set-up, but will enable you to deal with pretty much all options. It also comes with a sort of fail save with a mine behind you should they get past you on stage with rolling. C4 will deal with planking. Mortar should enable you to force them in front of you using a ledge option or ledge jump option (unless they want to try to jump past the mortar, in which case the mine should hit them). The major limitation of this set-up is the usage of a mine behind. If you mess up, you could be hit into the mine or stuck with a mine in your way should they mange to get past you (which can happen with certain characters).
3) Place a C4 on the edge; stand back far enough to camp with tossed grenades and/or mortars.
Pros: Applies plenty of ground pressure when they get back on stage. Quick to set-up. Allows you to give chase if an opponent gets behind you easily.
Cons: Does not really focus on forcing someone into a particular action.
This set-up is probably best designed to take care of ledge stalling and force someone on stage. C4 acts as a one time it opprotunity to kill. And cooking grenades enable you to time it to explode at the edge, or fall off the stage and then explode. Again, the main focus is to get someone on stage. It is not the greatest method of forcing someone into a particular choice of action. If they do get on stage, grenades provide temporary pressure which will at least limit some of their ground options. Plus, against certain characters this will limit ledge hopped aerials. If you happen to have a platform in the way, you might have to jump toss them, or hard toss (or just sheild drop and chuck, but it does not go under the stage very easily). Snake's grenades when light or mid tossed actually get stuck on platforms depending upon the height, unless you jump.
4) DACUS to the ledge and charge the mortar; fire morter, place grenade, or place a c4 after the DACUS; edgehog or use an aerial
Pros: Really fast as you prep for the set-up as you chase someone's knockback. Keep pressure on opponent by trying to give them little time to focus on offence and instead on defence. Can be use for going for a kill if the aerial hits.
Cons: Depending on recoveries, they can avoid this and turn it around on you.
Say you just hit someone with your ftilt and send them flying offstage. You respond by giving chase with your DACUS, charge it a bit so that it will fire to the correct height you want it at when you reach the edge. After that you fire another mortar, set a C4, or a grenade. Then depending upon where the enemy is in relation to the stage offstage you go for an aerial attack or an edgehog. Edgehogging will cause certain laggy recoveries that normally cancel on the ledge to hit your grenade, or mortar. Or C4, but you have to jump from the ledge to get that to work. By using the mortar and aerial combined you create a sort of frame trap of sorts where they airdodge past you or the mortar just to get hit by the aerial or mortar (depends which gets airdodged first). If they get past boht of those you have your second mortar, greande or c4 left over to try to pressure them when they land on stage or the ledge.
4. In-Depth Strategies Against the Cast
BowserLimit129 helped with this summary
Bowser has a fairly easy recovery to read. We will discuss him recovering from high, and recovering from below. Bowser does not have the best recovery. It is very horizontal with a tiny bit of vertical momentum.
If he is recovering from above he may try to drop down below the ledge and upb to sweet spot it. If you think he is going to do this, you can try to double jump and b reverse a c4 and detonate. You may or may not hit Bowser, but it it is a safe option. Also, another option of Bowser's is to Bowser bomb to the ledge. Just hug the ledge before he gets to it. He will die.
If he is recovering from a middle height, hug the ledge and use a bair to edgeguard him. It will send him further away or it will kill him. If you don't have time to bair, just hug the ledge. You can jump up in time to get onto the ledge to grab him out of his up b.
Captain FalconCaptain Falcon has one of the worst recoveries in the game. However, he has two options when recovering. Side b and up b. He will always try his best to land on the stage away from you when recovering from high. So just chase him down when he is recovering from above.
When he is recovering from horizontal he will use his raptor boost. Your best option is to hug the ledge, but not too early or you will get spiked. He will miss and fall to his death, if he happens to still do the move and gets over you. Just jump up and do a bair.
When he is recovering from below he will use his up b. Just hog the ledge. He has so much lag at the end of it that you can get up from the ledge and do almost anything.
Diddy Kong Thank you Dekar173 for contributing
Diddy has a very good recovery. However, even though it is good, it is gimpable. Diddy will almost always aim to get on the ledge.
Diddy’s options when recovering are to use his side b, his peanut gun to reverse his momentum, and to use his up b(which can be charged!). Your bair hits through his side b. So if you see him going for the side b, just jump up and get that Bair in the game. Nair will not always eat through it. Bair is the best option. After Diddy does his side b. He will either do his Dair or air dodge to avoid your attack. Just play patient, you can punish this easily. While he is still falling he may try to reverse his momentum a little bit to avoid your attack. Don’t worry about this too much, it puts them a bit further off. After falling further way from the stage they will use their up b. Just run off and Bair before they get to the ledge. The Bair will cut through the up b. HOWEVER, if you do it late you will die from a dair. Its risky. The best option is to just hug the ledge. If he is recovering from an angle don’t let go of the ledge, you will survive the blast, he won’t. I mean for you to roll onto the stage when he hits it.
Donkey Kong Donkey Kong is one of the easiest characters to edgeguard. He has one option when recovering. He will use his up b to get back to the ledge.
If DK is recovering from above he will most likely use his up b to try to g et to one of the platforms or away from you. Just chase and give him a hurting.
If DK is recovering from the side he will use his Up b which you can easily interrupt with a bair. Hit him, regrab the ledge, and rinse wash repeat.
Fun tip: If DK is above 100%, and is on the ledge, walk towards the ledge until you are about an ftilts distance away. And hold jab, DK has 0 options that go through this.
FalcoEdgeguarding falco is like fox, you have to approach it differently. The only difference is that phantasm has longer range, he has a shorter UpB length, and fewer options to mix-up his recovery. Given phantasms longer range, it enables him farther access into the stage allowing him to reach platforms or other sections more quickly.
Depending where falco is offstage, that will determine how you hit him. If falco has no other option but to recover with phantasm and go for the ledge, edgehog him. If he has access to either going onto the very edge of the stage, or edge, you'll have to do a guessing game. If he goes for the ledge you can just edgehog, if on stage, then you can punish him for doing that. A better option would be to charge Fsmash on the edge and time it to hit him out of phantasm, but this can be difficult to time. But really only do this when phantasm is at it's longest reach. Any shorter, and falco will just phantasm over you onto a platform, or land on the stage behind you. It can however be a good feint to try this. You can appear to charge Fsmash forcing falco to think to go over you. Then, you just punish the ending lag.
Falco's recovery just sucks, so he should never be attempting to recover from a high height when offstage. Instead, he will try to approach from a low angle, most typically going for the ledge. If he ever does approach from on high, punish any landing lag from a phantasm usage, or make landing trecherous with various methods. If Falco is recovering from high up, it'll likely be from some other failed killing method. The best action here is to cover the stage with various hotspots. If there are any platforms, he can cancel his phantasm to try to land on one, then from there get back to the main part of the stage.
When Falco is on the ledge, use a tactic similar to what you use with Fox. Grenade, mine or c4 at the full length of phantasm, then camp the edge waiting for him to try something. Any recovery under the stage will likely be
UpB. That is a chance for a free stock. Bair him, or edgehog.
FoxEdgeguarding fox requires a different approach than others. Fox you either have to go offstage and kill, or set-up a lot of defences on stage. Once fox gets the ledge, trying to prevent him from getting onstage is difficult.
Bair is your friend offstage. It will hit him out of UpB, and hit him out of his Fox Illusion when timed correctly. Also, edgehogging ruins his recovery when he is at a distance. You either get a stock this way, or cause him to go onstage where you can punish his lag.
If fox grabs the ledge, it can be hard to predict what he will do next. He can stall underneath from the ledge with repeated shines. He can fox illusion past you, has access to all the regular ledge options. The best solution to all of this is to stay near the edge with a mine, c4 or grenade behind you at fox illusions maximum length. By doing this, you make it risky for him to try to go onstage with fox illusion, as you can punish him in the start up lag, or ending lag should he manage to get past you. Do deal with the planking, it's probably best to try to go offstage and Bair him and get him underneath the stage. Jumping, get-up, attack and roll you will have to deal with by prediction and reaction. If you ever try to use grenades or mortar, he can just fox illusion past you.
Game and WatchThank you Hylian and UTD Zac for contributing
Game and Watch is hard to edgeguard. His Up b hits us before we can hit them, so it is not worth trying to chase him off stage. Your best bet is to just hug the ledge and have him land on stage for you to hit him when he lands.
Game and Watch is really light, but he has the bucket break. So he will live for a while. Your best option is just to straight up kill him. Snake can’t really do anything about Game and Watch when he is recovering. Just hug and get up and try to punish whatever he tries to do.
Ganondorf[/SIZE]
Poor recovery. That explains pretty much all of what ganondorf has. When ganon is offstage, attempting to hit him with an aerial is not too bad an idea.
Although, watch out that you do not get sideB. If you mess up your timing, you will get ganoncided. To reduce the risk, attempt to hit ganon offstage when you have the stock lead. At least if you get ganoncided, you'll still have the stock lead and not have to worry about another stock. Since he has poor recovery, edgehogging him will either kill him, or force his recovery onstage where you can punish the lag.
If ganon gets the ledge, his options are the typical ledge option, or planking with Uair & UpB/SideB. Ganon also has the option to jump above you and attempt to Wiz Kick down, or SideB. Do not try to beat out wizkick, you'll just trade hits. SideB you should be able to spot dodge on reaction. Placing a mine near the ledge will limit a few of his options. For one, Uair and UpB planking risk hitting the mine. It will also cover his ledge attack. If he just gets-up, try to mix in grabs and Ftilt. If he rolls, punish him. If he attempts to into the air, you'll either be hit with Wizkick, or he will try to jump over you. Either way, make his landing trecherous.
When ganon is recovering on high, he has limited horiziontal movement. So almost in every case he will go for the ledge. Beware that ganon might attempt to hit you with Dair or Wiz Kick from on high. To avoid this, do not attempt to hit him in the air when you are underneath him. Just punish his landing. Wiz Kick has 2 hitboxes. The intial kick, and a shockwave when it lands on the ground.
Thank you Hylian for contributing
Ice climbers when they are high will always try to Squall to recover. Your best options are to Uair, Bair, or grab them out of it. Generally you want to Uair because of how light they are.
When Ice climbers are recovering from low they will use their up b. When Nana grabs the ledge you have time to run off the stage and do a bair to hit Popo out of the up b. Another option is to set a C4 on the ledge and wait for nana to grab the ledge then detonate it.
When you are against Solo Popo he has two options for recovering. He can squall, in which case you will uptilt, Uair, bair, dtilt, ftilt, or grab. Anything works on him.
If Solo Popo is recovering from below just hug the ledge, he is dead that way.
Ike’s recovery is horrible. His side b is interruptible if you just jump in front of it or even put a grenade in front of him.
For his up b, spam mortars and then hug the ledge. He will up b, get hit by the mortars, and he will fly further off. If you can time the hug right Ike is dead on the spot. Just don’t do mortars if you can get the timing for hugging the ledge against Ike. If he does land on the stage just jump up and bair, or just get up and uptilt.
Jigglypuff shouldn’t be recovering vs you. She should be dead straight off the bat. We can’t do anything about Jiggs recovery. But, she is so light that it doesn’t matter. If you want something to preoccupy your time just spam mortars against her.
Also, just read her jump up onto the stage and hit her.
King Dedede
King Dedede has a ton of jumps and a good up b. Don’t run off the stage against D3, or you are dead.
When D3 is recovering from above he will just use his jumps and get back on the stage. Be careful when you are chasing him. He may use his Dair , or even worse his bair. If he does an aerial you will have time to punish him. Just be quick about it.
When D3 is recovering from below he will use his jumps and then his upb. So what you do is spam mortar and then jump up and use an aerial. The Mortars will hit him and give him damage. The Aerial will kill him off. I personally like to use Nair. I have seen many Snakes use fair or bair.
Don't forget that King Dedede can swallowcide. So be careful when edgeguarding him.
Kirby has a good recovery.
When Kirby is recovering from above he will typically go above the stage and use his down b. Then cancel it. Then based on where you are he may down b again or he will just jump away. Be careful of his down b. It is actually a good move.
When Kirby is recovering horizontally he will use his jumps alongside his side b(hammer) to give him momentum to get to the ledge. If he has enough jumps he won’t use his up b to get to the ledge. However, if he doesn’t have enough jumps he will use his Up b, which is where we can punish, just up tilt through it.
When Kirby is recovering from below he will use his jumps and then depending if he got to the ledge or not he will use his up b. Which is where you punish with an uptilt for the kill.
Link
The worst recovery in the game award goes to Link. His recovery is absolute trash. It’s even worse than it was in melee. Just hug the ledge in time and he is as good as dead. The only things you have to watch out for are projectiles. What out for them get the ledge and Link is dead.
If Link is close to the ledge he will just tether to the ledge. Just toss nades til he gets up on the stage.
Lucario has a very punishable recovery.
Another thing to do is to place a mine on the stage and just ledge hog. He will most likely land on the mine.
Luigi has a great recovery. He has his side b to get back horizontally and if he jumps then does his down b he can get some great height. Then he has his up b on top of all of this.
When Luigi is recovering from above he will start with his side b. If you can get up there and hit him go for it. His Side b has plenty of ending lag in the air. After it he will b reverse with his fireballs and airdodge to land safely. Just chase and punish appropriately. If he goes extra high have a cooked nade and just throw it up there.
When Luigi is recovering from the side he will start with his side b and then will use his down b. Learn the distance for how high the down B goes. You can hit him with a bair and kill him if he does his down b.
When Luigi is recovering from below he will just start with down b. Plant a C4 and detonate it when the time is right. He will die.
Lucas has an amazing recovery overall. He has his Zap jump, Magnet pull, Tether, and his Up B on top of all of this.
Lucas when recovering from above will either land on the stage or go for the ledge. If he goes to land on the stage he is pretty much screwed. You just grab him and pummel to ftilt or uptilt.
If Lucas is recovering from the side he will do a magnet pull, if you see this coming you can get out there and do a bair. However, if you don’t read it correctly you could be in a really bad position. After this he will do his up b. Grab the ledge and use the invincibility frames to stay safe. He will either try to land on the stage or he will die. If he lands on the stage get up there and grab him. Then pummel to ftilt or uptilt.
If Lucas is recovering from below he will Zap jump then use his up b to recover. Once again grab the ledge and get up there and grab him to filt or uptilt.
Mario
Mario’s recovery sucks and is good at the same time.
He can throw fireballs at the ledge to make it safe for him to land. He can fludd you away from the ledge, then he can cape to get a little bit higher.
When Mario is recovering from high he will
Ness
Ness’s options for recovery are very weak.
He has one option his up b. You can interrupt his up b by just throwing a grenade. It won’t detonate unless you have already stripped it. If you don’t have time to throw a grenade just grab the ledge. He will be forced to land on the stage. Get up and grab him and pummel to uptilt or ftilt.
Lol
Peach recovery is such that it is dangerous for her to recover in an angle other than from on high, or low.
If she tries to approach from a low angle, she should either be using her float, 2nd jump, parasol or SideB for recovery. SideB and Parasol both have a lot of lag upon landing on the stage, so you should be able to expect them to launch these attacks and have them cancel out by auto snapping the ledge. With her float and 2nd jump she can either go for the ledge or stage. In most cases, she should go for the ledge. It's just the safest place for her to go or else you can punish her trying to land on the stage.
When peach is on the ledge, she has very few options that she can actually use. Roll, Get-up, Attack, jump, ledge hopped aerials (expect Fair has it can cancel and gets somewhat good distance past the ledge), or stalling by falling and parasol usage. If she already used her float and has not touched the ground yet, her float option does not refresh when she regrabs the ledge.
With all of this in mind, you can go about creating a set-up that should edgeguard her extremely well. If you space a mine close to the edge, but not directly on the ledge, you will have just eliminated either her get-up or attack option, and any ledge hopped aerials. Because of she tries any of those, she will hit the mine. With that option covered, you can try to cover the others: jumping, stalling, or rolling. If she tries to roll, she will roll straight into your grasp. So your presence there should be enough to deter that option. All that leaves you with is stalling and the jump option. With a little bit of prediction, you can cover those choices she has as well. A wall of mortars with make an aerial approach difficult to get past, and if she tries to stall, you can try to cook grenades or use the nikita missle to hit her.
If Peach tries to approach from on high, it will be much more difficult to predict her path. Trying to predict her path will depend upon the location of platforms (if any) and how high in the air she is already. The higher in the air she is, the further into the stage she can get. The first thing to do should be to position yourself so that no matter where she lands, it will be in front of you. Mortars can help deter peach from going past you when she is high in the air. The next thing would be to start make some choices of what you should do next. You could either try to hit her while she is still in the air, try to wait for her to get back to the ground/platform before deciding to do anything, or try to hit her in the air with an aerial. Peach has a slow falling speed, this means she has excellent horizontal range (further increased with moves such as float, UpB, and Peach Bomber). Some might try to FF Dair past you, to avoid this, just Uair, the trade off in damage is in Snake's favor.
Samus
:shiek: Shiek
Shiek actually has a good recovery. Between her chain, needles, and her up b she can get back to ledge safely. If she is close to the ledge she will just use her chain or upb and get to the ledge. If you ledge hog her before she can chain, that means she can upb and you will get hit. If you ledge hog even earlier she can just needle you and then chain.
Toon Link has a crap recovery, the only thing that is better than Link’s recovery is that his goes higher than Link’s.
Against Took Link just hug the ledge. If he goes above the stage just jump up and bair. Just do the exact same stuff against Toon Link as you do with Link.
Watch out for projectiles thrown by Toon Link.
A lot of times we'll try to just tether back. If you edgehog and make us miss, we're vulnerable as hell. Ledge dropped bair for the KO would probably work.
Thanks to Saucekay for helping out
Yoshi
Edgehog this monster.
If Yoshi is hit off the stage, he can use his upb to get back to the stage and then use his double jump. He will proceed to airdodge while still gaining that momentum from his double jump. Then if he is straight above the ledge he can do his down b to grab it. If Yoshi gets back onto the ledge he will proceed to plank and use his Up b to attack you. Make sure to start camping him with nades. But, even more importantly, get space between you and Yoshi.
Force Yoshi to get back on to the stage and then proceed to do what Snake does best. Beat him down.
Once again, edgehog this girl.
She has only one option offstage, and that is to use her up b. Just edgehog against her, use the invincibility frames to stay alive. If she goes above the stage with her up b, just jump up and grab her, uptilt her, Nair her, Bair her, whatever you feel like doing.
Original thread for move specific edgeguarding: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=253429
