Fastfalled Needle Turn Bair

[soap]

i think i found the fastest way to get below the stage and come up with a bair to kick out recovering, marths, foxes, and the like.

run off the ledge, fastfall immediately and roll the stick towards the stage, needle cancel, and jump up with a bair.

its a little risky cuz you have to press like five inputs in like a second, but not too difficult once you get the hang of it. when you do it smooth it looks like you got sucked off the stage and just pop into a kik.

this got me thinking about fastfalled needles which i never use, fastfalling then shooting a reverse needle off the central plat at dreamland 64 could be useful cuz the platform is so high, you can fastfall and still get the needle off

 

[Vegard]

Why don't you fast fall after you've turned around?

 

[pkmvodka]

Why don't you fast fall after you've turned around?

Slower.

10

 

[Shack]

i think ppl already do this, but its prolly hard at first cuz u die if u mess up the needle cancel

 

[soap]

Why don't you fast fall after you've turned around?

if you fastfall first you are fastfalling AS you turn around

 

[soap]

ive already found this incredibly useful

 

[knightpraetor]

that sounds useful..is it necessary though over just using the fair?

oh and soap can you give me a basic rundown on how i should be edgeguarding with sheik vs fox's various recoveries?

i feel so horrible when edgeguarding as sheik compared to when i'm marth and the space animal is pretty much guaranteed dead.

anyways for example, how should i respond to phantasm high..phantasm low..phantasm sweetspot.

firefox started around stage level to high, directly into you, or sweetspot..i feel like i can't really easily cover all of these options..you can go out after them if they do it predictably...but they tend to phantasm through you then if they are fast enough.

high can be baired pretty easily if you're facing away..into you you just tilt or dsmash?

then firefox sweetspot both vertical and horizontal from below the stage...if it's not sweetspotted i can pretty much just downsmash i guess?

anyways i remember hearing about bairs as they come up to hit the ledge ( as opposed to what this thread is about..bairs going out to get them)...do i just shorthop over the edge and bair it? i keep messing it up against marth it seems, but maybe it works better on fox.

anyways the worst problem is sweetspots when i don't have time to ledgehog..i feel like none of sheik's moves hit low..is dtilt the best bet?

but ya i suck with sheik as of late...i've been working on my marth and fox too much..i don't really know if i need a third either

 

[AS Money]

I wonder how many times i will pull out the chain while attempting this

 

[DieSuperFly]

Many times just like me =)

 

[AS Money]

anyways for example, how should i respond to phantasm high..phantasm low..phantasm sweetspot.

If they phantasm/illusion low they will likely not grab the edge and will not need to be attacked

 

[knightpraetor]

lol i more meant as in low above the ledge into you..in which case dsmash works wonders..tilts are a bit more risky i think

 

[soap]

fox does have alot of options.. when they come high i usually wavedash back a couple times and downsmash when they land, sometimes i bair them out of the air if i had a good read on them. its situational i guess.

as far as backthrow gimping at the ledge, i run off fastfall and come up with a nair back onto the stage. if it hits, you run off fastfall and fair. but i just started using this fastfall bair trick cuz its easier to hit with once fox starts moving with his firefox, the fair has to be timed and spaced well, with the back air all of sheiks crotch stops fox, and you can make it back to the ledge faster if necessary cuz you could use the first half of the upb to grab it.

 

[4 Aces]

Could someone have a vid of this? I'm having a hard time imagining it. After the needle cancel, do you land on a platform and then jump and do a bair?

 

[Plairnkk]

yeah, this works decent but most the time it works just as well to jump up and needle cancel

doing this can get you up+b spiked into the stage if they up+b early

 

[soap]

yea, i agree, its really situational, only use it when you need to get down there in a hurry against a recovery that you know is safe to hit out, like a firefox.
i usually just wavedash backwards and fastfall anyway, buti just saw a nihonjin vid where he does the turn around walk off and fastfalls down into a bair, that looks just as fast and leaves you less vulnerable than the needle thing.

 

[4 Aces]

I'm still having a hard time visioning this. So is it run off, reverse needle store, fast fall, bair?

 

[ArcNatural]

It's run off, fastfall, reverse needle store, double jump bair. The point of it is to make it so you attack them from below which most of the characters have their weak point.

Edit: Just think of it as, right when you fall off the stage just do a down to back quarter circle quickly, then needle charge to double jump.