G&W vs Puff

[ruhtraeel]

Could G&W be a counter? Spamming spaced aerials?

 

[bubbaking]

No way! Only two of those aerials can cancel their lag, and on top of that, Jiggs would **** G&W offstage, which wouldn't take long to happen considering how light he is and how crappy his shield is.

 

[DualCats]

G&W can be a legitimate soft-counter to Jigglypuff because he can outspace her pretty effectively. Dtilt is good against poorly-spaced bairs and obvious attempts to grab. Once she's in the air, it can actually be pretty difficult to get around G&W's nair. Off-stage, G&W has the luxury of being about to recover really low.

I have more to say, but I'm baked and need to play melee.

 

[bubbaking]

Hmmm, by soft counter, the MU is still in jiggs' favor tho, right? The one big problem w/ G&W's recovery, though, is that once it's expired (assuming you used your DJ 1st), if he's hit out of it or after it before he can land, he's pretty much screwed and Jiggs is pretty good at capitalizingo on those. Also, I'm wondering if Jiggs can CC G&W's dtilt at very low percents and rest him, since the move does have a bit of lag... :/

 

[j00t]

It's pretty much the same scenario as Jiggs vs. Young Link. Outcamp her and use your mobility.

 

[ruhtraeel]

My logic is that if you stay relatively grounded and use low-lag disjointed attacks with high priority then there's nothing she can do except maybe get behind you

like SH f-air, d-tilt and u-tilt spam

 

[Keblerelf]

cc dtilt is really good against puff if you cc an nair/fair.

g&w's fair and nair go through her stuff but they are way too slow (fair has long landing lag, nair has long start up time.)

Don't let her start spacing bairs and don't get shield poked by uptilt/uair.

 

[DualCats]

Dude, nair ***** in this matchup. Nair and fair should be used chiefly as either defensive options or out of combos, however. They are indeed really ****ing slow.

 

[ruhtraeel]

but like if they start spacing b-airs can't you just walk in there/WD in there and u-tilt lol

 

[Keblerelf]

not if they do a sh bair.


Also, fsmash is a really good kill move. wd->fsmash.

 

[bubbaking]

It's pretty much the same scenario as Jiggs vs. Young Link. Outcamp her and use your mobility.

But YL has projectiles... -_- You still need a method of adding up damage on Jiggs faster than she adds up on you.

My logic is that if you stay relatively grounded and use low-lag disjointed attacks with high priority then there's nothing she can do except maybe get behind you

like SH f-air, d-tilt and u-tilt spam

Sounds nice, but you still haven't answered whether Jiggs can CC those at low %'s. I'm pretty certain she can CC fair and that move has long enough lag that it could end badly (not necessarily w/ rest, but possibly w/ an aerial, fsmash, or even a grab). Also, I'm fairly certain that Jiggs can also CC dtilt because G&W can CC his own dtilt and Jiggs is exactly the same weight. I guess the only move I'm definitely not sure about is utilt.

Don't let her start spacing bairs and don't get shield poked by uptilt/uair.

The question is HOW do you stop Jiggs from spacing bairs? JWT just said you need to outcamp Jiggs, but you're essentially saying that G&W must be aggressive enough that Jiggs can't maintain her spacing. In addition, it is harder to prevent Jiggs from being able to space her bair than it is to prevent other chars from spacing their respective "broken" moves. Why? Because most chars' best attacking moves are in front of them. On top of that, grabs are mostly in front (Sheik's dash grab has an almost equal range BEHIND her as it does in front but I digress). Thus, one of the better positions to be in, imo, is behind the opponent, close enough to punish any screw-ups. However, you can't do this w/ Jiggs. Yet, if you decide to stay in front of her, she still has pretty good options. Her grab game is decent, fsmash has nice range, fair is still a good aerial, dash attack comes out fast and is powerful, etc. I.e. it's pretty hard to outspace Jiggs (w/ G&W).

but like if they start spacing b-airs can't you just walk in there/WD in there and u-tilt lol

WD, yes, but I doubt one could utilt in time to stop another bair from hitting him in the face. Also, as keblerelf said, SHFFL'd bairs would probably be unpunishable. Let's not forget that Jiggs can change, and even completely reverse, her aerial moving direction on a dime.

not if they do a sh bair.


Also, fsmash is a really good kill move. wd->fsmash.

Just wondering. Wouldn't it be better to jab first? G&W's jab is monster and I'm thinking that Jiggs is so floaty that it would pop her up enough to be unable to avoid the fsmash.

 

[Prince_Abu]

jiggs ***** game and watch the end

 

[ruhtraeel]

I think G&W SH f-air > Jiggs SH b-air. I haven't played this matchup like at all so I dunno yet

But yeah, I don't trust more than half of the tier list right now, seeing as how YL vs Puff is apparently 60 40 Puff favour

 

[bubbaking]

jiggs ***** game and watch the end

Says the Jiggs main! >:-|

I think G&W SH f-air > Jiggs SH b-air. I haven't played this matchup like at all so I dunno yet

But yeah, I don't trust more than half of the tier list right now, seeing as how YL vs Puff is apparently 60 40 Puff favour

Probably does, but the lag is an issue. Also, the YL vs Puff MU is probably still in Jigg's favor. Just because Armada managed to beat Hbox w/ him twice in a row does NOT mean anything conclusive can be taken from it (who am I kidding ). Seriously though, it's probably still really hard for YL; it's just that so many Jiggs probably don't know the MU cuz.....who uses YL much anymore? XD

 

[ruhtraeel]

So uh I'm probably heading to my first out of city tournament this weekend. Should I pull out some G&W? Or should I just stick Falco Fox

I haven't really played any good players with G&W yet

 

[j00t]

So uh I'm probably heading to my first out of city tournament this weekend. Should I pull out some G&W? Or should I just stick Falco Fox

I haven't really played any good players with G&W yet

Do what your heart tells you!

 

[DualCats]

So uh I'm probably heading to my first out of city tournament this weekend. Should I pull out some G&W? Or should I just stick Falco Fox

I haven't really played any good players with G&W yet

Play some friendlies and try to gauge how well you do. Sometimes, it just isn't a G&W day for me.

Good luck, sir. :3

 

[ruhtraeel]

yeah I told the best player in our city to come practice tonight to prepare, but I think his Falco/Fox will destroy my G&W



I just want G&W to be a pocket counter and hopefully destroy some Puffs who don't know the matchup


been watching QERB vids

and I watched the one DualCats G&W vid on youtube



oh but one big problem I have is that I never try to lightshield

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco is better against Puff than G&W. Like, for real.

 

[j00t]

Falco is better against Puff than G&W. Like, for real.

Falco is better against any character than G&W. lul

 

[bubbaking]

I still don't exactly get how G&W can be seen as a Jiggs counter. For me, it would have to be, like, the softest of counters. Anyway, both Spacees would probably do better against Jiggs than G&W.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Ok in the tournament I pulled out G&W a couple of times, I do pretty evenly against puff with G&W vs Falco, but I do better with Fox.


G&W vs Falco is so much **** on both sides

Slightly more **** for Falco though

 

[bubbaking]

I'm not disputing your prowess at the game, but if G&W possessed so much "****" on the top 3 chars in the game, he wouldn't be 2nd-from-bottom tier.

 

[j00t]

by slightly you mean about 5x the ****

 

[DualCats]

Falco is a terrorist.

 

[Armada]

I know Tonberry used Gaw a long time ago (07?) against the best Puff in Europe and *****

Really bad that Gaw shield is terrible though =/

 

[bubbaking]

Dang Armada, why u only have 582 posts? :O

 

[ruhtraeel]

I'm not disputing your prowess at the game, but if G&W possessed so much "****" on the top 3 chars in the game, he wouldn't be 2nd-from-bottom tier.

Well I mean, G&W versus Falco once one of them starts comboing, it's pretty r@pe for both of them

Falco just doesn't need to approach and approaches a lot better with that blaster


Fox is really hard cause he runs circles and punishes every one of your moves -_-


Vs Puff it's not too hard if you space properly and be patient

Haven't really found out how vs Marth works

Tis what I realized


EDIT: What I meant was G&W is OK against Puff, probably the same as how I do with Falco, but I do better with Fox vs Puff still

 

[Beat!]

vs Marth is basically Marth waits for you to throw out a move and then punishes the everlasting hell out of your ending lag.

Alternatively you never throw out anything and watch helplessly as Marth gains control of the entire stage.

If you actually do get in on him, you can do some neat combos, and edge guarding isn't too difficult. This shouldn't happen very often at all, though.

 

[ruhtraeel]

@Druggedfox: I'm still saying that she could mix up a kick at you or on your shield safely, but it probably doesn't make enough difference to matter. I haven't played the matchup in so long I might figure out how to handle that efficiently this time haha.


Game and Watch could probably be one of those breakout characters. He's got some legit stuff in my opinion(maybe not as huge as pikachu but who knows lol he has room to move up).

I wish Ka Master had played longer........that guy was too good with Luigi.


@Mogwai: because why not =p




Edit: yeah @3 I know but I was trying to bring a little hope it might not be as bad as we always assume. I know it's awful though lol don't get me wrong.

superduperlike

 

[bubbaking]

vs Marth is basically Marth waits for you to throw out a move and then punishes the everlasting hell out of your ending lag.

Alternatively you never throw out anything and watch helplessly as Marth gains control of the entire stage.

If you actually do get in on him, you can do some neat combos, and edge guarding isn't too difficult. This shouldn't happen very often at all, though.

Well, to be honest, whoever ends up beneath the other char is at a large advantage. G&W has a bunch of nice moves and combos for opponents above him and Marth just has too low priority coming down. The converse holds true as well. The problem is that it's just much easier for Marth to get G&W up there than it is for G&W to launch Marth. On top of that, once one gets the other offstage, it's an easy gimp/edgeguard, yet again, it's much easier for Marth to get G&W off the stage. I've heard some ppl say that G&W kinda plays like a 2D Marth, and I can't really say they were too far off the mark w/ that one...

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, in some regards, GaW is sort of like Marth. A depressingly terrible crap-Marth, that is.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Well, to be honest, whoever ends up beneath the other char is at a large advantage. G&W has a bunch of nice moves and combos for opponents above him and Marth just has too low priority coming down. The converse holds true as well. The problem is that it's just much easier for Marth to get G&W up there than it is for G&W to launch Marth. On top of that, once one gets the other offstage, it's an easy gimp/edgeguard, yet again, it's much easier for Marth to get G&W off the stage. I've heard some ppl say that G&W kinda plays like a 2D Marth, and I can't really say they were too far off the mark w/ that one...

I would say G&W's air-to-ground play is better than Marth's purely because of the Key

and G&W is much more offensive oriented than Marth I think, cause Marths usually wait until you mess up an approach and then punish, but G&W can't do that but his SHFFL and hitboxes that last for days are easier to keep him on the offence I found

 

[bubbaking]

But Marth can be quite offensive against G&W, though, right? If he spaces correctly, he can't really be punished, and G&W's shield is so terrible...

 

[ruhtraeel]

But Marth can be quite offensive against G&W, though, right? If he spaces correctly, he can't really be punished, and G&W's shield is so terrible...

Well yeah G&W vs Marth is hard...

But G&W and Marth vs other characters in general, I think G&W can be a lot more offensive in general than Marth can.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Should I MM the best player in my city G&W vs Link

How does the matchup work?

 

[DualCats]

Should I MM the best player in my city G&W vs Link

How does the matchup work?

(lol Puff thread)

G&W vs Link can be difficult if the Link player knows how to use his projectiles and space well. G&W has not the luxury of being able to shield these. You'll spend a lot of time wavelanding around trying to intimidate him into a worse stage position and waiting for an opening. This is one match up where having a predictable approach will get you absolutely violated into oblivion. Sexually. If you just throw out shffl'd fairs, you're going to eat a lot of boomerangs and bombs. If he reads you rolls, you will probably die. And G&W's roll is really easy to punish. Sneaky grabs are important in this matchup. Don't miss an opportunity to get Link onto a platform. You can punish his tech with waveland > grabs or a nair. You can get a lot fancier than that, too. I've done some crazy **** on platforms. G&W's punishes in this matchup are pretty delicious.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i like ur spunk

 

[ruhtraeel]

(lol Puff thread)

G&W vs Link can be difficult if the Link player knows how to use his projectiles and space well. G&W has not the luxury of being able to shield these. You'll spend a lot of time wavelanding around trying to intimidate him into a worse stage position and waiting for an opening. This is one match up where having a predictable approach will get you absolutely violated into oblivion. Sexually. If you just throw out shffl'd fairs, you're going to eat a lot of boomerangs and bombs. If he reads you rolls, you will probably die. And G&W's roll is really easy to punish. Sneaky grabs are important in this matchup. Don't miss an opportunity to get Link onto a platform. You can punish his tech with waveland > grabs or a nair. You can get a lot fancier than that, too. I've done some crazy **** on platforms. G&W's punishes in this matchup are pretty delicious.

OK so G&W was a huge success tonight. Nobody knows how to play against him. I won against everything without a sword and sometimes space animals.

People don't understand how good the key and the comboflag are.

 

[SamusPoop]

Can you guys find a use for bacon, maybe sh back/foreward double bacon can create a nice, mini wall?