Ganon can start fearing Marth - Marth's Anti-Ganon Roll

[Darklink401]

So I was playing against my friend, and he was using Ganon. As we know, a popular Ganon thing to do is to fspecial into either dtilt or ftilt.

However, if you hold backwards as soon as he grabs you, making you roll away when you land, he will NOT be able to follow up with either of those two options.

I haven't tried with ANY other characters aside from Villager and Sheik, and neither can roll back without getting hit.


I imagine this would shut down Ganons quite a bit, as with proper spacing, they have difficulty coming in, so they often opt to try and fspecial grab you, and then do that painful ftilt to KO Marth. Don't know if this was a thing before, or if it has already been discovered, but figured I'd mentioned it anyway.


tl;dr: Marth is immune to Ganon's foward special + ftilt or dtilt combo.

 

[Zano]

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it's called a tech roll, you push shield when you hit the ground to instantly get up, but if you hold a direction you'll roll that way too, it's been a universal thing since melee.

Besides, ganon's side b is god awful now and he should not be hitting you with a dtilt or ftilt after it ever on anyone

 

[Darklink401]

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it's called a tech roll, you push shield when you hit the ground to instantly get up, but if you hold a direction you'll roll that way too, it's been a universal thing since melee.

Besides, ganon's side b is god awful now and he should not be hitting you with a dtilt or ftilt after it ever on anyone

I knew the roll was a thing, but the fact Marth could do it after Ganon's side B and my other two mains couldn't, in time to dodge a ftilt or dtilt seemed at least situationally good.

Why is it awful? XD And if you DO hit with it, wouldnt capitalizing with a certain hit tilt attack be good?

 

[Zano]

but, you can do it with any character, there is absolutely no reason you can't.

It's awful because low priority, you can tech it, and they shouldn't be hitting you with a tilt because YOU CAN TECH IT

If I have to explain any more then I'm just going to realize this is a futile attempt at getting through.

 

[EternalFlame]

Please take note Zano that Darklink never mentions using the shield button, so that means he's going off the natural recovery roll after hitting the ground. This can lead to one of the three conclusions:
1) The percentage differences may be different from when he did the side b against Marth vs other characters
2) Marth's natural recovery is faster than the other stated characters.
3) If this was done online, then latency probably affected the chances of being able to naturally recover

Indeed, all characters can escape the move, but the factors of latency and hesitancy are what still make the move semi viable. Mistakes are but human to do at points, so there is always a chance to get caught by the side b > ftilt/dtilt setup

Darklink, the fspecial (side b) is a setup, not an actual combo, so that means any character can get out with varying amounts of difficulty. But Ganon has more tech chase options than the dtilt/ftilt. The whole purpose of the move is to get your opponents in a compromised position, where they need to hope that they don't get read by Ganon. Do consider those points I mentioned above with future testing, as a lot of that can factor into the legitimacy of moves and whatnot xD

 

[Darklink401]

Please take note Zano that Darklink never mentions using the shield button, so that means he's going off the natural recovery roll after hitting the ground. This can lead to one of the three conclusions:
1) The percentage differences may be different from when he did the side b against Marth vs other characters
2) Marth's natural recovery is faster than the other stated characters.
3) If this was done online, then latency probably affected the chances of being able to naturally recover

Indeed, all characters can escape the move, but the factors of latency and hesitancy are what still make the move semi viable. Mistakes are but human to do at points, so there is always a chance to get caught by the side b > ftilt/dtilt setup

Darklink, the fspecial (side b) is a setup, not an actual combo, so that means any character can get out with varying amounts of difficulty. But Ganon has more tech chase options than the dtilt/ftilt. The whole purpose of the move is to get your opponents in a compromised position, where they need to hope that they don't get read by Ganon. Do consider those points I mentioned above with future testing, as a lot of that can factor into the legitimacy of moves and whatnot xD

Mhmm, I meant with the normal roll.

I didn't know all characters could do it...huh.

I just held back and out of my three mains, Marth was the only one who could :D

Yeah, it is more of a setup I suppose XP


Also Zano, EternalFlame hit the nail in the head. I wasn't talking about teching at all.~

Also, chill brah ;D

 

[EternalFlame]

Mhmm, I meant with the normal roll.

I didn't know all characters could do it...huh.

I just held back and out of my three mains, Marth was the only one who could :D

Yeah, it is more of a setup I suppose XP


Also Zano, EternalFlame hit the nail in the head. I wasn't talking about teching at all.~

Also, chill brah ;D

People get technical with that sort of stuff, but hey, least we sorted it out and we're all on the same page now xD

 

[Darklink401]

Yup :D And for now I know I have nothing to fear from a follow up to the side special :DD

 

[LoreLes]

Just to add a little input, every character can literally just get up attack Ganon before he can go into any tilts.

 

[Darklink401]

Hmm....interesting....well, my friend is screwed~

 

[EternalFlame]

Hmm....interesting....well, my friend is screwed~

Until he learns how to do the tech chases, like just using side b again upon seeing the roll xD

Though the person on the ground could just do a getup attack, which grants brief invincibility, but then Ganon could just jump and Dair them. Its a give and take, but it'll be good of ya to train your friend to learn that xD

 

[Darklink401]

He's trying to get better at Smash, so I'll definitely give him those tips~ ;D thanks

 

[EternalFlame]

No worries dude. Though it may be better to ask Ganon mains on how to do that correctly. I'm just basing that information on the few Ganon's I've seen on video xD

 

[Darklink401]

I mean Ganon's strategy seems pretty simple: punch to kill.

Seriously his attacks hurt.

 

[Meek Moths]

the thing is: some characters are able to roll away from flame choke even without teching, like captain falcon, but some are guaranteed to be hit by dtilt or sometimes ftilt if they miss a tech, like GW or megaman

but any character can tech out of it and roll away. a trained ganon player should anticipate this and use flame choke again in the direction they rolled away, and if he is lucky with reading opponents moves, he could be able to repeat this a few times. if they use a get-up attack, just shield and punish! it definitely is not a useless move at all.

 

[Xinc]

Please note that back rolling isn't a surefire way to win. If Ganon anticipates this, he could deal out a Wizard's foot or a run and then choke to reset the situation. Marth is one of those characters who isn't as affected by Choke and can move away without being hit by Dtilt or Ftilt or Jab. But you should be careful about how you react, because as a punish character, a good Ganon player SHOULD be capitalizing on most of your mistakes or reactions.