Ganondorf's sword. Ganon moveset discussion

[smashkng]

This is the order we'll do
1 Jab
2 Dtilt
3 Dash Attack
4 Grab and throws
5 Uair
6 Dair
7 Nair
8 Gerudo
9 Wizard Kick
10 Fsmash
11 Fair
12 Ftilt
13 Usmash
14 Up b
15 Dsmash
16 Utilt
17 Warlock Punch

Currently discussing:
Jab

When to use it:
Uses it has:
Safety of the move:
How often should it be used (scaled 1 for almost never using it to 5 for being spammable):

 

[Z1GMA]

When to use it:
Uses it has:
Safety of the move:
How often should it be used (scaled 1 for almost never using it to 5 for being spammable):

These aren't really of much help.

 

[smashkng]

What do you mean? Maybe numbers 1 to 5 isn't important.
Also, I may change move if nobody is going to discuss our jab and how does that move help us.

 

[Noobicidal]

The only times I really use Jab is during the IASA frames of Up Smash, and as a guaranteed followup after Gerudo. The start-up lag for the move is horrible considering that it IS a Jab, and the overall duration is 34 frames, which makes it horribly unsafe on block.

I'll have to give the move 1 out of 5.

 

[DLA]

Jab is great when you do a spacing attack and you know they're going to try to punish you for it. Good examples are retreating and advancing stomp, Dtilt, Usmash, hell even back roll if they're good at punishing rolls.

The way I think of jab is a shield button that has damage and knockback. If you perform an action that you know they're going to try to punish, one of two things usually happen:

1. They have enough time to punish and you get punished (which is bad), or
2. They don't have enough time to punish, and you get to put up your shield (which they attack into, unless they grab)

The way I use Jab basically replaces number 2: buffer a Jab instead of shield after your attack, and it'll usually hit them, assuming they tried to punish.

It obviously takes discretion, factoring in disjointed hitboxes and all that. But it's definitely a nice little tactic that tacks on some extra damage, and makes them more wary of trying to punish you.

 

[smashkng]

I still think our Jab has uses, like OoS (our fastest non-aerial or grab OoS) and having a higher hitbox than Dtilt. It can decently challenge at close range against the opponent as well, though not as well as other jabs in the game. IMO it stands like this: Bad for a jab, but for Ganon who has nothing faster than that on the ground other than his horribly bad grab range, it's a decent move.

And thanks to DLA for that post, I should definitely try that punishing with jab for trying to punish Ganon.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Hadn't Z1gma made a thread of this already?

 

[smashkng]

This thread is far more focused in a single move at the same time, so it isn't exactly the same thread as Z1GMA's.

 

[Vermanubis]

This is a good idea if fleshed out properly. Smash, would you mind if I tidied up the title and original post a bit?

 

[smashkng]

If you can insert a hitbox image, it'd be good. I don't have a very good imagination, so if you can make a title that is better than Ganondorf's sword, it'd also be good. And maybe I should remove the "How often should it be used". For the safety of the move, we'd obviously need shield advantage data as well.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'll start on it tomorrow. I'll give it a good name, clean the OP up a bit and prime it for development.

 

[Makke]

.....................

 

[Z1GMA]

I'd like to add a directive:

Does Jab have anything that stands out infront of his moveset in general?

 

[smashkng]

It's our fastest ground move (other than his grab). Ganon needs his jab, even if it's bad compared to other ones.

 

[AyatoK26]

Noob pretty much summed up my usage of Jab as a counter measure for missing with U-smash and as a Gerudo followup. I definitely wouldn't use it often against those who can crouch under it or those with great oos options after block.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I like landing out of an air dodge to a buffered jab. And it's a guaranteed followup from Aerudo.

That's about all I can say. If somehow my opponent is at 180+%, I use it to kill.

 

[Moblin]

Aerudo has guaranteed follow ups? Is there a chart for this info?

Killing with jab feels amazing for some reason.

 

[TP]

No, nothing is guaranteed since the frame advantage of a normal Gerudo just isn't there.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

...

Uhhh...

Yes it is.

I'm pretty sure of that, every time I land the iDA on Meta Knight.

 

[AyatoK26]

Uh, next move soon?

 

[Exalted]

I predict we get halfway through this until it goes Ganongasm III on us.

 

[smashkng]

I don't think we'll post anything more about jab. Let's go to the next move: Dtilt