Get Off My Stage! A Guide to Edgeguarding With 3.5 Zelda

[BlackMamba]

BlackMamba submitted a new guide:

Get Off My Stage! A Guide to Edgeguarding With 3.5 Zelda - Edgeguarding techniques and options

With this guide I hope to:

1. Enlighten Zelda players to some unique properties of her moves, which they may or may not be aware of
2. Provide methods of setting up edgeguarding opportunities
3. Provide a variety of possible edgeguarding techniques for both onstage and offstage use
4. Give scenarios in which different techniques can and should be employed
5. Let people know which techniques are effective against which characters
6. Encourage Zelda players (and all other players,...

Read more about this guide...

 

[BlackMamba]

Hope everyone enjoys

 

[4tlas]

I do believe you want to put the guide in a separate section from "discussion". Not sure about that though, never made one myself.

As for the content of the guide, you were very thorough and I agree with most everything you said. I'm too lazy/busy to bother thinking up a proper argument about the parts I disagree with right now, though. Sorry!

 

[4tlas]

Edit: Damn internet.

 

[BlackMamba]

I do believe you want to put the guide in a separate section from "discussion". Not sure about that though, never made one myself.

As for the content of the guide, you were very thorough and I agree with most everything you said. I'm too lazy/busy to bother thinking up a proper argument about the parts I disagree with right now, though. Sorry!

I think you're right, I believe I just fixed it. It's just kind of odd to figure out lol

 

[Downdraft]

Welcome to the Project M Zelda board! I felt that your guide was well written, organized, and planned; however, I believe that too many options were missing. Since you included a few moderate or situational methods, I will list a few others that might be of similar quality, and it wouldn't hurt to add more opponent specific methods. I think sections I and II are perfect enough, but the latter sections could be updated. If there's anything wrong with the options I list, please let me know, so I can avoid using them.

Options

1. Forward throw the opponent into a Din's mine and Lightning Kick them off the hit. Depending on their DI and damage, the Din's mine doesn't necessarily have to be a part of the equation.
2. Place a Din's fire right below the ledge then Meteor Heel the opponent if it interrupts their recovery.
3. In general, you can land kill moves off of a Din's fire mine if you're prepared. If the mine is close enough, you can land a kill move that launches them into the floating mine, then input another kill move.
4. Regarding Lightning Kicks onstage, you can rise off the ledge and Lightning Kick opponents that are forced to recover above the stage like Donkey Kong, Bowser, and Dedede.
5. Regarding Lightning Kicks offstage, they can be used against opponents that haven't used their recovery specials yet. Lightning Kicks can also catch opponents whose recoveries stall like Lucas, Ness, and Dedede. You can drop backwards off the ledge and Lightning Kick people.
6. Regarding Meteor Heels offstage, it might be better to mention the matchups where Meteor Heel offstage is feasible, e.g. Donkey Kong, Bowser, Dedede, Charizard. Bigger characters are easier to sweetspot, but I think characters such as Jigglypuff and Kirby can be caught too.
7. While situational, Zelda can go under a opponent that's below stage level (assuming the opponent can't meteor or spike you) and use Condensed Blast for the stock. Additionally, Condensed Blast's hitbox extends through the edges of some stages like Final Destination and can catch a careless opponent off guard.

I'd also consult @ the_irish_dude .

 

[the_irish_dude]

I have been summoned lol

I love all this work btw <3

Another mentioned is simply eating jumps. toss a dins off stage to characters such as Ganon, Roy, Yoshi during their jumps when they are even with the stage or close to it and then telesnap to the ledge at the right time. I'm not much of a sit down and think about it kinda guy so I'm not good at these things >.<

When I play I kinda see things before they happen so I know what will work. You guys are covering a lot of the bases tho. Simple things such as camera control can help too. Half the time people think I'm setting up for a Zhime combo when in reality I'm just making it harder for them to sweet spot the ledge. When the wiff I punish them hard.

 

[otheusrex]

Bigger characters are easier to sweetspot, but I think characters such as Jigglypuff and Kirby can be caught too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fgiVCuugTg
this is from 3.02, but should still be the same regarding thunderdrop since they weren't changed at all. This was on wifi too and the jiggly wasnt' very good, but I believe it illustrates recovery strategies where jiggly is vulnerable to sniped heels

 

[BlackMamba]

Welcome to the Project M Zelda board! I felt that your guide was well written, organized, and planned; however, I believe that too many options were missing. Since you included a few moderate or situational methods, I will list a few others that might be of similar quality, and it wouldn't hurt to add more opponent specific methods. I think sections I and II are perfect enough, but the latter sections could be updated. If there's anything wrong with the options I list, please let me know, so I can avoid using them.

Options

1. Forward throw the opponent into a Din's mine and Lightning Kick them off the hit. Depending on their DI and damage, the Din's mine doesn't necessarily have to be a part of the equation.
2. Place a Din's fire right below the ledge then Meteor Heel the opponent if it interrupts their recovery.
3. In general, you can land kill moves off of a Din's fire mine if you're prepared. If the mine is close enough, you can land a kill move that launches them into the floating mine, then input another kill move.
4. Regarding Lightning Kicks onstage, you can rise off the ledge and Lightning Kick opponents that are forced to recover above the stage like Donkey Kong, Bowser, and Dedede.
5. Regarding Lightning Kicks offstage, they can be used against opponents that haven't used their recovery specials yet. Lightning Kicks can also catch opponents whose recoveries stall like Lucas, Ness, and Dedede. You can drop backwards off the ledge and Lightning Kick people.
6. Regarding Meteor Heels offstage, it might be better to mention the matchups where Meteor Heel offstage is feasible, e.g. Donkey Kong, Bowser, Dedede, Charizard. Bigger characters are easier to sweetspot, but I think characters such as Jigglypuff and Kirby can be caught too.
7. While situational, Zelda can go under a opponent that's below stage level (assuming the opponent can't meteor or spike you) and use Condensed Blast for the stock. Additionally, Condensed Blast's hitbox extends through the edges of some stages like Final Destination and can catch a careless opponent off guard.

I'd also consult @ the_irish_dude .

Thanks for the review! I'll add in the stuff you mentioned once I get a chance

 

[AnEnemyMongoose]

I was thinking that maybe if you are stuck on the ledge and you ledgehop > waveland > f-tilt and hit the sweet spot at mid/high percentages, if it hits your opponent you can set it up for an edgeguard (since it sends people backwards at an angle). It's risky, but potentially rewarding, I think. Feedback? It's just an idea, so I'd love criticism.

 

[Fearless]

How do I recover against Zelda?

 

[the_irish_dude]

that all depends on who you are... Im assuming lucario? It's usually best to recover high or atleast mix up your recoveries. sweet spotting the ledge is nice. dont use your double jump too soon.

 

[Po3T]

that all depends on who you are... Im assuming lucario? It's usually best to recover high or atleast mix up your recoveries. sweet spotting the ledge is nice. dont use your double jump too soon.

Is her Din's Fire really crucial in her gameplay. I tend to not use it much (Mainly because I still don't quite understand how it works now). When I use it, 8/10 times, it goes under the stage, regardless of where I am at.

 

[the_irish_dude]

PO3T! <3

Yea dude. Don't focus so much on how it comes back to you right now. That will come with time. Focus on Dins placement and how it can work to your advantage.

 

[Po3T]

PO3T! <3

Yea dude. Don't focus so much on how it comes back to you right now. That will come with time. Focus on Dins placement and how it can work to your advantage.

Yep, I have decided to make an account to learn more.
Any combo tips for Zelda?

 

[the_irish_dude]

the shortest distance you can toss dins is about the same knockback distance of nayrus, nair, f-throw. So you can combo for example nair -toss dins- toe

 

[Po3T]

You continue to be awesome sir. Thanks.
I have more questions but I need to start playing more PM matches, which is hard to find here

 

[the_irish_dude]

add me to skype if you have it the_irish_dude

 

[Po3T]

Ok, I'll create one and add you.

 

[Downdraft]

add me to skype if you have it the_irish_dude

You play PM WiFi?

 

[the_irish_dude]

I do not unfortunately :/

 

[JOE!]

Riot managed to essentially trap me near FD's lip to death by placing a Din's -just so-, preventing me from sweet spotting or passing through with my Up B. It was pretty slick and he managed to yo yo the fire in time with me attempting to get back to eventually get enough KB to secure the game.

Dunno if it's a legit, yet situational thing or I was doing it wrong, but hey it's there lol.

 

[4tlas]

It is something I regularly do, but it works particularly well vs Charizard. I think your upB hitbox receeds inside you at the peak (sweetspot) of the move, so you can't both sweetspot and clank the Din.

 

[JOE!]

The wings are probably clipping then since the hitbox is essentially a cone from his head to his chest