grab falling?

[ajch22]

Ok, i don't really know how to call it or if this has been addressed before, but I was trying to get used to his running grab, checking the distance and what not, and suddenly, while the cpu was near the edge I grabbed it with almost the end of the animation, but since Captain Falcon keeps ALOT of his momentum when grabbing while running, the momentum pushed me far enough to fall off the edge with the other character. At this point the opponent breaks free of the grab and both are able to either attack jump etc...

Don't know how useful this actually is, but I can picture some unexpected footstools coming from this mechanic. I guess other characters that keep enough of their momentum while grabbing might share this attribute, but for the time being that's all I have.

 

[Masonomace]

I'd like to see this. I remember something like this occurring in SSBBrawl every-now-and-then.

Footstool, Knee, or U-air may be possible follow-ups depending on how much frame advantage Falcon gets when this transpires.

 

[BigLord]

There was a video of exactly this "technique" on the video thread, the other day:

If we could do this on purpose, it really has a lot of potential.

 

[ajch22]

There was a video of exactly this "technique" on the video thread, the other day:



If we could do this on purpose, it really has a lot of potential.

You can do it on purpose, that's for sure, the thing is the timing and positioning, I am almost certain that in order to do this you have to reach the edge with the ending horizontal momentum of your grab, otherwise you will automatically be stopped when you reach the edge.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Another thing is I believe you have to pummel them for it to work. If you just run and grab you'll side to the edge but you won't slide off.

 

[Metalex]

Yeah according to my experience with this i also think you need to pummel the opponent for it to work, or at least it's much more easy to pull off when you do it.
It's not easy to do consistently but i think it's something to look more into since it can lead to a knee or other aerial if the opponent is surprised by it.

 

[BigLord]

It's certainly another option and I can confirm it only works when you pummel the opponent... at least with SOME opponents. Haven't tested the whole cast.

 

[ajch22]

You can do this without pummeling, but it is very impractical (I tried this on marth and shulk and i manage to do it, but it was extremeley situational), pummelling will be a must for more consistency. Also, this does not work on big characters, or at least i could not pull it off on bowser nor DK, but i haven't tried it on DDD yet, Ganondorf can still fall for this though, and this will probably become little mac's biggest nightmare.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Are there any characters that you DON'T want to do this on? Like maybe if you do this on a floaty, since they fall slower than you they will be in a position to footstool you instead.

 

[ajch22]

Are there any characters that you DON'T want to do this on? Like maybe if you do this on a floaty, since they fall slower than you they will be in a position to footstool you instead.

Ironically enough, Ganondorf seemed to me one of the characters that, unless he is at a high percent, he could easily come back. Maybe is because of lack of practice on this mechanic, but I could not footstool him as consistently as I would want to, so I had to spike him.

On another note, I tried this online and tried this every time I could. Perhaps it might've been lag or they could've been plain bad, but most people mash so much while they grab, that once you fall, they don't manage to react in time, literally, some died just because they could not react to the fall and either did something else and got stuck in another animation, or they did not do the inputs in time. I did not have the need to footstool them nor spike them, they went straight to their deaths

 

[BigLord]

That seems like an evil eeeeeeevil way to KO someone as Captain Falcon, then.

From this day forward, you can only use the Falcon Drop when you're using Blood Falcon.

 

[SirroMinus1]

Ok, i don't really know how to call it or if this has been addressed before, but I was trying to get used to his running grab, checking the distance and what not, and suddenly, while the cpu was near the edge I grabbed it with almost the end of the animation, but since Captain Falcon keeps ALOT of his momentum when grabbing while running, the momentum pushed me far enough to fall off the edge with the other character. At this point the opponent breaks free of the grab and both are able to either attack jump etc...

Don't know how useful this actually is, but I can picture some unexpected footstools coming from this mechanic. I guess other characters that keep enough of their momentum while grabbing might share this attribute, but for the time being that's all I have.

Haha this has happened to me a few times too haha. it felt so epic. don't remember my options not even sure if i had any

 

[Humanity]

You can do this without pummeling, but it is very impractical (I tried this on marth and shulk and i manage to do it, but it was extremeley situational), pummelling will be a must for more consistency. Also, this does not work on big characters, or at least i could not pull it off on bowser nor DK, but i haven't tried it on DDD yet, Ganondorf can still fall for this though, and this will probably become little mac's biggest nightmare.

I tested this extensively vs. Little Mac earlier today. While grab fall to footstool works consistently on the bots, it's iffy on actual people, and I feel like most of the time it's either falcon that gets footstooled or neither of you. If you react, though, Falcon can recover safely from being footstooled in this situation as long as he didn't whiff his jump before hand, so the risk isn't too high.

On the other hand, I did discover something rather more useful- Falcon's grab seems to release at a different angle if they escape during a pummel. If you perform the grab fall technique without pummeling so that Falcon hits the edge of the stage through momentum without falling, and then begin to pummel once stationary; when Little Mac escapes the grab he will be released at a (I think?) semi-spike angle that he can recover from with his jump.

What makes this interesting is that it only gives Mac one possible recovery option, and I found that a well timed down-tilt on the very edge of the stage (where you should already be) will always gimp that jump. After that, he can't do anything but fall to his death. This worked against real people as well, though I'm not certain if a more skilled mac could find a better escape from the situation. As it is now, I believe it might be a guaranteed kill so long as you nail the timing on the down tilt, which really isn't all that hard. This is a match-up specific trick, though- I'm pretty sure nobody else has a recovery so awful that this will work on them.

An observation I made that was more relevant to grab falling is that certain stages make it easier to do- I was hardly able to perform grab falls at all on omega boxing ring, but I was hardly able to avoid them on omega Mute City. Probably has something to do with the presence of the wall under the ledge.

Edit: I'd post video, but I have no way of capturing it right now. Apologies.

 

[Maître Luigi]

You could do a short hop to the first hit of the neutral aerial to a running grab, which would increase the practicality of this.

Also, I suggest trying to see if the opponent can air dodge before the toadstool hop; additionally, test whether multiple pummels during this falling grab is possible.

 

[KeketheBasedCat]

More spitballing here: I've had this happen a few times and, more often than not, ended up getting footstooled. We should definitely see if there's a definite list of characters who end up 'falling' above you, or if it's stage-dependent, or what. It also might be helpful to see if this happens with other characters, or it's just Falcon's dashgrab that does it. Likewise, I'll try to look to whether or not this technique gets more consistent with things like dash attack-canceled grab or roll-canceled grab.

What makes this interesting is that it only gives Mac one possible recovery option, and I found that a well timed down-tilt on the very edge of the stage (where you should already be) will always gimp that jump. After that, he can't do anything but fall to his death. This worked against real people as well, though I'm not certain if a more skilled mac could find a better escape from the situation. As it is now, I believe it might be a guaranteed kill so long as you nail the timing on the down tilt, which really isn't all that hard. This is a match-up specific trick, though- I'm pretty sure nobody else has a recovery so awful that this will work on them.

I imagine a better lil' mac player might be able to take that jump arch towards the stage you're talking about, except airdodge through the dtilt and then use his recovery. I'm just visualizing that, so I could be wrong.

 

[Humanity]

An observation I made that was more relevant to grab falling is that certain stages make it easier to do- I was hardly able to perform grab falls at all on omega boxing ring, but I was hardly able to avoid them on omega Mute City. Probably has something to do with the presence of the wall under the ledge.

I tried this again today, and I think I might have been imagining the stage specific differences. As long as you start pummeling before you hit the ledge, and you hit the ledge hard enough, you will most likely perform the grab fall.

I'm having trouble figuring out which characters are susceptible to Falcon's grab fall. I couldn't get it to work on Bowser, Luigi, Yoshi, or Peach. Also, the position you fall in seems to depend on the character. With Little Mac I would always wind up below him and closer to the stage, but with Ganondorf I would end up below him and further from the stage. I managed to footstool Ganon after a few tries, but @ A ajch22 was right- he came right back to the ledge after being footstooled with a quick Up Special. Seems this trick is going to be very situational.

On the subject of the technique I described above: I should revise my statement that it only works on little mac. It works best on Little Mac, but a number of other characters (Peach and Bowser I've tested so far) are also susceptible at high enough percentage (It works on Little Mac at zero). Some characters could probably save themselves if they know the trick by recovering with up special instead of the jump, but many times they'll likely go for the jump just off reflex. It should pretty much be usable on anyone with an average sized jump, so definitely not Yoshi or Ness. Even so, I'm not sure how often this will be a practical technique for actual combat. I've managed it in an actual battle before, but only while specifically searching for it against an opponent who wasn't all that good.