Greninja's perfect pivot adds a LOT to his game (copious examples within)

[maidson]

Not too many flashy combos in this video, rather an attempt to show the scenarios in which perfect pivot --> tilt moves are good or the most optimal option. Lots that I didnt explore here, such as:

• pp --> d-tilt – a great retreat option. not as much range as pp --> f-tilt, but comes out faster.
• d-throw --> pp --> b-air – a kill option near the ledge at high percent
• the mind games that come along with perfect pivots make them valuable standalone moves as well

Hope you like the video

 

[redcometchar]

Nice vid. ill add some stuff

pivot -> dtilt comes with the added benefit of being able to start a combo. I think its better than ftilt in all but a handful of situations.

pivot-> up tilt is a good antiair. Comes with the same added benefit.

pivot-> fsmash is also good because its disjointed.

 

[Onyxsbayne]

This stuff looks pretty nice. Too bad I can't seem to get the PP right.

 

[Guimartgon]

This is all so true, I've been using perfect pivots as a way to add some extra micro-spacing to my game, it's really useful to space out opponents and of course reenforces the fact that greninja almost has to be played with C-stick set to tilt.

As people have mentioned here PP Dtilt is godlike and of course nets us our sweet sweet kill confirms and is also a really safe poke.

I also enjoy perfect pivoting my water shurikens a lot, it gives me that extra space to prevent getting punished because of the endlag on shuriken, the only problem is that it can kinda corner you but sometimes the extra space is real nice(also it throws some people off)

 

[Partial_Credit]

This is all so true, I've been using perfect pivots as a way to add some extra micro-spacing to my game, it's really useful to space out opponents and of course reenforces the fact that greninja almost has to be played with C-stick set to tilt.

As people have mentioned here PP Dtilt is godlike and of course nets us our sweet sweet kill confirms and is also a really safe poke.

I also enjoy perfect pivoting my water shurikens a lot, it gives me that extra space to prevent getting punished because of the endlag on shuriken, the only problem is that it can kinda corner you but sometimes the extra space is real nice(also it throws some people off)

How does one poke with pp down tilt? If you pivot into them and dtilt, your hurtbox is between your foot and their hitbox.

 

[Guimartgon]

How does one poke with pp down tilt? If you pivot into them and dtilt, your hurtbox is between your foot and their hitbox.

I don't PP towards, I PP away, so I face them, and then throw Dtilt, I guess it's not really a poke since you're not going out of your way to hit him, but it's a maneuver that outspaces opponents that approach you and also tells people hey don't approach me, respect my space.

You can use it as a neat approach but it's not super viable, if people sit in shield or they run and shield and stuff you can PP Ditlt away unless they have a godlike grab range(you Dtilt their shield, they feel like they can grab you cause oh boy shieldgrabs --> punish)

 

[free33]

I wonder, can we Dtilt into PP uptilt? or PPdown tilt into uptilt? i'm thinking nair-dtilt-PP Utilt-bair/Uair/Uair spike/Usmash for solid early percent combos. You could probably get a double bair as well. Dtilt can go into Utilt with PP's, which is really useful for early combos.

 

[Guimartgon]

I wonder, can we Dtilt into PP uptilt? or PPdown tilt into uptilt? i'm thinking nair-dtilt-PP Utilt-bair/Uair/Uair spike/Usmash for solid early percent combos. You could probably get a double bair as well. Dtilt can go into Utilt with PP's, which is really useful for early combos.

I've gotten Dtilt into PP Utilt on tournament before, I do not know if it's true though

 

[free33]

I've gotten Dtilt into PP Utilt on tournament before, I do not know if it's true though

I was also thinking jab 1-2 cancel into PP uptilit. That could be really useful as a combo starter or kill mixup at high percents. Think that would work? The only way I see out of it possibly is is if they have a frame 3 aerial, since utilt comes out 4 frames after down tilt, but we still don't know the hitstun.

 

[Guimartgon]

I was also thinking jab 1-2 cancel into PP uptilit. That could be really useful as a combo starter or kill mixup at high percents. Think that would work? The only way I see out of it possibly is is if they have a frame 3 aerial, since utilt comes out 4 frames after down tilt, but we still don't know the hitstun.

I mean I think you can airdodge through Dtilt PP utilt, idk if you can jump out. If you can't jump then Dtilt PP Utilt is super legit, cause airdodging just gives us another punish. Jab 1 2 as a kill set up has a better conversion in Jab 1 Jab 2 --> Fsmash, where if people don't jump they'll die earlier than anything Utilt can get.

 

[free33]

I guess as a kill confirm Fsmash is better, but PP Utilt could still be a viable option at low and mid percents as a combo option. So many people cancel jab into Dtilt, but if PP Utilt works, it's a much better but harder option. Plus Utilt Uair works really well on low ceilings and platforms. EDIT: Utilt also comes out 4 frames faster than Fsmash, so it's definitely possible and seems viable.

 

[ShadowKing]

It will help with characters that need to run you down like Roy but characters like Samus who space you'll have a harder time

 

[Top Boss]

Sometimes I like to use PP away into water shuriken, so then I can keep a little bit of space between the opponent. I use it when I feel like a grounded B-reverse shuriken would put me too far away in neutral.

 

[TheblackGreninjaplayer]

Very interesting. I already use PP a alot, but using those examples is impossible for me, since i play 3ds only.

 

[redcometchar]

Pp forward, buffered turnaround dtilt into footstool is garunteed at 0.

free33

Jabs dont combo into anything. Jab 2 is like -7 or 8 on hit. Dtilt into pivot uptilt isnt garunteed until like 30 percent. Uptilt will true combo into footstool at 0.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[istudying]

Hi!

I got a question. Did you use Bidou to PP?

 

[free33]

Pp forward, buffered turnaround dtilt into footstool is garunteed at 0.

free33

Jabs dont combo into anything. Jab 2 is like -7 or 8 on hit. Dtilt into pivot uptilt isnt garunteed until like 30 percent. Uptilt will true combo into footstool at 0.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

thank you for that data. regarding the jabs, what I was saying was that since jab cancel into fsmash works as a fairly consistent kill mix up, i don't see why jab cancel into PP up tilt wouldn't work just as well or better, considering the faster frame data. depending on stage choice and position, it could work as a better kill set up (across the stage on town and city is what i am thinking of) and could convert much more damage at mid percents than a raw fsmash.

 

[Partial_Credit]

Hi!

I got a question. Did you use Bidou to PP?

No. I only use Bidou to self-destruct.

 

[Y2Kay]

Hi!

I got a question. Did you use Bidou to PP?

No, he used tilt stick

 

[free33]

Phaze is a beast, and perfectly models the amazing uses of PP's with greninja's tilts (specifically up tilt and down tilt). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C95lxRektM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZR6dKVZvx4