HenryXLII
Smash Journeyman
So I am curious to know how much Ridley benefited from 4.0. The buffs seem really nice, and might make his recovery better. Though I assume the character still has the same fundamental problems.
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How good are the 4.0 buffs?
- Thread starter HenryXLII
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Said it in the General thread, but buffing the already strong parts of his kits doesn't solve anything about his disadvantage, though it makes him even scarier.
On a scale of most to least impact, I'd rate each change as such:
Up B - Easily the change that alone makes Ridley this patch's biggest winner. Being faster increases the range/drift the move goes, and it has offensive utility now.
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Side B - The most slept on change in my opinion. I'm killing significantly earlier with it (Peach died sub 100% with good DI from my testing) when close to ledge.
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Up Smash - Hits mid-height characters in front of him now, would be the 2nd best change if smaller/crouching characters still weren't a pain to hit, IMO at least.
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Back Air - Makes "has trouble killing" a thing of the past. Now opponents have to be especially careful at 5-10% earlier than before, particularly off stage. Puts it just as close to F-smash or even landing an actual down B sweetspot when it comes to moves that can completely shift momentum of a match. Was already pretty good.
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Up Air - While it seems insignificant at first glance, but we get really dumb things like this now. Also hits the very top platform on BF with the tipper from a short hop, and it's mad good for sharking on stages with thin ledges (or that are just thin in general, like Smashville) + killing off the top almost as early as off the sides.
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Down Air* - Same "no longer momentum stall when doing it out of hitstun" change everyone with a falling down air else got, doesn't do much if anything at all.
*Not listed in the English patch notes, but it is in the Japanese ones. The Dash Attack change is apparently a placebo/incorrect patch note.
On a scale of most to least impact, I'd rate each change as such:
Up B - Easily the change that alone makes Ridley this patch's biggest winner. Being faster increases the range/drift the move goes, and it has offensive utility now.
-
Side B - The most slept on change in my opinion. I'm killing significantly earlier with it (Peach died sub 100% with good DI from my testing) when close to ledge.
=
Up Smash - Hits mid-height characters in front of him now, would be the 2nd best change if smaller/crouching characters still weren't a pain to hit, IMO at least.
-
Back Air - Makes "has trouble killing" a thing of the past. Now opponents have to be especially careful at 5-10% earlier than before, particularly off stage. Puts it just as close to F-smash or even landing an actual down B sweetspot when it comes to moves that can completely shift momentum of a match. Was already pretty good.
=
Up Air - While it seems insignificant at first glance, but we get really dumb things like this now. Also hits the very top platform on BF with the tipper from a short hop, and it's mad good for sharking on stages with thin ledges (or that are just thin in general, like Smashville) + killing off the top almost as early as off the sides.
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Down Air* - Same "no longer momentum stall when doing it out of hitstun" change everyone with a falling down air else got, doesn't do much if anything at all.
*Not listed in the English patch notes, but it is in the Japanese ones. The Dash Attack change is apparently a placebo/incorrect patch note.
Anomilus
Smash Lord
> Up B already had offensive utility before. It's just the overly pragmatic folk refused to believe and take it for a ride as a surprise kill option. Yes yes 38-39 start up. Still would use it, still got cheesy kills with it. But now it's unarguably viable now. I better see tourney players actually trying to use it.
> Didn't mention the reduced FAF when jump out. It's not major, but Ridley does have a bit of an easier time chasing down the opponent, so they'll have to respect him descending towards them.
> That Up Tilt UAir combo... Is that actual cheese?? Ridley finally has something genuinely dishonest? Good... Good...
> The DAir change is a slight improvement to Ridley's disadvantage state, and Ridley players should take anything they get.
> Not surprised about the Dash Attack faux pas. Didn't notice any real difference when using it. Frankly didn't understand why it would need a bigger hitbox. Now does that mean they simply detected placebo, or is something else supposed to have a bigger hitbox and the patch note was labeled incorrectly?
- Joined
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Both. All the confirmed changes (the changed numbers in the game itself) have been posted. Plus the Japanese patch notes make no mention of Dash Attack at all, while the English version lacks the aforementioned Down Air change.
Wigglerman
Smash Ace
As stated, they are quality of life changes but nothing game breaking. They, however, make a noticeable difference. On the other hand, I don't feel they'll be enough to push him through the tiers. If they'd give him a bit more weight without negatively affecting air mobility and his jumps I feel that'd help him a bit more...possibly. It'd help to keep him alive longer but I'm worried about making him combo bait if he gets too heavy. Yet I believe Mewtwo is heavier than Ridley now? Which feels weird if that's the case. I know M2 kept getting weight adjustments.
Predatoria
Smash Journeyman
Ahhh I finally got to play a bit recently with patch 4.0, and I must say that they are very noticeable.
I think the most noticeable one is the Wing Blitz buff. It goes so fast now. You can definitely pull off a lot more with this due to how rapidly it starts up and how fast it travels. One thing I was very happy with, in particular, is now Ridley can survive Bowser, Ridley, or Ganon side B suicides on all tournament maps because his Wing Blitz goes high enough to get back to the stage! This made a friend of mine who plays a ton of Bowser quite annoyed, which I found to be funny. You can also go way lower to come back to the stage, or way further out. You no longer need to worry about over-extending when doing walls of pain with fair or nair, and can be way more aggressive about off-stage play since it seems Ridley can go basically to the blast zone and survive with Wing Blitz. It helps with being gimped a lot too, as now he can go so far away or so low, most players cannot extend far enough to hit him out of the Wing Blitz start-up, and the extra speed he comes in with makes it harder for people to get in his way and counter or spike him out of it. It is truly a substantial buff that changes many things in Ridley's favor.
The other buffs were also quite nice, though not as immediately obvious as the Wing Blitz buff. My personal favorite is probably the buff to Up Air. It may not sound like much on paper, but what one must realize that is of critical importance is Nintendo reversed the priority on the sweet spot for Up Air. If the sweet spot hits, it now deals sweet-spot damage. Previously, if the sweet spot and sour spot both hit, it would do sour spot damage. The sweet spot was small, and difficult to hit exclusively with while simultaneously avoiding the sour spot from hitting as well, so previously the move would sour spot most of the time. Now, it seems that the move sweet spots almost every time I use it, and it is substantially easier to sweet spot with Up Air. Some Ridley players in the discord have realized that Ridley has a new, true kill confirm off of this move, by using it immediately after Up Tilt, typically around percentages close to 100 or so, depending on the opponent. I've gotten way more kills with Up Air than I ever have before. Also, I saw my Up Air go through Cloud's Down Air. I know pre-patch, Cloud's Down Air beat Ridley's Up Air, so perhaps the enlargement they did on the sweet spot (which sits atop Ridley's spikey things on the tips of his wings) makes it just big enough to contest more than it used to be able to. That can certainly be a game-changer.
The Space Pirate Rush buff is also quite significant. I'm noticing the move is killing quite a bit earlier, about 30% or so. I haven't noticed the frame buff on release of SPR, as it was quite small. The move definitely feels like a threat when players creep up past 100/120% or so. One thing I need to be wary of is not stale-ing this move now though, as I have a tendency to use it a lot, which diminishes its killing power. It may be better now to preserve this move's freshness until you are ready to kill with it.
The other buffs are quite straight-forwards. I can tell Up Smash is killing a bit earlier. Back Air, I'm not so sure to be honest. It feels about the same to me in-game, and there's been some confusion as to whether or not it deals more knockback, or if it just deals more damage. Either way, Ridley's back air has always been awesome anyways.
Oh! I almost forgot to mention. Ridley's Down Air no longer does that annoying thing where it'd keep going upwards and stall out in the air if you used it immediately after being hit and receiving upwards momentum. I've found it to be a bit easier to get back down to the ground as Ridley now, as I can use this move immediately out of hitstun to come down on an opponent below me, whereas before I avoided using the move in the same situation because I knew it'd do that stalling, upward momentum thing. Despite Vreyvus' use of this to his advantage in his last montage, I'm personally glad to see the move coming down instantly now. It's made the move a bit more useful, and has improved my situation a bit when I'm being juggled or am having trouble landing.
I'm not sure if Ridley will change much on the tier list, but perhaps he may move up a bit. I'm personally hoping he finally breaks into being a true mid-tier character with these buffs, which would be wonderful. He definitely feels quite a bit more potent to me, and the buffs certainly help with a few of his weaknesses, especially Wing Blitz with his restrictive, linear recovery issues.
I think the most noticeable one is the Wing Blitz buff. It goes so fast now. You can definitely pull off a lot more with this due to how rapidly it starts up and how fast it travels. One thing I was very happy with, in particular, is now Ridley can survive Bowser, Ridley, or Ganon side B suicides on all tournament maps because his Wing Blitz goes high enough to get back to the stage! This made a friend of mine who plays a ton of Bowser quite annoyed, which I found to be funny. You can also go way lower to come back to the stage, or way further out. You no longer need to worry about over-extending when doing walls of pain with fair or nair, and can be way more aggressive about off-stage play since it seems Ridley can go basically to the blast zone and survive with Wing Blitz. It helps with being gimped a lot too, as now he can go so far away or so low, most players cannot extend far enough to hit him out of the Wing Blitz start-up, and the extra speed he comes in with makes it harder for people to get in his way and counter or spike him out of it. It is truly a substantial buff that changes many things in Ridley's favor.
The other buffs were also quite nice, though not as immediately obvious as the Wing Blitz buff. My personal favorite is probably the buff to Up Air. It may not sound like much on paper, but what one must realize that is of critical importance is Nintendo reversed the priority on the sweet spot for Up Air. If the sweet spot hits, it now deals sweet-spot damage. Previously, if the sweet spot and sour spot both hit, it would do sour spot damage. The sweet spot was small, and difficult to hit exclusively with while simultaneously avoiding the sour spot from hitting as well, so previously the move would sour spot most of the time. Now, it seems that the move sweet spots almost every time I use it, and it is substantially easier to sweet spot with Up Air. Some Ridley players in the discord have realized that Ridley has a new, true kill confirm off of this move, by using it immediately after Up Tilt, typically around percentages close to 100 or so, depending on the opponent. I've gotten way more kills with Up Air than I ever have before. Also, I saw my Up Air go through Cloud's Down Air. I know pre-patch, Cloud's Down Air beat Ridley's Up Air, so perhaps the enlargement they did on the sweet spot (which sits atop Ridley's spikey things on the tips of his wings) makes it just big enough to contest more than it used to be able to. That can certainly be a game-changer.
The Space Pirate Rush buff is also quite significant. I'm noticing the move is killing quite a bit earlier, about 30% or so. I haven't noticed the frame buff on release of SPR, as it was quite small. The move definitely feels like a threat when players creep up past 100/120% or so. One thing I need to be wary of is not stale-ing this move now though, as I have a tendency to use it a lot, which diminishes its killing power. It may be better now to preserve this move's freshness until you are ready to kill with it.
The other buffs are quite straight-forwards. I can tell Up Smash is killing a bit earlier. Back Air, I'm not so sure to be honest. It feels about the same to me in-game, and there's been some confusion as to whether or not it deals more knockback, or if it just deals more damage. Either way, Ridley's back air has always been awesome anyways.
Oh! I almost forgot to mention. Ridley's Down Air no longer does that annoying thing where it'd keep going upwards and stall out in the air if you used it immediately after being hit and receiving upwards momentum. I've found it to be a bit easier to get back down to the ground as Ridley now, as I can use this move immediately out of hitstun to come down on an opponent below me, whereas before I avoided using the move in the same situation because I knew it'd do that stalling, upward momentum thing. Despite Vreyvus' use of this to his advantage in his last montage, I'm personally glad to see the move coming down instantly now. It's made the move a bit more useful, and has improved my situation a bit when I'm being juggled or am having trouble landing.
I'm not sure if Ridley will change much on the tier list, but perhaps he may move up a bit. I'm personally hoping he finally breaks into being a true mid-tier character with these buffs, which would be wonderful. He definitely feels quite a bit more potent to me, and the buffs certainly help with a few of his weaknesses, especially Wing Blitz with his restrictive, linear recovery issues.
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HenryXLII
Smash Journeyman
I think my issue with playing Ridley was always that he had a surprisingly hard time killing despite being such a big boi... Along with the fact that his recovery was kinda crap for having wings. It sounds like they have fixed both of these issues which makes me really happy!
Wigglerman
Smash Ace
Yeah, Rid's Up Smash fix has helped loads as it now hits better in front of him as opposed to having to pivot in order to hit people proper while grounded. It's extra oomph is highly noticeable as well. His changes overall just make him more consistent and less janky to play.