How to Capitalize Against Rosalina

[itsameSMB]

Hey guys, I was wondering if you could help me figure something out about the Rosalina match-up.

Thanks to the last hit of the Nado, it's pretty easy to get rid of Luma whenever I want, but I'm left asking myself, "Now what?" without much of an answer afterwards. Usually with doc, I let the opponent come to me more and play a more punish-heavy game, but with Rosa, she can just wait for Luma to regenerate and then I have to eat whatever punish she does on the tornado or deal with Luma again, rendering it pointless.

I've been told that tossing some pills and getting her to commit to gravitational pull is a good way to start closing in, but it's such a small window and she has such large, accessible hitboxes that I'd like to know more options.

Any insight on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dobbston]

Dr. Mario has more priority than Rosalina so you can hit her out of a lot of things as long as you're not outright outspaced; Nair, Dair, Bair, Tornado, etc.

 

[Doctor_Mario]

Based on experience, I would depend on the tornado a lot. I would also depend on grabs.

If she attacks and you shield it, immediately grab and down throw + up aerial and fast fall and shield so the luma doesn't get you. This is one of the attacks I do against Rosalina.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jab2 -> Up-B is amazing against Rosalina. Just in general do it more against light floaty characters.

 

[Dobbston]

Jab2 -> Up-B is amazing against Rosalina. Just in general do it more against light floaty characters.

It seems like a really nice setup but I wish there was some comprehensive frame data on Dr. Mario; I like combos but frame traps can be pretty useful too.

Edit: One funny thing is that Rosalina is so tall that you can hit her with the last hit of the tornado through the lower two platforms on Battlefield if she's standing right under them.

Edit2: Apparently the cape can hit Rosalina under the platforms too.

 

[CasteHappy//]

I've been playing against Rosalina a lot lately, the tornado is the best tool you have. Luma always seems to go down to the nearest hole and die when using the tornado, backthrow also gets rid of Luma pretty easitly. If she starts to camp, just throw some pills, if she shields, grab her and throw her offstage, you can pretty much ruin her recovery with the cape and even more efficiently with the tornado offstage. If she spams downB, it's the same situation, but you'll have to be more smart and precise. If she tries to scape by rolling, power shield, or jump, you can read her and Up smash at everything, pivot grab, or short hop bair.

They usually start playing aggressive after losing Luma, if that happens, space her out with bair and if you don't mind getting risky, a well placed short hop Fair can trade with her Dash attack and Kill her in the middle of the stage at like 90%, or even less. Ub B is really really fast, if you know that she's going to dash attack or grab you, mash the up B. Tornado also helps to relieve pressure.

When Luma is back, just get in there and Tornado, she can punish you but Luma will be gone again, if the player needs Luma a lot in the neutral, you got the lead.

 

[itsameSMB]

Thank you for all the advice, I'm trying to implement it a bit more in my playstyle. That said, I've fought a couple smart Rosas that simple evade and camp for the 13 seconds to get luma back. Since it's really risky to approach her like I'd approach other characters, do you guys have any specific advice against these passive-aggressive Rosas?

 

[Dobbston]

Thank you for all the advice, I'm trying to implement it a bit more in my playstyle. That said, I've fought a couple smart Rosas that simple evade and camp for the 13 seconds to get luma back. Since it's really risky to approach her like I'd approach other characters, do you guys have any specific advice against these passive-aggressive Rosas?

If by evading and camping you mean running away then just be patient and play like you would against any character doing the same thing. Getting rid of the luma just means getting rid of a lot of Rosalina's tools; your playstyle shouldn't change drastically once you've gotten rid of the luma.

 

[itsameSMB]

Alright, I'll give it a shot. Thank you for all your advice.

 

[KenMeister]

Jab2 -> Up-B is amazing against Rosalina. Just in general do it more against light floaty characters.

That's pretty helpful, never knew that! Is that a true combo or a mixup? Looks like those Jigglypuff players will finally pay for DI'ing out of my jabs...

 

[Dobbston]

That's pretty helpful, never knew that! Is that a true combo or a mixup? Looks like those Jigglypuff players will finally pay for DI'ing out of my jabs...

It's not a combo, it's just a really nice setup; the best case would be if it turns out to be a frame trap.

 

[KenMeister]

It's not a combo, it's just a really nice setup; the best case would be if it turns out to be a frame trap.

Yeah I was worried about that. For some reason, I don't really go for upB's unless it's OoS like everyone else. I just reeeeeally hate the thought of missing it just because some asshole decided to airdodge it. :3

 

[A2ZOMG]

That's pretty helpful, never knew that! Is that a true combo or a mixup? Looks like those Jigglypuff players will finally pay for DI'ing out of my jabs...

It hits light floaty characters if they only try to buffer shield (meaning technically, it's a juggle). They can jump out, or in some cases try to mash aerials. Regardless, it's a confirmable KO setup that has pretty low risk. Even if they jump, you are still likely to hit them with the weak hit of Up-B.

 

[memoryman3]

As a Luigi main, use the tornado, because it has overwhelming priority over most attacks.

As a Rosalina main....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I will use this thread to develop even more counters against Dr. Mario!

 

[itsameSMB]

Well I mean killing Luma is the easy part. If you can even start the nado, it's pretty much guaranteed you'll get luma (just to land that last hit). The trouble is just getting that momentum against Rosa when Luma is gone since it's still so easy for her to space (ha ha) doc out.

 

[Deleted member]

Depends on what the Rosaluma player does imo. There's no real way to approach a Rosaluma unless they've made a move, or if you've slid behind them. The direction they face has a lot of defense for a single character imo as well... but...

I find that if you slide past luma with your dash attack (having read their basicA) then that's a free punish. It's hard to tell what the best way to beat a Rosaluma is just based on the kit alone and not a playstyle but overall id say hold onto your blankey real close for those Luma shots. I can't tell you how many times iv'e KO'd a Rosa by deflecting their own Luma before.

Best approach is - read rolls and followup with a short framed attack (preferably the UpB) or just pressure them with your pill until they roll into your desired position. Perfect shielding can only go so far when Doc can pill + nair as a followup.

P.s. Pressure is key (This applies to a lot of other characters that take advantage of projectiles. The biggest help for all doc mains is to learn to deal with projectiles. Aerial dodge at the right time to grab Diddy's banana's for an instant advantage, or cape Olimar's pikmin. Etc)

 

[Dream Cancel]

Let's start with the easiest first:

- Being off-stage or above Rosalina = You lose. Her Up-tilt and Up air come out too fast and are disjointed. That and you are easily gimped. Even if you recover low she can just throw out her disjointed Dair and you're done.

Next, you need to see how Rosalina reacts to your pills. If she lets Luma eat the hit, then don't approach and keep using pills. If she uses Down Special, you have and opportunity to punish if you're close enough. If she she shields, you need to follow with a quick grab into an immediate D-throw, F-throw, or U-throw.

Cape her luma shot. Rosalina shouldn't be using it against you anyways. Your Down Special and Down Aerial (multi-hit attacks) will serve you well (for getting rid of Luma), just be careful about ending and landing lag.

You still need to be careful even when Luma is gone. I can't stress this enough. If you do anything reckless on her shield she WILL grab you out of shield and combo you. Her ground game and smashes may be worse, but her aerials are still deadly, especially if she tosses you off-stage and goes for the gimp, in which case getting rid Luma does nothing for you.

The best case scenario for Doc is when Rosalina is vulnerable on the ledge with Doc having carefully spaced his positioning in order to cover as many options as possible, with as many heavy punishes as possible.

The worst case scenario for Doc is when he is being juggled in the air or gettting gimped/spiked off-stage by Rosalina and/or Luma.

 

[Dobbston]

Tornado eats through many of Rosalina's moves and easily kills the luma. Dr. Mario's real problems against Rosalina are range and the luma breaking Rosalina out of combos and juggles.