How viable are trees?

[Honorius]

I picked up Villager yesterday because I wanted to try him out at locals. I ended up getting 3rd but there were a few times I just switched to Little Mac because he's really familiar to me. (Worth noting, there were only 12 people) That being said, I feel like there are subtleties to Villager's strategy that I'm not really utilizing. I mean I feel like there's a basic concept. I LLoid rocket on the ground or from a short hop to try to force them into Fairs, bairs or tilts. In the early rounds, I started every game by setting up a sapling. I just figured this would keep a lot of players from approaching very offensively. It worked okay when they respected it but when they didn't....there were a few times I was just blown away. Later on in the day, I just dropped them. No trees. So my question is....is there a more potent way to implement trees that is really viable in a tournament setting?

Also, and this is a side question, what are the most potent kill options? Literally, I'd say 80% of my kills came from up tilts around 110+% I had a really hard time killing with much else. My others were either SDs, bairs near the blast zones, and some happy accidents with bowling ball. Did not use it intentionally all day. lol Looked pro when I got em though.

 

[Mtn64]

Tree is viable.
Watch some play from Ranai or Zee to get some examples, you generally aren't cutting it, usually just using the lingering hitbox off the growth. Also, the axe KOs at the same % as an uncharged Fsmash from villy.
In terms of kill options, look around the villager boards and some guides possibly. There's small chat about KO options in "Jab Reset Setups" and you can always just see what high up villagers are killing with.
Never hurts to look

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Half water your sapling so you can have the growth hitbox at a moments notice. That's what I normally do, since honestly tryna fell a tree will normally get you punished. There's been enough time and enough ePiC mEmEz for people to know to respect the falling tree and its landing hitboxes, so unless they're offstage or you KNOW you won't be punished then you shouldn't go for it. BUt anyway, when you half water a sapling, you don't water it enough for it to sprout, so that the next time you water on it it will sprout basically immediately. People still haven't caught on to that in general, so it's a lot more viable than chopping, and the hitbox lingers for a long time.

The axe hits quick and it hits HARD. It's basically a super aerial; 14%, F4, and it can be wavebounced or BReversed so you can work around the mediocre range with some nifty spacing. On the ground, you'll mostly want to use it like you would any other fast standard, when you know it won't be shielded. You can also use it as a punish after a Lloid initiated tech chase/getup roll read. Or as a decent OoS option. You can combo into it from the late hit of NAir on a lot of characters at mid to mid-high percents. If you're using it in the air, try to cross up your target so you aren't punished too badly for the whiffing. Basically effective axe use requires good spacing.

 

[Mtn64]

I'd also like to mention, because I forgot before, that if you water a fresh sapling fully and the opponent is holding shield, move towards them and SH axe as soon as the sprouting is over.
You will either shield break off shield stun, or shield poke. True combo in both cases if done fast enough and in the right position.
But yeah, pretty much what @ Indigo Jeans said.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Isnt the tree a good edgeguard as well?

Ive seen a lot of people misjudge the odd hitbox of the cut tree at the ledge.

 

[skillskillfiretruck]

i use the chopped-down tree a lot more than the tree growth.
Try to combo into it. ( first clip in my 3rd montage- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIqFNkTwxFg I get this stuff heaps of times) Especially if you have the time to set it up, then go for that option instead of just watering it 99%.

The tree is heaps good for edgeguarding. You sweet-spot place the tree near the ledge in such a way that when the tree falls down it camps on the ledge and maybe eventually falls.

 

[Honorius]

Thanks for the resources. I'm definitely watching a lot of this and going to lab for next thursday. So far, Villager seems like a good decision. My friend was telling me I needed to really branch out from Mac. The big thing I need to work on is spacing smashes because Mac's forward smash has given me some weird muscle memory. I was pulling out bowling balls for no reason. lol

 

[SoniCraft]

Yeah killing with Villager can be a chore sometimes if you're facing someone who knows how to handle villager. It really comes down to learning the character inside out and using all his tools to their full potential. I like using tree for edgeguarding, because just its presence usually forces an option from the ledge you can read like a roll or jump(because if they do normal get up you can just chop).

 

[Nein01]

Trees are the ultimate edge guardians of the smash universe.

 

[Mr.Sile]

There are matchups in which you can use the tree to relieve pressure and make the enemy think about approaching. Since the tree hits very hard, People usually respect the tree. Just to make sure, If you grow the tree, make sure to cut it once, so that the enemy is afraid of approaching. Then, start working on the offensive and spacing out your opponents. If you are at high percent, the axe is a very powerful tool to take the stock. If you manage to take the stock advantage, the tree will really help you keep it as your opponent will be wary of going in and taking the kill.

Timber is really, really important in the Sonic matchup.

Isnt the tree a good edgeguard as well?

Ive seen a lot of people misjudge the odd hitbox of the cut tree at the ledge.

Yes and not always. You can mindgame a recovering opponent by planting a tree on the ledge, attempt to cut it and doing a reverse Fsmash to punish a roll.

 

[TR33]

Not sure if you found it or already know how, but the water storing strat Indigo was talking about is pretty easy to perform. Once you start watering either buffer a jump or walk backwards until you've stopped watering the sap. Next time a unit of water hits it, it should pop right up. It's excellent for covering options at ledge in my experience since it'll beat slow get up/ get up attack/ ledge jump/ drop off>Dj on to stage.

 

[Tinkerer]

Yes and not always. You can mindgame a recovering opponent by planting a tree on the ledge, attempt to cut it and doing a reverse Fsmash to punish a roll.

What I find works quite often too is leaving the tree slightly further back there with a cut, which tends to scare people into jumping onto the stage which is easily punished with a uair.

Also, don't forget that the watering can has a really good windbox - if someone ran past your sapling to you, if you start watering properly you can push them into your sapling and grow it.