IMO Marth Is A Severely Flawed Character

[AceTechHD]

I have been playing Smash 4 Marth since October 3 2014. At this moment in time I have clocked over 650 hours in Smash 4 Wii U & 3DS combined. When I first played Smash 4 Marth it was clear as day to me that something was Amis. I just didn't know exactly what. So I did what quite a few (most) other players did, I picked up a new character. I played Shulk for a short while but ultimately found myself playing Marth once again. Over the past few years I have encountered cheap loss after cheap loss using Marth. I don't have hours and hours to edit together videos to show you today, but believe me some of these losses simply shouldn't have happened. So What I decided to do is put together a list of Marth's weaknesses compared to other characters in Smash 4. Now before you type up some long repose trying to disprove what I'm saying, just read what I have to say and ask yourself do I have a point or what.

Marth:

Strengths: Tipper, Walk speed, Sheild breaker, Good recovery.

Weaknesses: Underwhelming overall range, Spike is laughably horrible (Dair), Very weak attacks (untippered), Too much end lag, Limited combo game, limited approach game, Weak grab game, Dancing blade easy to DI out of, Easy to camp out with projectiles, Counter sometimes fails and is somtimes completely useless (try countering Cloud's fully charged F-Smash and tell me Marth's counter is good).

Now that we have Marth out of the way let's compare him to other characters.

Mario:

Strengths: Overall fast speed, Very little end lag (makes attacks very spamable), Overall powerful attacks, Easy spike (Fair), Decent range overall, Great combo game, Great grab game, Wonderfull approach game, Projectiles, Decent recovery.

Weaknesses: Mario is the most balanced character in Smash 4 and has no weaknesses I could come up with. If you have some legitimate weaknesses for Mario please let me know.

Bayonetta:

Strengths: O̶P̶... Amazing combo game, Projectiles, Ridiculous overall range, Forward special, Amazing recovery, Decent overall speed, 2 Spikes (down smash & Dair), Witch time, Bats within, Powerfull jab combo.

Weaknesses: Very punishable smash attacks, and Too much end lag.

Cloud:

Strengths: Powerfull up air, 2 spikes that are relatively easy to land (Fair & Dair), Wonderfull overall range, Fast and powerful jab combo, Limit, Cross slash, Overall powerful attacks, Overall fast ground game, Great approach game (Dtilt & Nair), Overall great combo game.

Weaknesses: Recovery (No limit), Very punishable if attacks whiffs.

I will add more to this list if need be but I think my point has been made clear. If anyone disagrees with what I've said here please post a legitimate reply and we can discuss your thoughts. Otherwise if no one has any legitimate arguments for what I've said here then that proves that Marth is overall a very flawed character in Smash 4. Now keep in mind that I main Marth and as long as I play Smash I will always main Marth. The only reason I bring this topic up is because If I don't who will?!

EDIT:

My tier list.

 

[Litany]

Marth is a character that grows significantly with the player; that is, he becomes far better as the player becomes better. Players such as Mr. E and False exemplify this more than anyone. If you're able to land tippers, nearly all of his moves are safe on shield.

That's not to say you're completely wrong however. The characters you listed are unarguably better than he is. If you look at the newest tier list, both Mario and Cloud are S-tier, with Bayonetta being in A-tier. In comparison, Marth is in C-tier. If you were to compare him to anybody in his tier or below, he would seem much better.

 

[DariusM27]

I have been playing Smash 4 Marth since October 3 2014. At this moment in time I have clocked over 650 hours in Smash 4 Wii U & 3DS combined. When I first played Smash 4 Marth it was clear as day to me that something was Amis. I just didn't know exactly what. So I did what quite a few (most) other players did, I picked up a new character. I played Shulk for a short while but ultimately found myself playing Marth once again. Over the past few years I have encountered cheap loss after cheap loss using Marth. I don't have hours and hours to edit together videos to show you today, but believe me some of these losses simply shouldn't have happened. So What I decided to do is put together a list of Marth's weaknesses compared to other characters in Smash 4. Now before you type up some long repose trying to disprove what I'm saying, just read what I have to say and ask yourself do I have a point or what.

Marth:

Strengths: Tipper, Walk speed, Sheild breaker, Good recovery.

Weaknesses: Underwhelming overall range, Spike is laughably horrible (Dair), Very weak attacks (untippered), Too much end lag, Limited combo game, limited approach game, Weak grab game, Dancing blade easy to DI out of, Easy to camp out with projectiles, Counter sometimes fails and is somtimes completely useless (try countering Cloud's fully charged F-Smash and tell me Marth's counter is good).

Now that we have Marth out of the way let's compare him to other characters.

Mario:

Strengths: Overall fast speed, Very little end lag (makes attacks very spamable), Overall powerful attacks, Easy spike (Fair), Decent range overall, Great combo game, Great grab game, Wonderfull approach game, Projectiles, Decent recovery.

Weaknesses: Mario is the most balanced character in Smash 4 and has no weaknesses I could come up with. If you have some legitimate weaknesses for Mario please let me know.

Bayonetta:

Strengths: O̶P̶... Amazing combo game, Projectiles, Ridiculous overall range, Forward special, Amazing recovery, Decent overall speed, 2 Spikes (down smash & Dair), Witch time, Bats within, Powerfull jab combo.

Weaknesses: Very punishable smash attacks, and Too much end lag.

Cloud:

Strengths: Powerfull up air, 2 spikes that are relatively easy to land (Fair & Dair), Wonderfull overall range, Fast and powerful jab combo, Limit, Cross slash, Overall powerful attacks, Overall fast ground game, Great approach game (Dtilt & Ftilt), Overall great combo game.

Weaknesses: Recovery (No limit), Very punishable if attacks whiffs.

I will add more to this list if need be but I think my point has been made clear. If anyone disagrees with what I've said here please post a legitimate reply and we can discuss your thoughts. Otherwise if no one has any legitimate arguments for what I've said here then that proves that Marth is overall a very flawed character in Smash 4. Now keep in mind that I main Marth and as long as I play Smash I will always main Marth. The only reason I bring this topic up is because If I don't who will?!

View attachment 116662

"Strengths: Tipper, Walk speed, Sheild breaker, Good recovery.

Weaknesses: Underwhelming overall range, Spike is laughably horrible (Dair), Very weak attacks (untippered), Too much end lag, Limited combo game, limited approach game, Weak grab game, Dancing blade easy to DI out of, Easy to camp out with projectiles, Counter sometimes fails and is somtimes completely useless (try countering Cloud's fully charged F-Smash and tell me Marth's counter is good)."

Good Marth players don't rely on counter to win games, but it does work when it needs to, like intercepting Cloud when he's coming down with Dair or something.

Same with Marth's Dair Spike. Very few characters in this game have solid spike setups, and most rely on airdodge reads. If a good Marth reads an airdodge, he can get the spike just as easily, it's not that hard. ---https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCEsdtipWsM

Marth has good range. That's his thing. It's a fair balance of range and speed. Compare Marth's range with Mario. You said Mario has no weaknesses.
Range is Mario's weakness. Mario and Marth are usually evenly matched on high level play, because Marth can keep Mario out with disjoint attacks.

End lag - Sheik's best endlag is a 10frame endlage fair. Marth's best endlag is a 12frame nair that gives huge rewards, and can't be punished if spaced properly, which isn't hard to do once you get used to it.

Approach - Marth is like a matador. He's a bull fighter and they are the bull. Sometimes Marth can approach, but often it's about intercepting and getting used to thriving off of allow the opponent to have space to move. Watch MK Leo.

Grab game - Marth has a guaranteed follow up with dthrow to up b, which often conditions opponents to try and airdodge. If they jump out at high percents, they put themselves at disadvantage coming down, since they wasted their jump. It's not a bad grab game. He has a good kill throw and Fthrow gets opponents far off stage, which helps against gimpable opponents.

Also, his grab release can be used for mixups, since both characters are able to move at the exact same frame, and they usually land right at jab range, and sometimes even Dtilt range, which may be even better/safer.

Dancing blade is why Mr E beat ZeRo at Evo. You have to know how to use Dancing blade, at what percents, and on what characters. At very high percents, it is not meant to string all hits together. And Sheik's combo game breaks down at very high percents also.

Mr E almost nullified Zero's projectile game with perfect shielding and out-of-perfect-shield Fair. It's a challenge to using Marth, but Marth is a challenging character that rewards very high levels of skill - Again, watch MK Leo and Mr E (But mainly Leo)

MK Leo beat Mr R 3 - 0 in a grand finals national in Mexico. Marth v Sheik. Mr R usually ranks higher in nationals than any other Sheik in the world.
And Mk Leo uses Marth at a level of skill that basically no one else uses him, and he is still improving. He beats Sheik like swatting a fly.

I use a tech with Marth that to my knowledge no one else uses with Marth -using Cstick to input fastfalls- maybe it will be a big part of the developing meta game, maybe not. The point is, the game is developing still and people are trying new things and new strategies all the time.

Marth can easily get camped out, but I don't think Mk Leo's Marth would get camped out. Leo demonstrates that if a person is extremely - extremely - skilled at the game, Marth can be one of the most rewarding characters in the game. But he's not for casuals who want EZ bake wins.

 

[AceTechHD]

"Strengths: Tipper, Walk speed, Sheild breaker, Good recovery.

Weaknesses: Underwhelming overall range, Spike is laughably horrible (Dair), Very weak attacks (untippered), Too much end lag, Limited combo game, limited approach game, Weak grab game, Dancing blade easy to DI out of, Easy to camp out with projectiles, Counter sometimes fails and is somtimes completely useless (try countering Cloud's fully charged F-Smash and tell me Marth's counter is good)."

Good Marth players don't rely on counter to win games, but it does work when it needs to, like intercepting Cloud when he's coming down with Dair or something.

Same with Marth's Dair Spike. Very few characters in this game have solid spike setups, and most rely on airdodge reads. If a good Marth reads an airdodge, he can get the spike just as easily, it's not that hard. ---https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCEsdtipWsM

Marth has good range. That's his thing. It's a fair balance of range and speed. Compare Marth's range with Mario. You said Mario has no weaknesses.
Range is Mario's weakness. Mario and Marth are usually evenly matched on high level play, because Marth can keep Mario out with disjoint attacks.

End lag - Sheik's best endlag is a 10frame endlage fair. Marth's best endlag is a 12frame nair that gives huge rewards, and can't be punished if spaced properly, which isn't hard to do once you get used to it.

Approach - Marth is like a matador. He's a bull fighter and they are the bull. Sometimes Marth can approach, but often it's about intercepting and getting used to thriving off of allow the opponent to have space to move. Watch MK Leo.

Grab game - Marth has a guaranteed follow up with dthrow to up b, which often conditions opponents to try and airdodge. If they jump out at high percents, they put themselves at disadvantage coming down, since they wasted their jump. It's not a bad grab game. He has a good kill throw and Fthrow gets opponents far off stage, which helps against gimpable opponents.

Also, his grab release can be used for mixups, since both characters are able to move at the exact same frame, and they usually land right at jab range, and sometimes even Dtilt range, which may be even better/safer.

Dancing blade is why Mr E beat ZeRo at Evo. You have to know how to use Dancing blade, at what percents, and on what characters. At very high percents, it is not meant to string all hits together. And Sheik's combo game breaks down at very high percents also.

Mr E almost nullified Zero's projectile game with perfect shielding and out-of-perfect-shield Fair. It's a challenge to using Marth, but Marth is a challenging character that rewards very high levels of skill - Again, watch MK Leo and Mr E (But mainly Leo)

MK Leo beat Mr R 3 - 0 in a grand finals national in Mexico. Marth v Sheik. Mr R usually ranks higher in nationals than any other Sheik in the world.
And Mk Leo uses Marth at a level of skill that basically no one else uses him, and he is still improving. He beats Sheik like swatting a fly.

I use a tech with Marth that to my knowledge no one else uses with Marth -using Cstick to input fastfalls- maybe it will be a big part of the developing meta game, maybe not. The point is, the game is developing still and people are trying new things and new strategies all the time.

Marth can easily get camped out, but I don't think Mk Leo's Marth would get camped out. Leo demonstrates that if a person is extremely - extremely - skilled at the game, Marth can be one of the most rewarding characters in the game. But he's not for casuals who want EZ bake wins.

I would call myself a great Marth player. That being said I know that one shouldn't rely on counter to win a match, but does that really mean it should completely miss sometimes (a lot) and other times barely do any damage when the attack countered was a fully charged F-smash? I won't even elaborate any further lets move on.

"very few characters have solid spike setups". You are somewhat correct though having "solid spike setups" was not my point. My point is the ease of use for a characters spike. I will list some of the characters that have spikes that are relatively easy to land. Mario, Cloud, Ryu, DK, Bayonetta, C-Falcon, Mega Man, Charizard, Link, Ganondorf, Wii Fit Trainer, and Lucas. Now I'm sure I left quite a few out but I think my point has been made. That video you linked to shows the player (not sure if that's you) getting juggled and spiked by a poor Mario player. I can tell that Marth player (you?) are on a completely different level than that Mario player, so why did you(?) get juggled and spiked? I'll tell you why, because Mario is a much better character than Marth. So much so that an experienced player such as yourself gets bodied and spiked by amatures. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm saying. Moving on.

Marth's range is good huh? I disagree. I'll list some of the characters that have a similar range to Marth or straight up outrange him. Ryu, Rosalina, LINK, Yoshi, Wario, C. Falcon, Pit, Dark Pit, De De De, Yoshi, Peach, Bowser, Cloud, and Greninja. If Marth's range is good then it seems like half the cast's range's are also good. Seems legit that a character holding a sword can be outranged by characters not holding a sword. Smash 4 logic. All Mario has to do to get past Marth's sword is shield and there you go free punish. If Marth's range was better Mario would have a harder time punishing a shielded attack, but of course thats not the case. Moving on.

Marth's Nair can't be punished if spaced correctly? Look I could post a video of a perfectly spaced Nair being punished wether it resulted in a getting bodied or getting grabbed into a powerful combo, a perfectly spaced Nair can definitely be punished. Moving on.

Letting your opponent move. Huge mistake against characters with spamable moves such as Pikachu, Toon Link, Cloud, or hell even Sheik. This results in getting bombarded (pun intended) by Link's bombs or Pikachu's thunder shock attack. Moving on.

Marth does not have a guaranteed followup out of down throw. Yes his up air or back air can land but can also be easily avoided. Again I could post a video where my opponent is easily able to DI or jump out of harms way after a down throw, but that is simply not needed. Moving on.

Grab release. This old trick is definitely a very dangerous route to take seeing as if your opponent knows what you're planning they can up b or jab themselves out of harms way. Moving on.

Dancing blade is a decent way to rack up damage, and as you said becomes useless at higher percents. The problem is even at lower percents dancing blade can be escaped by simply pressing up b at the correct time (with some characters) or using DI to escape before the last hit registers. Moving on.

I am not MK Leo. I am not Mr. E. I am AceTechHD. That being said I can't play like those individuals though I have seen how proficient they are with Marth. Sadly I can't replicate such proficiency. The reason they win matches is because they are incredible players not because Marth is a great character.

I'll end with this. Even in high level play such as a match featuring none other than Mr. E's Marth. You can see Marth's overwhelming weaknesses causing even the best Marth players to get bodied. Here is some footage of Mr. E at Evo just watch how easy it is to approach a Marth player.

 

[Litany]

On the topic of counter, the area where it shines the most is edgeguarding. Near any recovery move that has a hitbox can be edgeguarded with counter. Moves such as Ryu's or Mario's Up-B, which are usually difficult to contest, can be counter edgeguarded.

Having a good meteor is not the be-all and end-all. Marth's edgeguarding is amongst the best in the game, and he has the capability to edgeguard nearly anyone regardless of if his D-air is good.

Additionally, Marth's range is quite good. Characters like Wario, Yoshi and Greninja do not have comparable range to Marth. Even characters like Bowser, who do have similar range, extend their hurtboxes as they attack, meaning in a situation where both are attacking each other Marth will almost always win. Keep in mind as well, range is not simply aerial range. Marth's grounded moves have a greater disparity in range relative to the cast than his aerials.

In terms of properly spaced N-air (and other moves), well... here's a spreadsheet for frame advantage on shield.

With D-throw, it does lead to guaranteed followups. If they DI in or do not DI at all, U-air is true. If they DI away or do not DI at all, B-air is true. At high percents, D-throw to Up-B is true as well. While I cannot explicitly prove this to you, I suggest you try it out with a partner if you don't believe me.

In regards to letting people move: I doubt Darius is referring to giving up stage control, quite the opposite. I believe he means that you want to pressure an opponent into a corner and limit their options (which is one of Marth's shining strengths). Also, I wouldn't call characters like Pikachu or Cloud "spammy". Both their projectiles can be easily powershielded and punished even from a fair distance away (about 1/3 of a stage). Thus, if they try to make you approach with projectiles they leave themselves vulnerable.

Dancing Blade isn't as easy to DI as you make it seem. While at certain percents, DI can help, it won't save most characters until ~70%.

And finally, regarding the match you posted. I wouldn't say Mr. E got bodied. He did manage to take a game off of Vinnie. Mr. E is one of the best Marth players, but Vinnie is one of the best Sheik players as well. It showed Marth's flaws, yes, but also showed why he is a threat in the current metagame. At approximately 5:20 you can see Marth taking a stock at 86% from center stage. Few other characters can do that with the amount of safety that Marth can.

Reiterating my previous point: Marth isn't a top-tier character. But he does have decent tools that allow him to make do in the metagame. Sure, characters like Diddy Kong or Ryu are better - but how about characters like Yoshi, Donkey Kong or Captain Falcon? All of them have severe weaknesses as well, but it doesn't prevent them from placing decently in tournaments.

 

[AceTechHD]

On the topic of counter, the area where it shines the most is edgeguarding. Near any recovery move that has a hitbox can be edgeguarded with counter. Moves such as Ryu's or Mario's Up-B, which are usually difficult to contest, can be counter edgeguarded.

Having a good meteor is not the be-all and end-all. Marth's edgeguarding is amongst the best in the game, and he has the capability to edgeguard nearly anyone regardless of if his D-air is good.

Additionally, Marth's range is quite good. Characters like Wario, Yoshi and Greninja do not have comparable range to Marth. Even characters like Bowser, who do have similar range, extend their hurtboxes as they attack, meaning in a situation where both are attacking each other Marth will almost always win. Keep in mind as well, range is not simply aerial range. Marth's grounded moves have a greater disparity in range relative to the cast than his aerials.

In terms of properly spaced N-air (and other moves), well... here's a spreadsheet for frame advantage on shield.

With D-throw, it does lead to guaranteed followups. If they DI in or do not DI at all, U-air is true. If they DI away or do not DI at all, B-air is true. At high percents, D-throw to Up-B is true as well. While I cannot explicitly prove this to you, I suggest you try it out with a partner if you don't believe me.

In regards to letting people move: I doubt Darius is referring to giving up stage control, quite the opposite. I believe he means that you want to pressure an opponent into a corner and limit their options (which is one of Marth's shining strengths). Also, I wouldn't call characters like Pikachu or Cloud "spammy". Both their projectiles can be easily powershielded and punished even from a fair distance away (about 1/3 of a stage). Thus, if they try to make you approach with projectiles they leave themselves vulnerable.

Dancing Blade isn't as easy to DI as you make it seem. While at certain percents, DI can help, it won't save most characters until ~70%.

And finally, regarding the match you posted. I wouldn't say Mr. E got bodied. He did manage to take a game off of Vinnie. Mr. E is one of the best Marth players, but Vinnie is one of the best Sheik players as well. It showed Marth's flaws, yes, but also showed why he is a threat in the current metagame. At approximately 5:20 you can see Marth taking a stock at 86% from center stage. Few other characters can do that with the amount of safety that Marth can.

Reiterating my previous point: Marth isn't a top-tier character. But he does have decent tools that allow him to make do in the metagame. Sure, characters like Diddy Kong or Ryu are better - but how about characters like Yoshi, Donkey Kong or Captain Falcon? All of them have severe weaknesses as well, but it doesn't prevent them from placing decently in tournaments.

Yes Marth's counter can work off stage, but quite often it doesn't. In fact quite often it still misses offstage just like it does on stage. The point I am trying to make by saying Marth's counter is flawed is directly related to how weak it can be after countering a very powerful attack and how often it misses after countering an attack fair and square. I look at characters like Corrin who have a counter that is super powerful and deals crazy knock back. Why doesn't Marth receive the same treatment? This is the last time I will make this point as this is the 3rd time I'm saying this here.

You're correct having a good spike is not what makes a character good, but it seems you've missed my point. It simply doesn't make sense that Marth's spike should be so difficult to land when characters exist like Cloud who have 2 spikes that are relatively easy to land. I am familiar with how Marth's spike works in Melee and it makes much more sense than the way it works in Smash 4.

In fact quite a few characters do have a similar range to Marth. Just because Marth's F-smash does have a small chance of hitting from the top does not justify Marth's range being so close to characters not holding swords. When looking at Melee you'll see very few characters are getting past Marth's sword. That is the way it should be, but of course is not the case in Smash 4.

I don't need to open a link to know that a perfectly spaced Nair can in fact be punished.

Even if down throw to up air is as true as you make it out to be (it isn't) that "true combo" begins to fail at higher percentages while characters like Sheik and ZSS have combos out of a grab that can take stocks at very high percentages.

With a character like Marth you can not afford to give your opponent time to breathe under any circumstance. Doing so will end in said Marth player loosing. The fact that Math has no projectiles means he is a rush down character that should put pressure on the opponent at all times. I have yet to be in a situation where I was able to limit someone's option to spam projectiles. That being said yes Pikachu and Cloud can spam projectiles. Even the best players have trouble perfectly sheilding every projectile spammed at them.

Even if dancing blade isn't easy to DI out of (it is) it still fails to work at higher percentages and becomes completely useless.

Mr. E did in fact get bodied. If you missed it that Sheik player was easily able to shield 3 times in a row and simply walk up and F-smash Marth right off the stage. For a player such as myself I find it very difficult to hit with tippers consistently. That being said taking a stock from center stage at 86% is completely justified if said Marth player is skilled enough to land the tipper. The issue I still see is Marth's range.

Yoshi, DK, and Captian Falcon do have flaws, but nowhere near as many as Marth currently has in Smash 4. Want to know why? Because their attacks actually work. You're not worried about things like, hey is that F-smash actually going to land? Hey are hey going to hop out of my dancing blade? Hey is my jab going to completely miss even though the sword clearly hit my opponent? Hey is my counter going to actually hit my opponent? This is the point for this post. That is the reason I'm here bringing up this issue, because no one else will.

 

[DariusM27]

"Grab release. This old trick is definitely a very dangerous route to take seeing as if your opponent knows what you're planning they can up b or jab themselves out of harms way. Moving on."

You are both active at the exact same time after the release. If I grab released you, and you thought of preemptively countering with jab or up b, I could easily have planned on rolling behind you and punishing. It's a mix up option that basically resets neutral.

Yeah man, in all your responses it sounds like you are just describing how you personally get bodied when you try using marth, sorry. :/

And here is an example of a perfectly spaced nair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnznu6VAhgA

It's probably an input you've never done before - fastfall, nair1, fastfall. The second fastfall gets you to the ground faster - obviously.

It's 100% safe on shield and my Fsmash was half way out before his shield dropped. If I used jab, it would have landed in his face as soon as he could drop shield.

 

[AceTechHD]

"Grab release. This old trick is definitely a very dangerous route to take seeing as if your opponent knows what you're planning they can up b or jab themselves out of harms way. Moving on."

You are both active at the exact same time after the release. If I grab released you, and you thought of preemptively countering with jab or up b, I could easily have planned on rolling behind you and punishing. It's a mix up option that basically resets neutral.

Yeah man, in all your responses it sounds like you are just describing how you personally get bodied when you try using marth, sorry. :/

And here is an example of a perfectly spaced nair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnznu6VAhgA

It's probably an input you've never done before - fastfall, nair1, fastfall. The second fastfall gets you to the ground faster - obviously.

It's 100% safe on shield and my Fsmash was half way out before his shield dropped. If I used jab, it would have landed in his face as soon as he could drop shield.

In that video you posted. That Marth player almost got bodied for trying to use that grab release combo. Like I said it's a very dangerous habit to get into.

You seem to think I'm not very good with Marth. Wich is not the case. I'm not entirely sure if that Marth player in the video you posted is actually you but if it is I can see you getting bodied using Marth as well. So I guess I'm not alone am I.

I have landed plenty of perfectly spaced Nairs and they are not 100% safe on sheld. If one is fast enough they can run up and grab you as you hit the ground.

Me simply telling you my Marth is good won't do any good. If you wish to play me my NID is AceTechHD.

 

[KillLock]

Marth's range is good huh? I disagree. I'll list some of the characters that have a similar range to Marth or straight up outrange him. Ryu, Rosalina, LINK, Yoshi, Wario, C. Falcon, Pit, Dark Pit, De De De, Yoshi, Peach, Bowser, Cloud, and Greninja.

No on so many levels. If you're being out ranged by the likes of C.Falcon that's just mu inexperience, not a range issue.

 

[AceTechHD]

No on so many levels. If you're being out ranged by the likes of C.Falcon that's just mu inexperience, not a range issue.

C.Falcon's F-smash has enormous range. I don't know the specifics, but It might even outrage Marth's F-smash (horizontally).