Incorporating Shadow Sneak?

[Ludiloco]

Hey guys, long time no talk.

I've been leveling up myself as a player and my Greninja a lot. I've made a ton of progress and I just am trying to explore all the crevices of mixups this character has so I can know my options like the back of my hand.

One thing I've been playing with is shadow sneak setups. These are great at reading an airdodge or punishing a landing, and I know a few players on this board such as FullMoon like to use downthrow -> shadow sneak to punish those air dodging into the ground. But what more can we do with it? It seems like a pitifully under-utilized move in high level Greninja play for the moment. We all know its weaknesses, but its oddball timing and powerful knockback make it a really good mixup in my eyes.

But where to implement it?

Something I've been trying is when dash attack -> fair stops being true, hitting a dash attack and then spacing shadow sneak far enough away and underneath the opponent that they think they're safe for the moment, then BAM. Going deep with SS for an edge guard is definitely something I need to play with more.

Anybody else have any cool shadow sneak mixups? A shame the move really isn't good for much else, but like I said I want to know this monster's complete toolkit.

 

[FullMoon]

Shadow Sneak is a good mix-up for when the opponent shields the fully charged WS, most of the time they'll be expecting you to go for the grab when you run towards them and either spotdodge or roll to avoid it and the start-up on Shadow Sneak is just long enough to catch them while they're vulnerable.

Example:

 

[Cha0tic313]

It's also a good mix up for ledge guards. You can also use it out of upthrow. Jump and wait for them to fall a direction can catch them. At low percents you can use it as a mix up out of fthrow as well (if you've conditioned a roll or spot dodge)

 

[Cha0tic313]

And using it it to get out of combos (Luigi grab Combo, Ness gran to fair setup, etc)

 

[Blaziking17]

There's a few different uses I have with SS. The first is reading if the opponent is trying to attack from the air. Depending on the character and the move they use, you can hit them as they're getting out of the move. It's a little risky since you could possibly be hit out of the SS as the smoke starts up, but it's a worthy mix up to substitute using Greninja's aerials. Also, depending on how high they are, you can short hop or jump, then SS to mix up your approach option.

Second, if you're facing off against a projectile zoner, SS can be an alternative approach option to use if WS isn't cutting it. They may shield or roll if it's too obvious. You could potentially punish them as they get out of the roll animation.

Third, the flip kick SS (or forward SS) can be a edge-guarding tool since it covers a wide enough area in front of Greninja, plus the shadow won't be visible offstage. I would also consider practicing Hydro Pump recovery when attempting this so that you'll minimize the risk of a wrong input.

Lastly, try not to be in the idle animation when you start up SS. Short hopping backwards into SS, B reversing SS, and jumping with SS are good mix up options that won't make SS THAT obvious to the opponent. (If they're not watching the ground, of course) As mentioned above from @ C Cha0tic313 , SS has a Hitstun Cancel that can get out of those pesky grab combos from Luigi and Ness. Just input SS immediately after the grab and practice with it.
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[GooberGaming]

Shadow Sneak is a good mix-up for when the opponent shields the fully charged WS, most of the time they'll be expecting you to go for the grab when you run towards them and either spotdodge or roll to avoid it and the start-up on Shadow Sneak is just long enough to catch them while they're vulnerable.

Example:

This is a situation where I will use SS. Its a great mix up!!!

I also like to use it to punish ledge get up options. If your opponent is hanging of the edge, or recovering to the edge. Run of stage and quickly hit SS back to the stage. If your opponent gets up too quickly you will punish that option and the end lag will auto cancel when you below the stage.

 

[Spiralviper]

I fight against a player who, as C. Falcon, loves to throw out spaced F-smashes at random times (or when he thinks I'm going to spotdodge) to pressure me. If I read when he's about to do it, shadow sneak has perfect timing to avoid the attack, and punish it.

If he opts to go for a dash-grab instead, SS will avoid that, too. Just make sure to hold left so Greninja attacks in that direction.

This also works on his Mario, Luigi, and Link. (Although the timing is a little different for Link.)

 

[Helioxx]

I like using Shadow Sneak to catch landings, as a mix-up mid-string or to extend a string after the enemy is farther away. Above posters already mentioned it, but hitstun canceling is really useful, and it works similar to a pseudo counter or a way to escape situations if an opponent attempts an obvious or laggy attack or you read an approach. It's also a solid mixup to catch rolls and spot-dodges if you move often or feint approaches.

Also, I think its the only way to move while negating a ledge bump, which is really useful.

 

[Lemonade Candy]

yo, does that auto correct if they roll behind you?

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

If no direction is heldas the move is executed and your opponent rolls behind you, the attack does autocorrect itself to activate the back kick.
I've found that punishing rolls is one of the best uses of Shadow Sneak. However, to pull this off, you have to know the timing of your opponent's roll against the legnth of Shadow Sneak's invisible frames.

 

[Jenna Zant]

I don't main Greninja, but I have fought my fair share of Greninjas. One trick I found out was that you can cancel your taunts with shadow sneak for some nice mix-ups.

 

[Spiralviper]

yo, does that auto correct if they roll behind you?

I find that it only works half the time. Maybe it's because I hold the control stick without realizing it, but I've had times where the auto-correct looks for a target, but the player is spot-dodging or rolling, so it doesn't "see" them.

 

[TheOnlyGBeast]

I've found that shadow sneak mixups, both on stage and where you use it for recovering, is pretty mandatory. I've been using it to great success.

 

[Rubiss]

I just wanted to share that I often use it in the air or to punish spot dodges. An example would be if I am launched up and the opponent tries to juggle me. I will shadow sneak and often hit from the side. It can lead to some early kills, especially when the aerial battle is near the ceiling. I'll also use it as part of my recovery as well as to edge guard.

 

[Materialized JSON]

How viable is SS as a ledge get up option? I have not extensively tested it with human opponent (and I will after this point), but if you ledge drop and start charging immediately, and then jump and release it after you reached above stage, it could cover the distance almost 1/3 of FD. You could also ledge drop, charge and jump away from stage, if your opponent is ready to punish your ledge drop uair and fairs, you would end up behind them. If you are lucky, then they are still in end lag of their move. I don't know if anyone has tried this extensively, and I am curious to find out how opponents aware of this option could cover it. Thanks in advance!

 

[free33]

Anyone who ledge drops is planning an aerial most of the time. People who see this will usually shield anyway. You might as well just use fair (or bair from a wall cling) cuz they're faster and have less lag.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

It's Greninja. Fair is nowhere near as fast as bair, use that instead.
I've been using Shadow Sneak as a ledge guard by double jumping, faking an aerial finish and then catching them at the ledge with backward kick.

 

[Nameless Pariah]

How exactly do you use shadow sneak to get out of multihits?
Do you have to hold it as the hits come or is it a pre-emptive type of escape move?

 

[C0rvus]

I have been trying to apply Shadow Sneak in tech chase situations, with mild results. It's probably best when they are at kill percent of simply as a mixup.

 

[PenguinStorm]

Doing Shadow Sneak by the ledge (so that he's walking against the edge of the stage) is great mixup to catch predicatble recoveries for the kill. By fully charging (or nearly so) the SS and short hopping or full hopping right before it activates, you teleport through the air instead of using the SS just by the ledge. If your opponent doesn't know the Greninja matchup well or is airdodging (expecting a Shuriken or a Hydropump gimp), then this mixup is quite effective

 

[SwavyB]

I use it typically in place of a pivot grab punish when you can tell someone is going to attack where you are. For example: they're running in for a grab but they don't anticipate the read on your part, so you run back and input a shadow sneak in the opposite direction, release when their grab animation starts, and get a good punish on them. It doesn't really have good follow ups, but it can be a kill at high percents towards the ledge and a good way to reset to neutral if your getting pressured (ex. sheik's going for grabs).

 

[Derpnaster]

If my opponent is over aggressive and likes to chase I will sometimes do what I've coined a "Shadow Drop".
What it is is that Greninja can SS out of his sliding animation, without obviously changing direction, so as a bait I try to get the opponent to chase Greninja outright and when I get near an edge, or they get close enough, slide, SS, and as they get close or if they already are close just release behind Geninja and possibly net a stock. Not something you should do often but if they fall for it you get a lot of damage and possibly a stock at edge.

Ideally if you make the slide look convincing, like you missed a Foxtrot or just butchered a perfect pivot the desire to punish the mistake can be used to great effect. but that also required mind games which is a whole other topic.

Alos SS > Down Taunt for jokes, and to condition them to shield on Taunts

 

[maidson]

SS is an integral part of recovering from the ledge in my play style.

If you condition the opponent to think you're going to attack from the ledge (dropdown>jump>fair/nair, wall cling>bair, or just get up attack from ledge), the opponent will often leave a little standing room right at the edge of the stage so that those attacks will miss and they can punish your landing. In this scenario, you can drop down from ledge, initiate SS towards center stage, jump, and, depending on your opponent's reaction, either release SS right as you rise above the ledge, OR you can land on stage while SS is still "charging", and release SS once they try to punish your landing.

The result will usually be either an unexpectedly long SS to the face (unexpectedly long distance travelled because you began "charging" SS before your jump + no shadow indicator, which usually throws ppl off), OR if you land on stage first, it will result in an unexpectedly long SS to their backside, sending them offstage (and obviously killing often).

I've been collecting examples for a video I'm making on SS off-stage potential. This is one of 3 or 4 off stage uses for SS. But trust me this works all the time, though like anything else you gotta change it up in order to avoid getting read.

 

[Guimartgon]

^ Now that's how you incorporate shadow sneak. AlsoI don't see it mentioned anywhere but Uthrow read airdodge into Shadow Sneak kills at like 4.

 

[Epok]

https://smashboards.com/threads/mys...n-at-thread-updated-2-16-1-1-4.368764/page-15

^ Some new Shadow Sneak tech was discovered.