TheUndeadReturns
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2015
- Messages
- 49
- NNID
- House0fFastFood
A lot of G&W mains might know a lot of these, some maybe not.
Jab is weight-based, which means it doesn't scale.
Rapid Jab Frame Data;
Hit; 5-7
FAF; 13 (10 frames between each hit [12 frames that opponents have to escape]).
Back-air's late autocancel is a mere 2 frames away from autocancelling from a shorthop.
Back-air has 5 less frames of landing lag if the landing hit connects (this applies to on-shield hits as well). This is due to hitlag overlapping with landing lag.]
Back-air hit 4 can lock.
The knee lasts longer than Forward air in this game.
DASH ATTACK (not late) CLANKS WITH MARIO'S UP-SMASH.
Up-air's first hit has the angle 94, which means it sends ever so slight into G&W from the front. This is not all, as the hitboxes in particular have the special effect to reverse angles on the opposite side of the hitbox. If you don't understand what that means, think something like Mario's nair. This means from behind it will technically send at angle 86, into G&W. Despite this, the move is still garbage to land.
One of back-air's hitboxes has the angle 366. This is the autolink angle, many multi-hit moves use it, and doesn't scale in knockback/hitstun. It's unique because it sends the opponent in whatever direction G&W is moving, backward, forward, downward, and upward. The reason this is significant to gimping (to an extent), is because of how the bair hitbox and G&W's hurtbox is placed during the move. It's easy to trade with any moves coming from a downward (~315 degree) angle. Most common being Mario's and Corrin's up-special. The reason being is because of the trade. Your opponent will be sent downward because the game is trying to link them into your fastfall bair, but you're hit out of it the same frame the opponent is hit by it, so they just get sent downward. It's a very weak spike, essentially. To be specific, the angle would technically be ~280-290.
When in hitstun, the game disables the inadvertent change of momentum with momentum-changing moves during the frames of hitstun cancelling (the very end of knockback, think of how you can airdodge but not move in a direction while in combos, unless you're a character who's an exception, but that's getting too deep into it). This applies to aerials as well. This means you can use dair in a similar sense to how it's like in Melee, or PM, and not be committed to the fast-fall. This is common knowledge to most players, and it generally helps GW land. However, this can be combined with moves that have low knockback, like some jabs, and can get you out of some situations. Retro made an SB post on it awhile back, too lazy to link, sorry man. It's most important to understand the trouble of ground/air conversion in combos, and how good it is to easily be able to get out of them. Many people think this is frame 1, as GW technically lands on the first frame of dair being used, but this is not the case, as the move has early autocancel frames on 1-5, meaning the earliest is frame 6 (technically a mini-option select but I've never been able to do it). Any stupid strings just don't work in some scenarios. One off the top of my head is GW himself doing jab > grab. Pretty free, although it's better to just up-b away since it's faster. I find it's most applicable use being in rapid jabs. Again, I'm pretty sure Retro had a tiny list in his post awhile back with the ones it worked on, I'd recommend looking into it more if you're that interested.
Smash attack multiplier on full-charge (60 frames exactly on every one for every character) is 1.4x.
This basically just leaves out the decimal points, but it's still nice to know if you're a weirdo like me.
Forward-smash; 25.2%/19.6% (sweet/sour)
Up-smash; 22.4%
Down-smash; 21% exact/18.2% (sweet/sour)
(if this interests you then it would be cool to know also that for each extra frame of charge is 0.00666667x damage added (0.4 / 60)).
On the topic of Smash attacks, it's to be noted that from what I've read, there's no actual sourspot on GW's d-smash, instead the sourspot takes place if a character comes in contact with G&W's arms at any point, which is interesting. This is known as 'arm-collision'. This means it technically takes priority of the sweetspot, but it's so disjointed it doesn't even matter.
Chef's bacon angles aren't completely random, as the last 3 angles you've gotten have it's chances of appearing decrease until the move has been used 4 times (as there's 4 angles). I usually try to narrow down the angles (between stocks) to the most inward ones, as they take up a very defined amount of space, functioning more as lingering hitboxes. This also helps with eating jumps after panspikes.
Judgement 2's trip chance is 20%, meaning the chance of getting a tripping 2 is 1/14.
Judgement 7 locks at the lowest of %'s.
If Fire is edge-cancelled perfectly, Mr. Game & Watch will not regain his jump, even if he hasn't used it.
GnW suffers 40 frames of landing lag if he lands during up-b's animation. (If he's using Heavy Trampoline, this becomes 45 frames). He presumably suffers the same amount when landing during his special fall animation.
Oil Panic never dips below 18%, as it's set for this to be it's minimum (think of it how 60% is it's maximum)
Oil Panic's absorption has 50 frames of lag AFTER the absorbing animation has ended. The endlag is on a loop, so sometimes you'll get the same amount of end lag no matter what. For example, if you let go of the button on frame 18 of the loop, and on another controller you're doing the same and letting go on frame 35, you'll still get the same amount of endlag. It only varies when the button is held onto another loop interval.
Oil Panic's absorption box lasts during the entirety of the move, including during the "putting away animation".
Oil Panic's projectile multiplier is 2.8x.
Oil Panic's base damage is technically 1 (despite this, it's minimum of 18 will boost it up).
How units on Oil Panic are filled;
1 unit = 0.000001% - 9.999999% (below 10%)
2 units = 10% - 19.999999% (10%+, below 20%)
3 units = 20%+ (20% and above)
Custom Move Frame Data; (if something isn't listed, it's the same as the default version)
CHEF
C2 - (XXL Chef)
C3 - (Short-Order Chef)
JUDGE
C2 - (Extreme Judge) (approx ratio - 15-20% chance of 9)
[1 ; Base - 25 ; Growth - 55 ; Angle - 361 ; Damage - 5%]
[9 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 90 ; Angle - 361 ; Damage - 23%]
C3 - (Chain Judge)
[1 ; Active - 16-21 ; Base - 0 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 361 ; Damage - 1%]
[2 linking ; Active - 16-19 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[2 launch ; Active - 20-24 ; Base - 20 ; Growth - 20 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[3 linking ; Active - 16-19, 20-22 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[3 launch ; Active - 23-26 ; Base - 30 ; Growth - 30 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 3%]
[4 linking ; Active - 16-19, 20-22, 23-25 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[4 launch ; Active - 26-29 ; Base - 40 ; Growth - 40 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[5 linking ; Active - 16-19, 20-22, 23-25, 26-29 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[5 launch ; Active - 30-33 ; Base - 50 ; Growth - 50 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 3%]
[6 linking ; idk how the active frames work on 6+ lol ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[6 launch ; Base - 30 ; Growth - 30 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[7 linking ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 - Damage - 3%]
[7 launch ; Base - 40 ; Growth - 80 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[8 linking/launch ; Base -
I stopped at this point because the code was starting to get really confusing (there was like 14 different sections that had chain judge code so I had no idea what was real or not)
FIRE
C2 - [Active - 8-12 ; FAF - 24] (Heavy Trampoline)
[Early Hit ; Active - 8 ; Base - 75 ; Growth - 55 ; Angle - 60 ; Damage - 16%]
[Late Hit ; Active - 9-12; Base - 65 ; Growth - 45 ; Angle - 75 ; Damage - 10%]
C3 - [Active - 16 ; FAF - 60] (Trampoline Launch)
[Sweetspot - Active - 16 ; Base - 90 ; Growth - 65 ; Angle - 90 ; Damage - 12%]
[Sourspot - Active - 16 ; Base - 85 ; Growth - 75 ; Angle - 75 ; Damage - 8%]
OIL PANIC
C2 - [Base - 30 ; Growth - 70 ; Angle - 45] (Efficient Panic)
C3 - [Base - 10 ; Growth - 60 ; Angle - 361 ; FAF - 108] (Panic Overload)
Oil Panic Frame Data (on the 3 frames of animation)
First Frame; 6 active (2-7)
Second frame; 7 active (8-15)
Third frame; 11 active (16-26)
"Put Away" Animation FAF - 14 frames
Intangibility Granted on-absorb - 24 frames
Whilst spotdodging and airdodging, G&W's hurtbox actually goes slightly into the z-axis despite being 2D (presumably by about 0.5 units, idk).
If G&W is caped during usmash whilst facing right, you can see that behind part of it without the screen in the helmet. It can't be seen normally due to the change in characters with symmetrical models not turning their body around, but rather being mirrored in Smash 4 (you can see this the most with someone like Mario).
Forward Smash uses the same turnaround 'animation' (just turns one 180 degrees) is the same as normal characters, so you can see his model in the 3rd dimension turning around (albeit still flat in appearance).
All RNG has some sort of pattern, this is true in Smash Bros as well. On bootup, RNG will have a preset pattern it goes by for whatever is required. This applies to characters, and Game & Watch. Basically, sometimes you get "unlucky" with certain numbers, and sometimes you get "lucky" with certain numbers. The appearance rate of one or two numbers will appear to greatly increase as one may appear greatly decrease. This is why sometimes people just get insane luck with 9s in a set, or you see a Peach pull a ton of Bob-ombs consecutively. Of course, the RNG pattern is still random, so there's no way to know what number you're going to be lucky or unlucky with, but I think it's something that people like Game & Watch mains should take into account.
had more stuff to add, am braindead right now, will edit the post when stuff comes up, or maybe i never will idfk.
Jab is weight-based, which means it doesn't scale.
Rapid Jab Frame Data;
Hit; 5-7
FAF; 13 (10 frames between each hit [12 frames that opponents have to escape]).
Back-air's late autocancel is a mere 2 frames away from autocancelling from a shorthop.
Back-air has 5 less frames of landing lag if the landing hit connects (this applies to on-shield hits as well). This is due to hitlag overlapping with landing lag.]
Back-air hit 4 can lock.
The knee lasts longer than Forward air in this game.
DASH ATTACK (not late) CLANKS WITH MARIO'S UP-SMASH.
Up-air's first hit has the angle 94, which means it sends ever so slight into G&W from the front. This is not all, as the hitboxes in particular have the special effect to reverse angles on the opposite side of the hitbox. If you don't understand what that means, think something like Mario's nair. This means from behind it will technically send at angle 86, into G&W. Despite this, the move is still garbage to land.
One of back-air's hitboxes has the angle 366. This is the autolink angle, many multi-hit moves use it, and doesn't scale in knockback/hitstun. It's unique because it sends the opponent in whatever direction G&W is moving, backward, forward, downward, and upward. The reason this is significant to gimping (to an extent), is because of how the bair hitbox and G&W's hurtbox is placed during the move. It's easy to trade with any moves coming from a downward (~315 degree) angle. Most common being Mario's and Corrin's up-special. The reason being is because of the trade. Your opponent will be sent downward because the game is trying to link them into your fastfall bair, but you're hit out of it the same frame the opponent is hit by it, so they just get sent downward. It's a very weak spike, essentially. To be specific, the angle would technically be ~280-290.
When in hitstun, the game disables the inadvertent change of momentum with momentum-changing moves during the frames of hitstun cancelling (the very end of knockback, think of how you can airdodge but not move in a direction while in combos, unless you're a character who's an exception, but that's getting too deep into it). This applies to aerials as well. This means you can use dair in a similar sense to how it's like in Melee, or PM, and not be committed to the fast-fall. This is common knowledge to most players, and it generally helps GW land. However, this can be combined with moves that have low knockback, like some jabs, and can get you out of some situations. Retro made an SB post on it awhile back, too lazy to link, sorry man. It's most important to understand the trouble of ground/air conversion in combos, and how good it is to easily be able to get out of them. Many people think this is frame 1, as GW technically lands on the first frame of dair being used, but this is not the case, as the move has early autocancel frames on 1-5, meaning the earliest is frame 6 (technically a mini-option select but I've never been able to do it). Any stupid strings just don't work in some scenarios. One off the top of my head is GW himself doing jab > grab. Pretty free, although it's better to just up-b away since it's faster. I find it's most applicable use being in rapid jabs. Again, I'm pretty sure Retro had a tiny list in his post awhile back with the ones it worked on, I'd recommend looking into it more if you're that interested.
Smash attack multiplier on full-charge (60 frames exactly on every one for every character) is 1.4x.
This basically just leaves out the decimal points, but it's still nice to know if you're a weirdo like me.
Forward-smash; 25.2%/19.6% (sweet/sour)
Up-smash; 22.4%
Down-smash; 21% exact/18.2% (sweet/sour)
(if this interests you then it would be cool to know also that for each extra frame of charge is 0.00666667x damage added (0.4 / 60)).
On the topic of Smash attacks, it's to be noted that from what I've read, there's no actual sourspot on GW's d-smash, instead the sourspot takes place if a character comes in contact with G&W's arms at any point, which is interesting. This is known as 'arm-collision'. This means it technically takes priority of the sweetspot, but it's so disjointed it doesn't even matter.
Chef's bacon angles aren't completely random, as the last 3 angles you've gotten have it's chances of appearing decrease until the move has been used 4 times (as there's 4 angles). I usually try to narrow down the angles (between stocks) to the most inward ones, as they take up a very defined amount of space, functioning more as lingering hitboxes. This also helps with eating jumps after panspikes.
Judgement 2's trip chance is 20%, meaning the chance of getting a tripping 2 is 1/14.
Judgement 7 locks at the lowest of %'s.
If Fire is edge-cancelled perfectly, Mr. Game & Watch will not regain his jump, even if he hasn't used it.
GnW suffers 40 frames of landing lag if he lands during up-b's animation. (If he's using Heavy Trampoline, this becomes 45 frames). He presumably suffers the same amount when landing during his special fall animation.
Oil Panic never dips below 18%, as it's set for this to be it's minimum (think of it how 60% is it's maximum)
Oil Panic's absorption has 50 frames of lag AFTER the absorbing animation has ended. The endlag is on a loop, so sometimes you'll get the same amount of end lag no matter what. For example, if you let go of the button on frame 18 of the loop, and on another controller you're doing the same and letting go on frame 35, you'll still get the same amount of endlag. It only varies when the button is held onto another loop interval.
Oil Panic's absorption box lasts during the entirety of the move, including during the "putting away animation".
Oil Panic's projectile multiplier is 2.8x.
Oil Panic's base damage is technically 1 (despite this, it's minimum of 18 will boost it up).
How units on Oil Panic are filled;
1 unit = 0.000001% - 9.999999% (below 10%)
2 units = 10% - 19.999999% (10%+, below 20%)
3 units = 20%+ (20% and above)
Custom Move Frame Data; (if something isn't listed, it's the same as the default version)
CHEF
C2 - (XXL Chef)
C3 - (Short-Order Chef)
JUDGE
C2 - (Extreme Judge) (approx ratio - 15-20% chance of 9)
[1 ; Base - 25 ; Growth - 55 ; Angle - 361 ; Damage - 5%]
[9 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 90 ; Angle - 361 ; Damage - 23%]
C3 - (Chain Judge)
[1 ; Active - 16-21 ; Base - 0 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 361 ; Damage - 1%]
[2 linking ; Active - 16-19 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[2 launch ; Active - 20-24 ; Base - 20 ; Growth - 20 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[3 linking ; Active - 16-19, 20-22 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[3 launch ; Active - 23-26 ; Base - 30 ; Growth - 30 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 3%]
[4 linking ; Active - 16-19, 20-22, 23-25 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[4 launch ; Active - 26-29 ; Base - 40 ; Growth - 40 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[5 linking ; Active - 16-19, 20-22, 23-25, 26-29 ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[5 launch ; Active - 30-33 ; Base - 50 ; Growth - 50 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 3%]
[6 linking ; idk how the active frames work on 6+ lol ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 ; Damage - 3%]
[6 launch ; Base - 30 ; Growth - 30 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[7 linking ; Base - 100 ; Growth - 0 ; Angle - 367 / 75 - Damage - 3%]
[7 launch ; Base - 40 ; Growth - 80 ; Angle - 45 ; Damage - 2%]
[8 linking/launch ; Base -
I stopped at this point because the code was starting to get really confusing (there was like 14 different sections that had chain judge code so I had no idea what was real or not)
FIRE
C2 - [Active - 8-12 ; FAF - 24] (Heavy Trampoline)
[Early Hit ; Active - 8 ; Base - 75 ; Growth - 55 ; Angle - 60 ; Damage - 16%]
[Late Hit ; Active - 9-12; Base - 65 ; Growth - 45 ; Angle - 75 ; Damage - 10%]
C3 - [Active - 16 ; FAF - 60] (Trampoline Launch)
[Sweetspot - Active - 16 ; Base - 90 ; Growth - 65 ; Angle - 90 ; Damage - 12%]
[Sourspot - Active - 16 ; Base - 85 ; Growth - 75 ; Angle - 75 ; Damage - 8%]
OIL PANIC
C2 - [Base - 30 ; Growth - 70 ; Angle - 45] (Efficient Panic)
C3 - [Base - 10 ; Growth - 60 ; Angle - 361 ; FAF - 108] (Panic Overload)
Oil Panic Frame Data (on the 3 frames of animation)
First Frame; 6 active (2-7)
Second frame; 7 active (8-15)
Third frame; 11 active (16-26)
"Put Away" Animation FAF - 14 frames
Intangibility Granted on-absorb - 24 frames
Whilst spotdodging and airdodging, G&W's hurtbox actually goes slightly into the z-axis despite being 2D (presumably by about 0.5 units, idk).
If G&W is caped during usmash whilst facing right, you can see that behind part of it without the screen in the helmet. It can't be seen normally due to the change in characters with symmetrical models not turning their body around, but rather being mirrored in Smash 4 (you can see this the most with someone like Mario).
Forward Smash uses the same turnaround 'animation' (just turns one 180 degrees) is the same as normal characters, so you can see his model in the 3rd dimension turning around (albeit still flat in appearance).
All RNG has some sort of pattern, this is true in Smash Bros as well. On bootup, RNG will have a preset pattern it goes by for whatever is required. This applies to characters, and Game & Watch. Basically, sometimes you get "unlucky" with certain numbers, and sometimes you get "lucky" with certain numbers. The appearance rate of one or two numbers will appear to greatly increase as one may appear greatly decrease. This is why sometimes people just get insane luck with 9s in a set, or you see a Peach pull a ton of Bob-ombs consecutively. Of course, the RNG pattern is still random, so there's no way to know what number you're going to be lucky or unlucky with, but I think it's something that people like Game & Watch mains should take into account.
had more stuff to add, am braindead right now, will edit the post when stuff comes up, or maybe i never will idfk.
Last edited:
