Is GaW only low tier because of his sheild?

[Zodiac]

GaW is a really good character, highly underestimated, I recently fought a very good game and watch and was stunned by the power and speed of GaW attacks. Maybe it was because of the animations but, come on. anyone else here know what im talkin about and, yes I played a little gamewatch for a while.

So does anyone think the only reason GaW is low tier is because so many things get through his sheild?

 

[Lixivium]

Having the worst roll and spotdodge in the game, dying at 60% doesn't help either.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

id say yes, sheild is probably the only things holding GW back.

 

[Galt]

The shield is the main concern, certainly, as anyone with regularly practice against a Falco will attest. But if you also practice regularly against a Captain Falcon, you'll see another major issue: lightness. He's very easy to kill. And while his recovery is good against people who aren't used to dealing with it, it also goes a set distance in only one direction, so good players are going to have no real trouble making recovering very difficult for you. Also, it's actually rather easy to shield-grab you, and then G&W tends to fall into lots of throw combos.

So basically what I'm getting at is, that most any character would be considered bad, who has no real hope of living past 90% (or 60, if you're fighting Falcon, especially on a smaller stage). Of course, G&W also has some very damaging tactics (u-tilt juggle on Falcon into d-air spike into the stage into more u-tilts is one of my favorites), but those are mostly on fastfallers, who also tend to be the high-tier characters, all of whom destroy G&W mercilessly.

I've had lots of experience with that. I'm a Sheik main, but G&W is my secondary, and I play him regularly against Fastliketree and Xelic and Chang-sta and Rayzorium here in Austin, and... it rarely goes well, we'll say.

 

[mood4food77]

g&w also has the overall higest air lag in the game, 2 of his moves cannot be l'cancelled, his the 6th lightest character in the game, he has the worst sheild, his roll isn't good, his start-up time is bad for most of his kill moves, he is easily sheild grabbed, and his recovery is predictable

but he's fast, great throw combos, a lot of KO power, great edgegaurder, and his best moves do not have a lot of start-up time or lag

 

[$PITE]

If he were any good defensively he'd be much higher. By good defensively, I mean a good shield/sidestep/roll/tech. But this is not the case.

 

[mood4food77]

not really, since most characters don't use the roll that often, only really ganon uses it, if his sheild was better he'd be higher, but not by much, if he had less lag, then maybe move up a lot

he wasn't supposed to be good like mewtwo was

 

[Winston]

He seriously isn't that laggy, or at least it's not a problem. Jeesh. It's all defensive/survival skills that he lacks, I agree. His offensive skills are at least middle tier. He doesn't even have insane horizontal recovery like other super light characters, so counterpicking DL64 isn't really an option.

 

[mood4food77]

he has more lag then bowser...yea, he's not so laggy afterall

 

[Citrussed]

Well, really, he has like hardly any start-up lag but alot of wind-down lag so it evens out.

 

[mood4food77]

he has quite a bit of start-up lag overall, one of the most in the game

 

[GimR]

He dies easily and he has a bad spot dodge, his shield really isn't as bad as you think. If you hold it lighter the more damage it starts taking in, than it can last pretty long with out you getting hit.

 

[mood4food77]

it's the 2nd worst or the worst sheild in the game, it's competing with DK for that spot...it's bad, even when lightshielding it barely covers his body

 

[KevinM]

G&W i just kinda stopped using the shield and just choose to try and wavedash away from things, or power shield which is way to hard for me with him. I think its that and lag that holds him back from being good, playing with friends that aren't that good where i don't need to shield as much he's amazing, so again defensively BLEH.

 

[TJK1997]

If he had better defence he might be higher

 

[Winston]

Worse lag than bowser? So can you explain why shuffled fairs to dtilts and l-cancelled dairs are so effective?

 

[KevinM]

Worse lag than bowser? So can you explain why shuffled fairs to dtilts and l-cancelled dairs are so effective?

QFT

His D-tilt is godly for combo starting as well...

Take it from someone who uses Bowser, we don't have anything to start off a combo like that

 

[alphameric]

g&w really isnt that laggy if you can l-cancel, wavedash/land consistently.
his moves stay out for AGES which is pretty handy (IE: f-smash w/out return frame), he has excellent knockback with his tips/opening frames, and hes got a hammer that doles out all sorts of glory.

i agree his lightness can be a bit annoying when it comes to chaingrabs, but almost anything else can be dbl sticked. as for his shield, you MUST light shield it. anything else and you are just asking to be pegged with something.

for recovery, a little tactic ive used on occasion is bucket when recovering. i know it sounds like a dumb move, but it slows you down and will throw off those shine spike and knees if you do it right.

oh and if i remember right, the u-air can be cancelled if you only do the first puff, gonna have to check that.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Its not just his shield but also every other aspect of his defense as well. He is light, with the worst shield in the game, a bad dodge, and a bad roll. He is a purely offensive character and that is why he is low tier. Of course thats why I play him, defense is no fun, I like to hit stuff. The only redeeming qualities his defense has is that his recovery is fairly good, and small size plus a good crouch means he can get under some attacks.

 

[Galt]

Actually, I wouldn't call G&W an offensive character at all. He's bad at being defensive, it's true, but he'll get destroyed because of his lag if he plays all-offense. The best strategy, in my experience, is to use a little offense to bait your opponent into approaching, but don't let him actually *hit* you. Sounds stupid, but it's true. Wait for the approach and use G&W's priority. Once you hit, you'd better be able to combo.

In short, retreating f-airs are your best friend, along with up-tilts to break aerial approaches (particularly against Falcon). I find that one of the best strategies for a false-offensive is to throw a few junk SHFFL'd f-airs, then act like you're really approaching, short-hop into a wavelanding backward, and wait for your opponent's grab/attack to whiff. Then punish. I'm fairly certain that wavelanding is essential for speeding up G&W effectively.

 

[tw0 side]

I have played with him a couple of times, but he just dies too fast. The shield is a big concern yes, but also his light weight, even though he has always been light in the game and watch games anyway.

 

[DireVulcan]

GaW is a really good character, highly underestimated, I recently fought a very good game and watch

Who is this very good GaW?

 

[JesiahTEG]

LOL idk Dire, he sounds pretty good. Maybe you could learn a thing or 2 about G&W from him.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Who is this very good GaW?

Probably you.

 

[smasher_25]

gaw dies so easily and really doesn't have that many good attacks. his airs are ok and smahses, but all his b's are terrible and his roll is slow.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

gaw dies so easily

True dat.

and really doesn't have that many good attacks.

Like fair, dair, dtilt, side B, fsmash...not to mention every one of his moves is disjointed except for usmash, and even then his head is invincible doing the move.

His aerials are AMAZING and he has good smashes.

Fixed. But seriously, his aerials and smashes are great moves when used properly...I'm just a bit too lazy to go into detail. >_>

but all his b's are terrible.

The only B move you should be using as an attack is side B, and that is to be used sparingly after a throw. Down B is extremely situational, sausages are quite useful for redirecting people's recovery and distracting opponents. Up B...never use it unless you're recovering. It's a great recovery move with lots if vertical distance and a great sweetspot. It you want to test your luck you can use up B when your opponent is extremely high to tap them to their death.

and his roll is slow.

True. It also has very little invincibility time. But you really shouldn't be rolling very much with G&W. A roll can be useful for getting out of someone's range at the last second (like Marth's fsmash or something)

 

[G&Wismyhomeboy]

In my opinion, GW is better for 1v1's than 4 player melees... I use him a lot for both but in big battles I try to avoid leaping through the fray too much. I just kinda (attempt to) shuffle aerials on people and dtilt until it's one on one.

And yeah, his rolls and shield are awful. But he's great for wavedashing, almost as good as Marth and Luigi as far as distance and ease of use.

What makes it worth it to play him is the occasional keyspike or 9-hammer.... it's just way too fun to pass up.

 

[Samochan]

With better defensive options, GW would be ten times better character than he is now. With all those disjointed hitboxes and ok wavedash, quick dtilt and you'd have yourself a marth like defensive beast who is hard to approach and can also combo you there and back. Then he'd be mid tier or something, his defensive options would more than compensate his lack of weight like you can do now with aerials, disjointed hitboxes, wd ect., only ten times more effectively.

 

[-Wolfy-]

Essentially I'm beating a dead horse with a stick, but G+W has a terrible roll, bad spot dodge, bad sheild, an up B that is tough to sweet spot without getting spiked, and that G+W can be killed pretty easily from a weak c-sticked smash atack at about 50-60 damage. There are however alot of good qualities in G+W that can partially redeem his flaws.

 

[itsneverfair]

What's light shield?

 

[-Wolfy-]

A light shield, if I understand what you're asking, is when you use the Z button to shield, or you barely depress the L or R buttons(push so that they don't click)

 

[itsneverfair]

what are advantages/disadvantages of using light shield over regular shield?

 

[omegablackmage]

wavelanding is good yes, essential imo

techrolling is terrible, hard to deal with chasers

recovery falters on higher levels of play

sheild can be dealt with

combos are sweet

 

[-Wolfy-]

The problem is there aren't many ways to get into the combos. It's almost always the same approach. I confess I use GAW and he's good if you can master these combos.

 

[alphameric]

The light lasts longer than a regular shield, and covers more of the characters body.
Only disadvantages are that it can be trickier to do, and you get pushed when hit.


G&W For teams can be pretty good if you have a teammate who knows how to play defensively.
For example, if you have a teammate who plays samus, you are in an awesome position.
Fully charged blasts into the bucket = WIN.
If you think you can pull it off, the kamikaze glitch is priceless to pull off in a game and if done nicely, can guarantee a win.

 

[-Wolfy-]

GAW and Samus is one of my favorite combinations ever.

 

[technomancer]

G+W has strong but laggy aerials, reasonable combos against fastfallers and heavies, but is far too light, and to my knowledge gets ***** pretty solid by Peach, as well as Link and a few other projectilites, along with getting entirely ***** by Sheik. I don't think he should be as low on the tier list as he is, but ... well if I had my way the high tier would be more crowded than the NY subway lol.

 

[alphameric]

ehh
I have absolutely no trouble with link. Peach is a bit harder.
I have the MOST trouble with the climbers and captain falcon.

 

[-Wolfy-]

I don't know so much about Peach or Link, but essentially the upper tiers own him. I'm not saying they can't be beaten by GAW, but I'm saying it requires an exceptional GAW player to bust up the tiers.

 

[Game 'n' Watch]

G&W is the best, so just learn how to play him correctly and u will see his godness!