Ivy's Downside?

[MomBomb]

I have been running Ivy for a month or so and even in 3.02 he still seems like he's OP, any match ups where he just gets completely overwhelmed in? all my friends use Marth, Falcon, Ike, peach, falco, sheik and gannondorf. i can wreck them really bad with ivy

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Don't use your friends as reference for how matchups go lol. Also I haven't heard a whole lot about Ivy's matchups, but I have heard that both Marth and Falcon can be bad because of their grab/throw game mixed with Ivy's weight. Might have been outdated since I saw this in the matchup thread or something though. I don't know about the others. :o

 

[MomBomb]

Generally i dont base it on friends for reference.
i saw a couple matches of Denti playing with Ivy but other than that i haven't really seen anyone else use him. thats why I'm wondering if his match ups are bad with top tier characters

 

[TreK]

As a rule of thumb, Ivy loses to the melee top tiers, plus Link. Which is unfortunate considering those characters may not be the higher tiered characters, but they are definitely the most popular ones.

She's solid at best, but nowhere near top tier at the moment. But worry not, we're all working very hard to make her broken again =3

 

[-Fatality-]

Ivysaur has unfavorable matchups against the Melee top tiers sans Jiggs, Falcon, Link, MK, maybe Mewtwo, maybe Sonic, and probably some others that don't come to mind atm. Ivysaur is still very good over all though.

 

[EmLeingod]

Match-Ups I struggle with at tournaments: Marth, Falco, Sheik, Lucas, and Ness.

 

[Phan7om]

Kirby can also be a threat if he plays right

 

[EmLeingod]

Kirby can also be a threat if he plays right

Never felt that I was in a bad match up with a Kirby, but I haven't played any really good Kirby mains yet.

 

[Zujx]

Ivy is just a wierd match up
Your friends are probaly just having a hard time adapting to it
If your saying he's op your friends probaly just thinking the same thing instead of learning how to exploit his weaknesses

I have a ivy around me (the only one really) that used to win a lot until we learned the match up now he's just average at best

 

[MomBomb]

yeah the more i played with him they eventually started finding a few openings but his B-air and D-tilt is just bonkers hahaha

 

[EmLeingod]

*ahem* HER tyvm

 

[Phan7om]

Never felt that I was in a bad match up with a Kirby, but I haven't played any really good Kirby mains yet.

Kirby is like a combo of Sheik, Puff, and a little bit of Falcon. Neutral game like sheik, aerial game similar to but worse than puff, and combo game similar to but a little worse than falcon. If people are saying that Ivy has trouble with those characters, Kirby should fall into the same boat imo. Plus, Kirby has the ability to use an insta solar beam if he wanted to, which with his combo game is easier to hit with than Ivy. Idk, with my knowledge of Kirby thats all ima say. I dont know how Ivy plays as well as I know kirby. I'll say its at least even.

 

[kevinw0w]

Never felt that I was in a bad match up with a Kirby, but I haven't played any really good Kirby mains yet.

The biggest thing Kirby has against Ivy is the chaingrab. This is something that was actually discovered by laser Kirby, from DFW. Starting at around 35%, Kirby can get guaranteed regrabs off of dthrow. Your best option if you get grabbed is to DI away towards the edge of the stage, but this can be dangerous too since Kirby can just fsmash and potentially kill you.

If the Kirby you're playing against doesn't know the chaingrab though, then I think the MU is very winnable. Instant solar beam really isn't a big deal - they can't reliably combo into it.

IMO, Ivy's worst matchups are Falco, Sheik, Link, TL, Mewtwo, Samus, Lucas, Pit, MK, and Marth.

 

[EmLeingod]

The biggest thing Kirby has against Ivy is the chaingrab. This is something that was actually discovered by laser Kirby, from DFW. Starting at around 35%, Kirby can get guaranteed regrabs off of dthrow. Your best option if you get grabbed is to DI away towards the edge of the stage, but this can be dangerous too since Kirby can just fsmash and potentially kill you.

If the Kirby you're playing against doesn't know the chaingrab though, then I think the MU is very winnable. Instant solar beam really isn't a big deal - they can't reliably combo into it.

IMO, Ivy's worst matchups are Falco, Sheik, Link, TL, Mewtwo, Samus, Lucas, Pit, MK, and Marth.

It's funny because I recently fought LK like last sunday, and he 3 stocked me both times with that chain grab. But denti beat him, so I don't think the match up is unwinnable, just can't get grabbed,, and my approach is sloppy and I didn't know about the chain grab %.

 

[kevinw0w]

It's funny because I recently fought LK like last sunday, and he 3 stocked me both times with that chain grab. But denti beat him, so I don't think the match up is unwinnable, just can't get grabbed,, and my approach is sloppy and I didn't know about the chain grab %.

Yeah he beat me pretty bad with it too haha. I think both his dthrow and his dash attack will be reworked a bit in the next update. Ivy can definitely wall Kirby out, but I still don't like the MU. It's almost like playing against brawl IC's, except Kirby has like 5 jumps, a better grab range (I think), better approach options, and the chaingrab itself is easier to execute. LK is a pretty good player, but Denti is top 5 in Texas, so I expected him to win. Just because he won, doesn't make the matchup any less unfavorable.

 

[Hevy_Santana]

Ivysaur vs captain falcon is completely dependent on the players like a good ivy player can zone out falcon and get good edge gaurds and combos in but its pretty much comes down to spacing and movement. but then captain falcon also has the advantage because ivy's weight is perfect for him to combo the heck out of her

 

[Nominate10]

Going a little more in-depth, Ivy has really good combo weight (as in: bad for us, good for them) which lets a few characters destroy us (such as falcon), to the point where just one combo can equal death.
Her recovery is subpar IMO. It's really glitchy, so sometimes it just fails when it should work, and it's really punishable by anyone who knows what they're doing. Unfortunately most people see the fact that they can't hog it and immediately dismiss it as unguardable and broken - when it really isn't. For example, mario can hold the ledge and drop-off bair as you snap up - or characters can simply force a ledge hop, which makes us vulnerable.

She has a great zoning game with leaf, fair, bair, dtilt, etc. however she can lose to characters with better zoning, such as Falco.

IMO, her worst matchups are (in no specific order): Marth, Shiek, Falco, C. Falcon, Lucas, and Kirby.

 

[EmLeingod]

Her recovery is subpar IMO.

It would be the best in the game if it were reliable. ):

 

[~Dad~]

It would be the best in the game if it were reliable. ):

In what situations does it just fail?

 

[EmLeingod]

In what situations does it just fail?

It seems largely random honestly. I can't figure it out. I've heard when things(Randall, Characters, etc.) get close to Ivy/The ledge she's trying to grapple, that can cause it fail, but I haven't really done any testing.

But there are multiple times when the attack up-b comes out, touches the ledge, but doesn't tether to it. It's just glitchy and weird.

 

[Nominate10]

In what situations does it just fail?

To my understanding...

the distance you can tether from depends on your angle relative to the ledge. It's kind of that 45ish degree angle, like the up-b and solarbeam travel at. The more lined up you are to that angle, the further away you can be to tether. But because of this, it doesn't always calculate it properly and sometimes just misses where it should obviously tether. Sometimes I watch the up-b hitbox travel right through the ledge and part of the stage as I fall to my death. It's really unreliable in that regard.

However, that's only one of the reasons I don't think her recovery is up to par. As I described in my previous post, it's really linear and predictable - there's no way to really mix it up. It's great in terms of distance (minus the glitchiness mentioned above) but it's easily punishable.

 

[Problem2]

Ivy's downside: Nobody loves you

 

[RuslinJimmies]

Ivy's main thing in my experience (barring link) is that once she is in her shield, we are ****ed. I played a couple of matches against mango, hax ( i convinced him to go fox for my practice), and some other spacies. Our out of shield sucks and they attack us for free. I love to footstool out of shield if they mess up pressure. If they play link, besides nairing the bommerang, and side b'ing the bombs back, its terrible as hell.

Ivy's biggest downside is being in shield imo

 

[TreK]

It sure is kind of funny that a supposedly "defensive" character has no shield, but hey, the PMBR works in mysterious ways !