Kirby needs his hammer replaced with something else

[verysleepywolf]

There's tons of other possibilities, Dedede already uses a hammer and it just feels wrong for Kirby to do so as well. Maybe it's just me but I could never find a use for it either. Remember his dash-a from Melee, the fire dash? Something like that seems like a more appropriate choice. Or maybe the beam whip attack. That would kick ass.

 

[Metalbro]

I actually agree. I never use hammer, it's way too risky. I'd use stone over it any day.

 

[Vinylic.]

I object.

The hammer has been useful due to successful predictions and it's use of pressure. It even makes Olimar's down-b a waste if used correctly.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Same here. I find a lot of use for the hammer, specifically aerial ones in brawl. Proper predictions always lead to a nice SMACK right in their face. The damage is good for the speed, and the knockback sets up for doing extra damage. It's very fun and fine the way it is.

Besides, it makes the whole rivalry between Kirby and Dedede more apparent. They eat a lot, they inhale, they float around, they smack people with hammers... It's cute to see them mimic each other like that, you know?

 

[FalKoopa]

I'd say keep his hammer. While I don't use Kirby much, his hammer is a very useful attack.

 

[ryuu seika]

Why not a best of both worlds? Fireball from Melee on the ground ground with the flaming spin from Kirby's Adventure Wii replacing it in the air. It would act almost identically to Brawl's aerial hammer, meaning you'd simply need to short hop to hammer a grounded foe.

 

[Vinylic.]

I still like the good ol' kickboxing kirby and his spin attack. If it were just a fireball just like melee's it'd almost be useless when shielded.

A combination of it is fine, but that's just visuals.

 

[PikaJew]

Wtf the hammer is incredible.
They made it much better in Brawl when used in the air.
Air hammer in Melee was pathetic.
It needs to return and stay the exact same, it's a great move, sure it's risky, but risky wins matches.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I like the use of the hammer, but I feel like it's redundant with Dedede's. Giving him a similarly-functioning move based on a different ability is my preference.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I think the hammer is a good punisher if it hits right. Almost like something you need to sweetspot when your opponent is very vulnerable or it isn't worth it. Also like the aerial version from Brawl.

Kirby's moves are analogous of his Copy Abilities. King Dedede has more than one use for his hammer.

 

[UberMadman]

Not only do I like the Hammer as a move, it also represents one of the most powerful weapons in the Kirby franchise, so I'm gonna have to disagree as well.

 

[Kamiko]

What?! There are people who don't like the hammer? It's almost as satisfying to land as the Warlock Punch, while being infinitely more likely to actually happen. I think it complements Kirby's quick moves nicely.

 

[Reldasekul]

I allways use the hammer coming out of an up grab in air, great way of putting damage on and getting the opponent out of the stage

 

[verysleepywolf]

Well, I'm not gonna argue with everyone... but I still like the beam whip better hehe.

 

[lint789]

No what he needs to do is upgrade the attack... Anyone familiar with Kirby games will know of the FLAMING HAMMER move right?

 

[TigerBizNiz]

I know this is repetitive, but I have to also disagree. I LOVE the hammer attack from Kirby. In fact, it's the only reason why I use Kirby! The change they made to it from the Melee version to the Brawl version fitted so perfectly when you use it in the air. I say: KEEP IT!

 

[Kamiko]

Well, I'm not gonna argue with everyone... but I still like the beam whip better hehe.

That WOULD be a pretty cool alternative, but that would feel more right as a nuetral B, and I don't see Inhale going anywhere.

 

[Z1GMA]

I say replace it.

Maybe with his Indiana Jones-whip:
Side B (Tap): Whip Strike. Can be angeled. Fast, good range, weak.
Side B (Hold): Whip Grab. Enables Throw Directions, but no pummeling.

 

[ryuu seika]

The change they made to it from the Melee version to the Brawl version fitted so perfectly when you use it in the air.

What, a generic mimicry of the ground motion better fits its aerial usage than a forward spinning motion, common to both Kirby and many JRPG swordsmen? Melee aerial hammer was a well designed, if not actually good, move and had some interesting grapple effects if spaced right. Brawl aerial hammer, on the other hand, is a boring waste of moveset space. It practically never connects prior to Kirby landing, making it rather redundant.

My thoughts are as follows:
1) Ditch the hammer. Totally change the grounded version and give the aerial a graphical change to fit in. Short hop if you want to hammer on the ground.
2) Keep the hammer but bring back Melee's aerial.
3) Keep the hammer but replace the aerial with a ground slam. It would work like Yoshi's down B but with the hitboxes not centred around Kirby's body.

 

[Kamiko]

Yeah, I actually liked the spinning aerial. I don't get why it was changed.

3) Keep the hammer but replace the aerial with a ground slam. It would work like Yoshi's down B but with the hitboxes not centred around Kirby's body.

This would be cool too. Maybe the spin could go into this if B was pressed again during the move.

 

[BaPr]

I say keep the hammer, but make him hit it downwards. If they do then I could find use of this

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Ultra-Giant Swing was sorta not-very-effective move in Melee (Aerial Hammer Spin), so Brawl's attack was a nice change. While sometimes I wish they'd bring back Burning (with more power to it instead of being the weak attack that it was in Melee), Brawl's Aerial Hammer is pretty good already.


They could bring back Ultra-Giant Swing though if done properly right and perhaps given more kill-power (think Melee SD Remix)

 

[Wumbo105]

I love it when people say they want Kirby's fireball dash attack back... just shows they haven't been playing Kirby for very long. Not to mention that his current head spin dash attack is a godsend.
As for the hammer debate, as much as I love it, I wouldn't mind a change of some sort. I'm sure Sakurai wouldn't disappoint with his creativity.

 

[-TAG-]

I'm in favor of replacing the hammer. I mean Kirby has dozens of abilities they could replace the hammer with, they could go with the throwing knives from the Ninja ability, Leaf Attack from the Leaf ability, or the Jet Dash from the Jet ability. I think Kirby needs to be like Mega Man and implement some of those abilities into his standard attacks.

 

[ryuu seika]

I love it when people say they want Kirby's fireball dash attack back... just shows they haven't been playing Kirby for very long. Not to mention that his current head spin dash attack is a godsend.

I've been playing Kirby plenty long, I just play a very non-standard style of Kirby in which the ability to trade a blow with a swordsman is a plus and getting locked into a relatively long lasting move with no controllability is not.
Don't get me wrong, I can see why you like the Breakdash but I far prefer the ability to cancel my moves and the upsides of having a transient hitbox.

 

[Triple R]

Fireball dash is bad. There is no debate.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm not sure if I want this move to be replaced or not. But I do agree with one thing. Kirby should implement some more of his copy abilities from his games. If it works for Megaman using the Robot Master weapons in his moveset. Then it should work for Kirby too. He already uses stuff like Hammer, Fighter,Cutter and(I think)Yo-yo. So I say he only needs a few more to feel more that he does in his own series. I imagine some of the common power-ups could be used. Like Fire, Ice, Tornado, Plasma so on and so forth.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

There aren't many animations in Kirby's moveset not seen in his own games in some form at this point, but I agree that it'd be great for him to make use of some more of his powers. It's not too likely, but I'd love to see the Stone Fist from Return to Dreamland used as an Up Smash.

Seen at about 2:15 in this video.

 

[Kamiko]

I love it when people say they want Kirby's fireball dash attack back... just shows they haven't been playing Kirby for very long.

Do you mean in Smash Bros? I don't main him, but have been using him since the N64. Otherwise, I've been playing since Dreamland.

Fireball dash is bad. There is no debate.

This new game isn't Melee. It could easily be made better than it was then.

But this thread is about the hammer. Maybe we should take this elsewhere.

 

[ryuu seika]

Stone Fist is clearly an offshoot of Stone. Should it be added to his moveset, it should punch downward and replace Stone when Kirby is grounded, splitting the two Stone Kirby powers like in the above video.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Man, the hammer is one of Kirby's best KO moves.You probably just shouldn't commit to using it on the ground unless you're sure it will hit. It's fantastic in the air (at least in Brawl).

 

[t!MmY]

I'd like to clear some things up:

Melee Hammer was awful.
On the ground, it was slow and wouldn't KO even at high percentages unless you hit with the itsy-bitsy sweetspot. The sourspot had so little knockback that it wouldn't even send Jigglypuff very far even at really high percents. The sweetspot was satisfying to land, but generally not worth the risk of using the Hammer.

In the air, there were next to no uses for the thing. If you hit an opponent with it Kirby would lag himself on longer than the opponent which means you get punished for hitting with it. If you tried to use it as a Recovery, you dropped down farther than if you just drifted back to the stage.

Brawl Hammer is mediocre.
On the ground, it can actually KO - the ironic side of things is that Kirby's F-smash is about as powerful and much easier to hit with. Even if you have an opponent at your mercy (broken shield) a fully-charged F-smash has greater knockback than the Hammer. The range on the Hammer is tiny, and the HitBox only stays out for a mere 2-frames.

In the air is where the Hammer becomes more worthwhile. It's a strong attack that can finish off an opponent that you have off-stage. Unfortunately the HitBox still only stays out for 2-frames (for each swing), and the hitbox is still fairly small. Also, while the damage is awesome (17% and 15%) the knockback is rather lackluster (I hit Wario up to 150% with the 1st swing of the aerial Hammer on Smashville and he didn't get KO'd). The horizontal momentum gained from using the aerial Hammer is quite useful when trying to recover - it's certainly a great deal better than the Melee Hammer for recovery.

All uses of the Hammer in Brawl give Kirby "Delayed Lag" which really puts a damper on its use. :\

 

[ryuu seika]

A well aimed Melee aerial hammer could hit opponents behind it in such a way that they were dragged forward. Assuming this could be perfected and the setup was ideal, it would allow the player to drag opponents (maybe even shielding ones) into a perfect position for Kirby to Bair them under the stage.

In practice, the situation just never comes up though.

 

[Vinylic.]

I thought this discussion has been over with.

 

[Triple R]

A well aimed Melee aerial hammer could hit opponents behind it in such a way that they were dragged forward. Assuming this could be perfected and the setup was ideal, it would allow the player to drag opponents (maybe even shielding ones) into a perfect position for Kirby to Bair them under the stage.

In practice, the situation just never comes up though.

This could never happen. I'm assuming you mean you would do this while going offstage and you pull them off.

This really can't work for 3 reasons. The aerial hammer has very little forward momentum. Good luck pulling them off when you are hardly moving forward yourself. 2nd you wouldn't be able to bair stage spike someone even if you pulled them off. There is so little hit stun on hammer that the opponent could jump back to the stage before you finish your hammer cool down animation. 3rd aerial hammer doesn't really drag people as much as you imply. Not much pulling here.

Just got out of bed and I couldn't handle seeing such an impossible and insane idea.

 

[extremechiton]

i rather like brawls hammer. the melee one sucked.

i rarely ever use the grounded version cuz of its short range, but in the air, i can dominate with it.
i am a kirby main, so i know when to use the hammer. i dont play competitively so nearly all my hammer options are valid. off stage, i use it apply pressure from recovering, i can combo it out of a grab, and the second swing of the hammer has horizontal knockback so it is very usefull for chasing people off the edge.

but i would like to see some change in ssb4. like in kirby's return to dreamland, he has a flaming hammer that swings up. i would like that to be his new grounded hammer that could set up combos by hitting opponents near vertically and is a potentil ko move. i would also like a dash hammer attack like the one he has in kirby's return to dreamland, or a smash hammer attack like samus has a smash missle. the regular grouned hammer could be copied over from brawl, while the smash hammer could be the flaming hammer with multiple hitboxes behind him like in kirby's return to dreamland, than swinging forward and upward with a single hitbox.

as for the dash attack, the brawl version was ok, it was useful for shield pressure sometimes, and had decent knockback. however, if they change it (which i think they wont cuz in the e3 video we saw kirby doing the head spin attack) i would like it to be the surf from kirby's return to dreamland.

 

[ryuu seika]

This really can't work for 3 reasons. The aerial hammer has very little forward momentum. Good luck pulling them off when you are hardly moving forward yourself. 2nd you wouldn't be able to bair stage spike someone even if you pulled them off. There is so little hit stun on hammer that the opponent could jump back to the stage before you finish your hammer cool down animation. 3rd aerial hammer doesn't really drag people as much as you imply. Not much pulling here.
Just got out of bed and I couldn't handle seeing such an impossible and insane idea.

1) Dash to jump to hammer provides enough forward momentum for this purpose.
2) Not sure on this one, you may well be right.
3) The opponent has to be backed up against the edge but it can happen.

It is by no means plausible but, if your second point is less extreme than you think, it will be possible since that is all that prevents it.
I had to post it because of claims that the melee hammer couldn't do anything.

 

[Snailtopus]

I like Kirby's brawl hammer; I am by no means a Kirby main, but it is definitely satisfying when Hammer connects, though I never use it on the ground. Also, I dont think Kirby needs to have his moveset more consistent with his powers from his games, because I think his ability to inhale and copy an opponent's neutral special makes up for the included moves that are not inspired by previous Kirby games

 

[t!MmY]

I had to post it because of claims that the melee hammer couldn't do anything.

Please quote or link to where someone claimed the Melee version of Hammer "couldn't do anything". I couldn't find it.

RRR summed it up pretty well. The off-stage Hammer is one of the least effective attempts at aggressive gimping you could do with Kirby for how weak and unreliable its results would return. I'm not going to say it wouldn't be fun to try.

BTW, the aerial Hammer in Melee modifies Kirby's horizontal momentum to the point where you lose aerial speed simply by using it.

I am by no means a Kirby main, but...I dont think Kirby needs to have his moveset more consistent with his powers from his games

Why you no love Kirby?

 

[Snailtopus]

Why you no love Kirby?

I just don't play him lol. He's not for everyone dude