Lock and Load! Yoshi's Stage Discussion - Discussing Lylat Cruise

[Sinister Slush]

Starter Stages
-Battlefield
-Final Destination
-Smashville
Discussing - Lylat Cruise
Slightly Finished -Yoshi's Island

CounterPick Stages
-Castle Siege
-Halberd
-Pokémon Stadium 1
-Brinstar
-Delfino Plaza
-Frigate Orpheon
-Pictochat
-Pokémon Stadium 2
-Rainbow Cruise

Yoshi's Island

Advantages for Yoshi On this Stage

Disadvantages for Yoshi On this Stage

Summary

Spoiler

From what i've seen the platform has 9 different positions (correct me if im wrong)

1. Flat - no tilt
2. Slight tilt right - its just barely tilting with the right side facing down (almost unnoticeable)
3. Short tilt right - its tilting a bit more noticeably with the right side facing down
4. Mid tilt right - its tilting somewhere between a short and a full tilt with the right side facing down
5. Full tilt right - its tilting all the way with the right side down
6. Slight tilt left - its just barely tilting with the left side facing down (again hard to notice)
7. Short tilt left - its tilting a bit more noticeably with the left side facing down
8. Mid tilt left - its tilting somewhere between a short and a full tilt with the right side facing down
9. Full tilt left - its tilting all the way with the left side down


Now when it comes to egging you want to be on the side opposite of where its tilting
Ex: Full tilt left, you want to be on the Right side.

If you do that the plat wont do anything to your eggs.


Now for the chain grab. The platform does mess with it, but its character tilt and spacing dependent. Lord its weird with 9 different tilts. I imagine a little sweet spot. The sweet spot moves slightly for every tilt but its in the same general area every time. If when you grab them while Yoshi's nose is in that sweet spot the plat wont mess with your regrab.

The paragraph's below are just for off-stage and aerial antics.

In my experience with the slope tricks, the Waveland onto the stage as not proved as useful as people think it is; it merely is just a way to mix up your recovery, as well as get that dash grab on them when they have control of the middle.

The instant double jump and the edge-guarding potential with the slope tricks are what best support us on the outer portions of the stage. The instant double jump provides follow-ups for TRUE combos, kill set-ups, and sometimes another useful way to recover. The edge-guarding potential actually can intimidate smarter opponents just because we can glide off stage with any move of our choice. The best part about using the slope tricks for means of edge-guarding is that it gives us the one thing that we didn't have to be able to universally edge-guard in the first place: a means of returning to the ledge sooner. Due to our double jump's awkward properties, we're not able to cover as many options in a short enough time. Abusing the slope as if its our "Melee-ledge" will assist us in swatting the opponent away and quickly returning to the slope to do it again.

Overall
-Yoshi Bomb Ledges
-Double Jump Ledges and use Any Smash/Tilt while getting Heavy Armor
-Helps DR a bit on Ledges and Middle of Stage by Platform wavelanding
-Ghost Platform helps Yoshi against Some characters
-Fly guys mess with Eggs and sometimes help, but also mess with other Projectiles
-Messes with Chaingrab due to middle platform
-Platform blocks most of Yoshi's Eggs, But throws opponents off guard if you throw eggs from opposite side of where the Platform is facing

Lylat Cruise​

Advantages for Yoshi On this Stage

Disadvantages for Yoshi On this Stage

Summary

Overall

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi bomb shenanigans are cool and the main platforms shape sometimes helps us, but the shape all messes with our stuff (mainly the CG) and the middle platform is more of a pain then a help. I'd say it's not terrible for us, but for the most part, I'd rather go somewhere else.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Reserved for Stage Discussion

 

[indigestible_wad]

I'm trying to think of a way that the tilted spots help us in any way besides ground pound, but I can't think of anything. Maybe on the edge if we want to grab someone below us, which is fairly situational and only works if they're within ledgegrab range. A forward smash would probably go just as far.

I don't mind the angled spots, they don't really help me or hurt me at all. What really throws me off is the center platform, because it acts like a wall for all my projectiles, or at least it does for me. My playstyle is fairly campy and if the platform is facing the wrong direction it completely screws me up. It definitely is a wall when its tilted toward you half the time, although when it's facing the other direction it seems like it can be helpful for eggs, but I don't notice beacuse I seem to only notice the negative. Also it tends to make other characters projectiles better because theirs are usually a straight horizontal with no vertical movement. It's hard to get to them underneath or overhead because you're limited to one of two paths if you approach from the opposite side. But this really applies to other campers mostly.

The ghost helps us in a similar way to peach. We can stall in the air with eggs if we can't make it to the ledge, and wait for the ghost to pop up. Praxis says that it works for him about once every three attempts for peach, so I'd guess it would be a similar fraction for us.

 

[Sunnysunny]

The tilting platform can be a nuisance if your trying to egg camp, and I really feel the stage is too small too manuever around properly to get some breathing room.

 

[ngfc_0]

Fly guys mess with eggs i guess.

Definetly do not take here Sonic, and i personaly don't like bowser, zss and Ike here.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I've never had shy guys stop my eggs, they're always either too high up of hovering over the edge.

 

[ngfc_0]

I don't realy know how to play the game (lolwut?) but if the oponent is in the air he can put himself behind the flyguys so we wont egg them (probably we are doing wrong if we are throwing eggs while they are falling to the stage??).

 

[Poltergust]

...I can't really understand you. Are you saying it is a bad idea to egg people as they are falling to the stage? If anything, it's the perfect place to tack on damage since they can't avoid it.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I think hes saying "The enemy can use shyguys as meatshields when trying to recover to block our eggs"

Anywho that has never happened to me before. The shyguys are rarely a problem. There only purpose is to get smacked after winning a stock, sorta like the balloon in smashville.

 

[Z'zgashi]

You can tech shy guys if you're hella good :o

This guy in Utah named DZLE figured it out about a year ago. It's called the SGC (Shy Guy Cancel)

 

[Poltergust]

You can tech shy guys if you're hella good :o

This guy in Utah named DZLE figured it out about a year ago. It's called the SGC (Shy Guy Cancel)

Really? I want vids now.

Now, I say!

 

[Z'zgashi]

I'll ask DZLE right now

 

[Sinister Slush]

Fly guys used as meatsheild is very rare since they're usually near the ledge or too high. Though sometimes a Fly Guy getting in the way of an egg sorta helps since the explosion from the egg sometimes surprises your oppenent (Say he's running to you, you throw an egg a bit too high and he runs under it and hits you. Now if the Fly guy was to come in while he tries to go under the egg, The Fly guy gets hit and the explosion cancels out the opponent from running to you.

A bit more stage discussion on how this stage benefits Yoshi then moving on to which characters are bad/good on this stage. Only have three down.

 

[Sharky]

Another slope shenanigan: An alternate DR style waveland from the ledge. Start with the usual ledgehop and rather than DJ aeiral, just DJ. You have more leeway, and you can get more DJ armor this way as well.

You can also platform cancel when the platform is tilting.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Really? I want vids now.

Now, I say!

fuuuu- i cant find it... ;__;

I've never had shy guys stop my eggs, they're always either too high up of hovering over the edge.

Fly guys used as meatsheild is very rare since they're usually near the ledge or too high. Though sometimes a Fly Guy getting in the way of an egg sorta helps since the explosion from the egg sometimes surprises your oppenent (Say he's running to you, you throw an egg a bit too high and he runs under it and hits you. Now if the Fly guy was to come in while he tries to go under the egg, The Fly guy gets hit and the explosion cancels out the opponent from running to you.

A bit more stage discussion on how this stage benefits Yoshi then moving on to which characters are bad/good on this stage. Only have three down.

Hmm... do i sense a similarity here?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Nope, You like Zuruzukin and I like Shanderaa. Though two minds thinking alike I believe.
ALSO... What does DJ mean (Still lernin dose Yoshi terms), I know about the Armor (or Super Armor) but just DJ confuses me...

 

[Sharky]

double jump, lol

 

[Sinister Slush]

double jump, lol

Fuu... should've known. I knew the first was Double but the J is what got me. Will add that to the Overall. Still need to talk about which characters we could/Shouldn't take to this stage.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nope, You like Zuruzukin and I like Shanderaa. Though two minds thinking alike I believe.
ALSO... What does DJ mean (Still lernin dose Yoshi terms), I know about the Armor (or Super Armor) but just DJ confuses me...

I love shandera, I use him in my team. My IG team is Jaroda, Zuruzukin, Abagoora, Denchura, Moguryuu, and Shandera. It's a legit team.

 

[Sharky]

do not take sonic or donkey kong here, for the love of all that is good do not take them here, especially DK. They each have gimmicks that give one of their moves invincibility off the slopes. I also would not take olimar here, as he is very good at holding the area under the platform. I'm sure there's more but I'm sleepy =)

 

[Sinister Slush]

Olimar and DK I knew but needed more specifics. Will add them to the list. Continue fellow Yoshi's.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Shandera with shadow tag is so broken. xD
I didn't like Zuruzukin before, but Z's avatar and sig made me change my mind. <3

Oh also, the platform stops oli from camping you too hard....well then again you can't really throw eggs at him either because of the platform....
I hate this nuetral so much. ._. it just seems like it handicaps everyone.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Oh also, the platform stops oli from camping you too hard....well then again you can't really throw eggs at him either because of the platform....
I hate this nuetral so much. ._. it just seems like it handicaps everyone.

Which's why we're discussing it. So.. snake seems to be good with this stage since Utilt can get us while under platform. And Grenades be good with the slopes on the stage, make sure you try and memorzie where the Grenade'll go when he throws it down on one of those slopes.

 

[SOVAman]

nice bump

 

[hadesblade]

I'd take snake here 900 times before considering taking peach, falco, or samus...

 

[Sinister Slush]

Only some Yoshi's are helping out with this. Probably need some knowledge from other mains as well rather then just Yoshi's.

 

[Delta-cod]

I really do recommend we focus on one (or a small group of) character(s) at a time, per stage.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Well I'd gladly like to know what characters Yoshi's want to Discuss about on YI rather then randomly throwing names out there.
But that's the thing, Noone is throwing character names to be discussed on.
If I threw some out it'd probably sit here for a few hours until someone posts about 2 paragraph post about the character and then stop discussing.

 

[Delta-cod]

Rename the title for the character.

If discussion stops, it's because nobody has anything else to say or because nobody disagrees with what's been said. That means you're done and you can move on to someone else.

Let's start out:

Meta Knight​

I personally wouldn't take him here. The platform and ground messes with our CGs, which messes with damage output, moveset refreshing, and the always important mental break.

However, the overhanging platform DOES limit his approach options somewhat. Which makes me wonder whether or not the MK would strike this stage.

For a standard 5 stage starter list, would it be safe to strike BF and SV, counting on the MK to strike YI and FD? Can we fight him well enough here that it's worth the risk?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

From what i've seen the platform has 9 different positions (correct me if im wrong)

1. Flat - no tilt
2. Slight tilt right - its just barely tilting with the right side facing down (almost unnoticeable)
3. Short tilt right - its tilting a bit more noticeably with the right side facing down
4. Mid tilt right - its tilting somewhere between a short and a full tilt with the right side facing down
5. Full tilt right - its tilting all the way with the right side down
6. Slight tilt left - its just barely tilting with the left side facing down (again hard to notice)
7. Short tilt left - its tilting a bit more noticeably with the left side facing down
8. Mid tilt left - its tilting somewhere between a short and a full tilt with the right side facing down
9. Full tilt left - its tilting all the way with the left side down


Now when it comes to egging you want to be on the side opposite of where its tilting
Ex: Full tilt left, you want to be on the Right side.

If you do that the plat wont do anything to your eggs.


Now for the chain grab. The platform does mess with it, but its character tilt and spacing dependent. Lord its weird with 9 different tilts. I imagine a little sweet spot. The sweet spot moves slightly for every tilt but its in the same general area every time. If when you grab them while Yoshi's nose is in that sweet spot the plat wont mess with your regrab.

I'll use MK as an example since we're talking about him. His sweet spot is near the edge of the tilt. If you grab them and Yoshi's nose is under the platform but his body is near the edge of the tilt you should get the regrab for just about everything except full tilt. You're gonna have to go to training for a bit to see what i mean here.


And for the ledges they mess it up for MK but he was the only one i tested so it might not matter at all for some. For MK just end it off with a dash attack. Should hit.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Seems we have enough info on Meta Knight already.
Lets move on to a character who's airgame is better then ours WARIO

 

[Delta-cod]

We can camp under the platform decently enough, but I feel like Wario can use the platform better than us. It also ruins our grab release shenanigans, as do the slants at the edges.

I think I remember hearing Warios say that they wouldn't want to go here against us, but it might have been a different character. Not really too sure.

Either way, I'd rather take SV/Lylat.

 

[Poltergust]

Really? I think this is Yoshi's best neutral to play against Wario. I think the platform really messes with his air-game, and of course there are our down-B shenanigans.

Also, the infinite becomes even easier if you are facing upwards (maybe even downwards, too) on a slope because you don't need to time the re-grab anymore; just mash A.

 

[Sharky]

We can camp under the platform decently enough, but I feel like Wario can use the platform better than us. It also ruins our grab release shenanigans, as do the slants at the edges.

I think I remember hearing Warios say that they wouldn't want to go here against us, but it might have been a different character. Not really too sure.

Either way, I'd rather take SV/Lylat.

people probably said that after watching fingerpass play phantom_x here. I think we do pretty well. I think the slope actually works pretty well for GR, because it angles our grab box up.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Of all CP's, this is probably my least favorite to fight Wario at... after BF that is.

 

[~Firefly~]

Wario on PS1 is worse IMO. Stage transformations mess with grab releases, and the stall-fests that often take place on rock/fire transformations charge his wafts for free.

 

[Sinister Slush]

In my opinion YI screws up Yoshi AND Wario. And after thinking about this for awhile I'd lean over that YI is "Barely" a bad Neutral for Wario.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lylat, SV, and FD are all better neutrals IMO, so we should get whichever of those he doesn't strike (I get rid of BF then YI, but if for some reason he striked one of those already I'd strike Lylat. Then SV if he strikes both.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Bump.

And @ my post above, I'd actually say my opinions changed to Yoshi's > Lylat.

In fact, I prefer this order most of the time:
SV
FD/YI/BF (Depending on the character I'm against)
LC