Luigi Guide Help

[SmashRayner]

I want to contribute something to the smash community (especially pm/melee)
I sorta figured a guide to Luigi would be the best way to do this. However, I have one problem: I don't know a lot of things about Luigi such as:
Match ups
Preferred control schemes(?)
Best/Worst stages
Luigi tech, combos, hitboxes
Players to watch
etc.
I would really appreciate any help from experienced players, all over the board
Anyone who helps will be credited as I feel this would be more of a community guide
If you have ANY information to put regarding Luigi, please put it here.
I wanna help myself AND the community so I thought this would be the best way.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Luigi's hitbox information is mostly the same as Melee.
Press back on ledge → double-jump back and Slimeball at stage → sweetspot Missile to farm misfires. Can replace Slimeball with aerials and use while edgeguarding.
Turnaround Slimeball → recover with safety of Bair.
Airdodge. It's great.
Destroy rollers with misfire.
Dthrow is king against anyone besides spacies. Then it's Uthrow.
Nair is also king against anyone besides floaties. Then it's Uair.

So uair allows Luigi to reach higher platforms than he normally can, and it can even be autocancelled with proper timing.
This works from a shorthop to FoD and YI's platforms at certain heights and Lylat's side platforms if you jump from the center. From a full jump he can reach the top platforms of WarioWare. But the most practical usage I've found is ledge-drop double-jumping to the right platform on Skyworld.

As soon as an opponent is too far away while I'm too high to chase during or after a combo, I'll start spamming Fireballs to keep control over them. If they avoid it, they'll be farther from center stage, and if they get hit, I've more time to get at them.

I'm partial to WarioWare, personally. Side blastzones aren't too far out, and the high platforms can let you go farther out than usual. They also help with Luigi's primarily vertical combos (I've gotten quite a few quad nairs for a kill off the top), extra opportunities to fair/dair techrolls into death, give you somewhere to go when stuck in the air, are all the more places to edgecancel GR, and can't be used to get around fireballs as well as other platforms can.

I wouldn't say small size is always the best. Luigi's ground speed can be quite advantageous on big stages, and really lets his tech-chasing shine. On the other hand, Luigi is apt to slide off of small stages, putting him in a bad position while he's already on the defensive.
In particular, I favor FD in several matchups, including Marth, G&W, and Kirby. Characters that can't necessarily keep up, who lack projectiles that are longer/faster than fireballs, who can better take advantage of platforms, and who can control more space than the Weeg.
Also, I'd like to mention Skyworld, which I like for some matchups. Luigi's high jump and great wavedash allow him to take advantage of the high, wide upper platform. Along with Smashville, its overhanging side platforms are great fair bait and let him go farther out than usual. However, Luigi can't really take maximum advantage of the side platforms for recovery, so strike it against characters who can.

I have taken to referring to any sweet combos I pull off as "Bunga Bunga Parties."

Releasing the ledge → double jump → waveland, called "ledgedash," allows for a longer slide and is faster, which is important since you're trying to preserve that invincibility. I definitely suggest you practice it. Jumping from the ledge and wavelanding as soon as possible, called "ledgejump waveland," is often good enough though, but if you're over 100% (making ledgejump even slower and an SD less destructive) you might as well try to ledgedash.
You can regrab much faster with Up-B than with your double-jump. Don't forget that Luigi can grab the ledge from fairly far away, so feel safe to drift quite a bit back; that should avoid Marth's sword, or at least throw off his tipper spacing.

Ledgejump actually is a real option in this game. I still wouldn't suggest it against sword characters nor on stages without nearby platforms to waveland to, but it does give you more height than ledgehop without risking your double jump, and you can actually act out of it now.

Here's a secret:

Spoiler: Secret

D-angled f-tilt has an extra 10 shield damage.

Things to practice, generally in order of importance
The basics:

Ledgedash
Smooth, controlled, yet seemingly erratic movement through dash dances and wavedashes
Sweetspotting and ledge-regrab techs
OoS stuff (Usmash, Up-B, WD, shield drop)

Luigi-specific:

Rising tornado
Chaingrabs and grab followups for different fall-classes
Misfire farming
Ledgehop aerial / fireball waveland / regrab
Wavedash forward → turnaround
RAR wavedash
Wavedash back → Ftilt without stopping

Luigi kata:

Jab → grab / dash grab / jump-cancel grab / Ftilt / Dtilt / Up-B
WD back → Utilt / Usmash / Fireball
WD forward → jab / grab / Ftilt / Dsmash / Up-B
Fireball waveland → grab
Footstool → Down-B
Fair → Dtilt (best to use against enemies so you know the right timing with hitstun)
Make your own!

This should be enough to keep you busy.
Double aerials and aerial → waveland are more important for Luigi than shffl.

For Up-B OoS without tap-jump, I just press up on the C-stick, which conveniently puts my thumb right over B.

Personally, I have D-pad-Up set to jump, so I don't have to move my thumb so quickly, I just use the other one. It also allows Usmash OoS with tap-jump disabled.

When you start a string of Uairs on somebody and they start DI'ing away, the best option to keep them in your combo depends on the situation, and I'm assuming you've used you second jump. If you have a misfire and can kill, go for that. If they're too far vertically rather than horizontally - and you know you can mash it - then follow with Cyclone, ideally killing with its last hit or staying close enough below them for a final blow before hitstun ends (I've personally never even tried this, though, so second opinions from those who have are needed). If you're near a floor, or if it's a character like Zelda/Peach/Samus (or like Falcon if he's low-percent and above-stage), go ahead and (wave)land to continue with Usmash, Nair, or Uair. If none of that, just Fair.
It's better to recognize that they're escaping before using your second jump, though, so you can use that to put yourself into position for whatever followup you'd prefer (including soft Nair so they can't get as far, footstool→Cyclone, or Up-B).

I did the thing. Should be more convenient than doing it manually. It was a lot of work simply because my PSA didn't read BKB correctly.

Some notes:
Might be a percent off here-and-there due to rounding, but looks good to me.
While staling doesn't affect knockback (hence CC), it does affect damage, and knockback is based on damage after the hit. This table lists damages before the hit, and assumes freshness.
361° refers to the Sakurai angle, for those unfamiliar.
Bowser might be wrong due to magic.
Jabs 1&2 and dtilt discluded since they have fixed knockback.
Utilt discluded since it has like a billion different hitboxes.
Fireball discluded because I don't know how to get that.
Missile and Up-B discluded because don't do that unless it will kill. They'd shield Missile, anyway.
All of the hitboxes on prone- and supine-getup-attacks are the same, except one on each hit of prone that has fixed knockback. Dunno if that's an oversight.
Likewise, trip-getup-attack is identical except does 1 less damage. Dunno if that's standard.
The inner hit of <100% ledge-attack actually only deals 6 damage.
It might be useful to highlight which attacks (Usmash mostly) are liable to whiff whose crouches.
Feel welcome to improve formatting. I think there's a way to have certain rows/columns always-visible.

I'd actually put Usmash above Up-B or aerials OoS. In my experience (mostly playing G&W, Kirby, Ganondorf, Lucas, Falcon), I get crossed-up a lot, and at low percents Usmash is basically a higher-damage Dthrow. Also, Luigi's head is invincible for it, so it's got good priority.
I feel really unsafe using aerials OoS, and in particular would rather WD Usmash than Bair.
WD OoS shouldn't be understated. Shield grabs are really good at a certain level, where they become a bad habit that must be broken to progress. Luigi's grease may slide him away a lot, too far for a grab, but he's usually within easy range for a WD U/Dsmash (or grab if you're real sure), which I think is by far his most used option.
Looking at Ike's dash attack in particular, assuming he hits you for the least disadvantage, he'd be on frame 22 and you'll have 6 frames of shieldstun, which leaves you 17 before he can act. WD takes 4 for jumpsquat and 10 for landing, leaving 3 frames to get a hitbox out before he can shield, 6 before he can jab. Luig's Jab is out frame 2, U/Ftilt frame 4 (don't forget down-angled ftilt does 10 extra shield damage), Dsmash/Dtilt/Up-B frame 5, and grab frame 7. A similar option is to jump then Cylcone, which takes 10 frames total.
Shield slides are definitely very important against sword characters, though. That and "slidestepping" (a sliding sidestep) are the best bets for getting in on them. I'd prefer to not play footsies for long against Ike, as he'll get comfortable enough to QD, so I'd rather initiate things with slidesteps until he starts getting suspicious, then start throwing in Dsmashes or something.

(continued from http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-approach-options.364482/#post-17516225)

I wouldn't suggest approaching with aerials. Bair can be used to stuff approaches from unarmed opponents, but you want to use it as you leave the ground. If it hits a shield, you generally have three options:
If you predict a shield grab, you can go for a second Bair or a Cyclone.
If you predict more shield, you can WD backwards and grab/Dtilt.
If no prediction, you should WD forward, either to reset neutral or come back and punish their response.

Luigi isn't much of a shield pressure character; instead, he should be the one taking initiative when the enemy's in shield, either by seizing stage control, grabbing, or Dtilt.
Many of his attacks have extra shield damage, though (note that this doesn't affect shieldstun). Double fair → Dtilt is almost all a shield's health.

I have a mental threshold of when to bother with Bthrow, which I keep moving back as it keeps disappointing me. I'm up to 180% at this point.

So I was trying out "jab" resets with dtilt, into grab of course, but I'd keep jabbing instead. I don't seem to have this problem if I just hold shield and mash A for grab, and in fact it feels like the move ends sooner.

Grounded normals can't be ledge cancelled.

WD -→ Jab is worth mentioning. It's fast, has fair range, and can hitconfirm into a whole lot of stuff, and if you WD fast enough it can be used to cross up.

I HATE the slime effect. PLEASE remove it. There's so much better stuff that could be done with a new effect. Like making an Ice effect that's purely cosmetic, so PK Freeze/Ice Missiles don't look so weird on hit, and playing Ice Climbers or Ice Samus would feel more like it should. Or a green bubbly "Poison" (visual, not damage-over-time) effect so white pikmin don't rely on that ambiguous purple stuff, and which could also be used on Ivysaur and Wario Waft.

Sorry if this seems obvious, but I've never seen it mentioned and I just figured it out:
The bane of any Luigi is failing a WD, probably the worst form of which is when it comes out as a full jump. However, Cyclone causes Luigi to instantly start falling, as well as provides nice hitboxes and great ground speed on landing. Hence, if you find yourself accidentally jumping, just Cyclone and you'll swiftly return to the ground. Luigi's so floaty that you don't even need react particularly quickly for this to still be faster than waiting out the jump then FF'ing. Of course, Luigi does have some powerful aerials, and Cyclone has punishable endlag, so it would still be a good mixup to opt for the one once your opponent starts to expect the other.

Green Missile's aerial ending animation (SpecialAirSEnd) lasts 30 frames, during which he cannot act. If Luigi lands before that animation begins, he goes directly into 41 frames of land lag (SpecialSEnd). However, if he slides off the ground during frame x of SpecialSEnd, then he transitions into frame x+1 of SpecialAirSEnd.
In other words, if you edge-cancel GM, then Luigi has (at least) 30 frames between touching the ground and being able to act. The "at least" comes in if he slides off after 30 frames of SpecialSEnd have already passed, in which case he can act immediately upon leaving the ground. If you fails the edge cancel and he doesn't slide off, he faces an additional 11 frames of lag.
I didn't think to check in game, but it should be that if Luigi lands during frame x of SpecialAirSEnd, he goes into frame x+1 of SpecialSEnd.

So, if you want to cut off the falling portion of GM, then you want to space it so that Luigi lands on his first frame of descent, and thus starts SpecialSEnd. To shave off even more time, he should slide off during the first 30 frames. I should probably have checked to see how long GM falls and when it loses its hitbox, but it should still almost always be worth landing early (bar mixups), in which case it's always best to edge-cancel the landing, preferably sliding off close to frame 30 without going over.

Notice that there are two hitboxes. To get the meteor you have to hit with only the upper one.

So the meteor is actually behind him. I've rarely gotten it on purpose, never outside friendlies, and the regular hit is usually better anyways, but if you want to land it you either have to be below the opponent and risk missing entirely, or sorta sidle/fall onto them.

Dthrow -→ Nair works on floaties from mid- to high-percents with bad DI. I'm pretty sure it works on Zelda.

I've been experimenting a little.

Every Luigi should realize that Green Missile has terrible priority. However, it may be lesser known that it has 5 frames of invincibility upon release, which overlaps with the first frame of hitbox.

When using it, remember the laws of priority. Since GM is always an aerial attack, it will pass right through melee attacks (which probably means you win, unless they have invincibility), but can clank with projectiles. Unstaled, an uncharged GM does 5%, fully charged does 26%, and Misfire does 25%. If you're out-prioritized then you'll probably just take a hit anyway; if you clank you'll do that stop-in-midair thing and be left open; and if you're in-prioritized you'll fly right through.

One use of this is for close-range Misfires in neutral. If your opponent is approaching and you predict an attack, you can just Misfire in their face. May be a good counter for stuff like Wizard Foot.

Another is for farming Misfires. If the opponent is camping with projectiles, you can just charge GM and release when a projectile is right in front of you, so the shot ends immediately. The opponent can take advantage of this, but they'll have to run into range, and whatever they throw out is liable to go right over you (especially grabs). This can be good for making Samus/Mewtwo/Lucario waste a charged shot, but be wary of the Missile -→ Beam combo.

One of the best things about abusing the invincibility like that is how surprising it is. It can really throw the opponent off kilter, which is perfect for Luigi.

I just use my pointer when I need to rise. If I only need to maintain height (for stalling, etc.), I stiffen my thumb, relax my fingers, and use my arm to press. I don't want to switch D-pad because I use it for certain jumps.


Green Missile has some strange behavior on walls. Normally, hitting a wall just causes it to end, which is fairly good for farming Misfires when used out of ledge-drop and into Up-B. However, there's something strange about Skyloft and Lylat. The full animation - hitbox and all - continues after Missiling into their sides. This makes the farming method generally ineffective, with one caveat. If performed with fairly strict timing (which Frame Advance indicates is not about speed) Luigi will grab the ledge right out of GM, as if it were sweet-spotted. This is actually much faster and safer if done correctly than the prior-mentioned method, but is also much harder and more dangerous if messed up.

Dsmash is the same as Melee. Usmash has the same startup with extra active frames, but because of the animation it should actually hit in front later. No difference in hitbox properties either.

Best video example of this character in action.

 

[SmashRayner]

WOW this is a LOT of information
thanks man this really helps me.

 

[SmashRayner]

match up info is needed
also i want to easier for beginners to understand this guide
any and all help is appreciated