Luigi's Position On The Tier List

[Conradical]

Hello people,
There have been many people that say that Luigi is top 10. However, there are others that say he is bottom 40%. I personally think that he is top 5 characters in the game just because of his awesome grab followups. I have a video here showcasing one.

 

[busken]

I think he is top 10, his grab followups are pretty OP, and his vertical recovery is great, as a result he can kill early which is critical in a 2-stock metagame. However, that's all he can really do. Take out his amazing grab followups, moderately faster dash speed, and he will be really similar to brawl Luigi. Which was around C-tier. His poor range and limited approach options are also pretty detrimental. I would put luigi at 6 behind shiek, diddy, ness, rosalina and luma, and falcon/fox.

 

[crashbfan]

Yes Luigi is probably top 10 but that video with a Link CPU doesn't show it.

 

[Yonder]

I'd say top 15ish, just above Mario. Huh, you are all more generous than me. I know for a fact he's worse on the 3ds version though, the only version I have. So maybe that's it. His slow air speed, range [biggest problem] and approach issues [least biggest problem] still pose issues. Most of the top tiers can still outspeed him mobility wise while outranging him, avoiding his grab , and damaging with adequate combo ability [though not as good as Luigi's].

 

[hey_there]

I could see a preliminary tier list placing Luigi high up, maybe in the top 10 or so. I think over time he'll settle in as high tier. He'll always be a solid choice not out of place in top level play, but also not dominant or metagame defining.

 

[crashbfan]

I'd say top 15ish, just above Mario. Huh, you are all more generous than me. I know for a fact he's worse on the 3ds version though, the only version I have. So maybe that's it. His slow air speed, range [biggest problem] and approach issues [least biggest problem] still pose issues. Most of the top tiers can still outspeed him mobility wise while outranging him, avoiding his grab , and damaging with adequate combo ability [though not as good as Luigi's].

how's he worse on the 3DS

 

[Luigi#1]

I'd say top 15, for epic combos and fast aerials, and good tourney placements.
But we are all Luigi mains, so we may be a tad biased.

 

[TriTails]

This is what I confuse of.

In GameFAQs, half of the people say Luigi is godly, meanwhile half of other people say he is garbage.

I honestly think he MIGHT make it to Top 10. But, eh, I guess Top 15, above Mario probably. His pros overshadow his weaknesses, and he has one of the fastest aerials in the game (Maybe around Top 10 or something). His grab game and combo are arguably the best. But his slow-ish mobility (Not counting Cyclone), poor reach and trouble approaching keeps him from being Top 5 or 7. Top 10 at best.

 

[Yonder]

how's he worse on the 3DS

Simple, he kills later on the 3DS version, by quite a bit actually, some 15-30%. As you can see in Boss' videos, he relies on D throw to nair kills, which do not kill in the 3DS version unless the move is super fresh [But I prefer it for combos].

Also, jumpless cyclones are harder on the 3DS.

So if Luigi is top 10 on the Wii U version, I wouldn't be surprised. I just can't judge from that perspective because I don't have it.

 

[TriTails]

I have a 3DS, and I prefer D-throw + U-air. It's an underrated option for lighter characters.

Or you could D-throw -> Run foward -> B-air. Not a true combo, but that B-air is like a smash attack already.

Or maybe D-throw + D-air + Immediate N-air. The extra 10% damage might help on KOing.

 

[hey_there]

D-throw -> Run foward -> B-air. Not a true combo, but that B-air is like a smash attack already.

Bair comes out a frame faster than fair, so it definitely combos. I use dthrow -> bair pretty regularly. You can turn around before following up with a bair to knock people off stage.

 

[TriTails]

Right, thanks for the advice. Seems like dashing foward first give the opponent a time to air dodge. But seriously, sweetspotted B-air is Luigi's 4th smash attack. And I do believe Mario can't kill as early as Luigi's. Although, I may be wrong.

And also, is it just me, or Luigi can actually use FOUR F-airs in one full hop? Technically, it's 3.5 F-airs, as the animation of the 4th F-air is cut short. However, despite of 4th F-air half-only animation, it definitely has a hitbox.

Well, if you guys want to test it, get a CPU in FD training mode grab the ledge. They should jump, and let them land. Next, stand in the middle, then jump (Preferably with the tap jump) and immediately use F-airs as fast as you can. If you pulled it off right, Luigi will slap his opponent and land in their former position.

Maybe you guys can try it?

 

[Doctor_Mario]

I think Luigi is semi-par with Mario, probably a bit lower.

 

[HeroMystic]

As it stands right now, Luigi is probably top 15 in this game. The metagame right now relies on heavy aggression, so Luigi shines with this style.

As the metagame evolves I feel Luigi (and Mario) will simmer down as aggression will be countered with good defense. I predict both brothers will never be lower than Top 25 though.

 

[Conradical]

Yes Luigi is probably top 10 but that video with a Link CPU doesn't show it.

I was just showing how good his grab options were.

 

[TriTails]

I don't think Luigi actually relies on heavy aggresion. He is quite suck at approaching. He is more to 'Punish to approach' sytle. I heard Mario is the one that aggresive, but thinking that his approach options are quite limited, I have to question that.

That said, I literally just threw a Fireball then run to people to approach. Though, sometimes I play defensively.

 

[busken]

I don't think Luigi actually relies on heavy aggresion. He is quite suck at approaching. He is more to 'Punish to approach' sytle. I heard Mario is the one that aggresive, but thinking that his approach options are quite limited, I have to question that.

That said, I literally just threw a Fireball then run to people to approach. Though, sometimes I play defensively.

Just because Luigi has poor approach options it does not change how aggressive he is. Luigi is close-ranged fighter, who thrives off of strong physically-oriented specials, strong aerials, and down throw combos. With that logic, you would say that Little Mac is not aggressive as his approach options are also poor.

 

[HeroMystic]

I don't think Luigi actually relies on heavy aggresion. He is quite suck at approaching. He is more to 'Punish to approach' sytle. I heard Mario is the one that aggresive, but thinking that his approach options are quite limited, I have to question that.

That said, I literally just threw a Fireball then run to people to approach. Though, sometimes I play defensively.

You've more or less stated how both Mario and Luigi works. They are both aggressive characters. Just because they lack approach options, it doesn't mean that they can't be aggressive. It's all just a matter of being smart and waiting for an opportunity.

Many people believe approaching is just bum-rushing your opponent with whatever and overwhelming them with blockstrings or whathaveyou. That's not the only way to approach though. In fact in this game that'll probably just get you killed. You can think of the Mario Bros as characters that no one wants to give up control to, because they have the ability to take a commanding lead once an opening is made. This is why the best way to fight the brothers is to be as safe as possible.

Granted, Mario is the better approaching fighter. Luigi just gets more reward out of his hit confirms, and has way better kill setups.

 

[GreenFlame]

Anybody who says Luigi is bottom 40% needs to have a proper look at the game.

Top 20 at least, otherwise I've lost all faith in the Smash community's ability to build tier lists lol

 

[TriTails]

Heck, anybody who says Luigi (Or Mario) is in the lower half of the tier list needs to be fired.

I.... guess I misunderstood what 'aggresive' means in Smash Bros. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[HeroMystic]

I.... guess I misunderstood what 'aggresive' means in Smash Bros. Sorry 'bout that.

Don't apologize. Your idea on aggression is true, just with the way how shields work it's not really possible to sustain a blockstring without proper mobility or heavy shield damage bonus (which only comes from DK, Paluntena, Bowser, and Lil'Mac). For instance, Mario can cross-up shields with D-air to avoid getting grabbed, and use N-air, B-air, or U-Smash to punish pivot attempts. Luigi can do the same with Cyclone, and as long as you mash B to push Luigi in the air, he'll only be punishable by lengthy U-Smashes and Up-B OOS. The problem with these blockstrings though is shield regeneration is too fast for it to matter (it's pretty much my only complaint as far defense is concerned), so the idea of shield pressure is a shaky one at best. There's no Wolverine-esque character that can obliterate defense in a statisical manner.

This is why Smash Bros. as a whole is about being two steps ahead of your opponent. Your idea of Luigi shooting a fireball, then rushing in to attack is a basic concept of reading your opponent. You fireball, the opponent shields, you grab the shielding opponent, you deal damage. Similarly, Mario can do the same thing, but can also punish opponents who roll into him with D-air (best option), D-Smash (meh option), and others.

What makes Mario/Luigi aggressive characters is after this. You just get hit confirm, and now you have way more opportunities to further press your advantage. You get into your opponent's head, and they have to avoid your next offensive maneuver. Thing is, you know as a player they'll be doing this, so you read what your opponent is doing and capitalize on it. The Bros' attack speed and mobility enables them to fully utilize this, as opposed to, say, Rosalina, whom is built as a zoning character and relies on limiting options during the neutral states rather than after getting hit confirm. Rosalina doesn't gain a lot of advantage by hitting you. At best she gets an U-air string from U-throw. Otherwise, she's perfectly fine with knocking you away and continuing to space you with Luma and her tilts. Mario/Luigi however strongly prefers to be within your personal space and scaring you with their plethora of options available to them.

Hope this explains some things.

 

[TriTails]

I see. Thanks for the explanation (Yeah, I like to apologize like, a lot. But I believe USA people also do this? That's what I get from my schoolbook).

Now that you mention it. Shield regeneration, while it can be pretty useful, it's annoyingly fast. Luigi slides a lot, which means follow-ups against his shield is almost impossible unless it's something like Megaman's Mega Buster. While I do appreciate its speed, I also find it quite annoying as we can't break shield unless we try like a madman unless you are someone like you mentioned, Marth/Lucina, or Megaman in some cases (Crash Bomber + F-smash. Works sometimes, but it's hard). Plus, I think even the least slidey character would be glad to have some shield regeneration nerfs.

 

[sims796]

Thank you so much for clarifying aggression. I've always thought Luigi was more of a rushdown character, but I've have more sucess simply being patient.

 

[Kursed]

Because of the set knock back on Luigi's down-throw, Luigi can get a ton of kill moves out of it. My only problem is that it's a 50/50 chance if the victim air dodges in the middle of the combo.

Luigi would be even more aggressive too if his shield slide didn't knock him so far back. This way grabbing and punishing it makes it so much harder. I don't think Luigi is a super high tier character, but he definitely is in the top 15.

 

[John Wulfe]

I say top 10 , Boss is clarification of that theory . However let them think down about the green machine , they won't think they need to learn the match up then .

 

[TriTails]

It hurts my heart to think Mario and Luigi will most likely not going to make it to Top 5 or whatever in every Smash game. Since they are designed to be balanced.

But at least, they are very viable for tourneys.

 

[Yonder]

It hurts my heart to think Mario and Luigi will most likely not going to make it to Top 5 or whatever in every Smash game. Since they are designed to be balanced.

But at least, they are very viable for tourneys.

I don't want them top 5 anyways, then people will bandwagon them and play them for easy wins and not because of the actual character. *cough Diddy*

 

[Kursed]

[Yonder, post: ]I don't want them top 5 anyways, then people will bandwagon them and play them for easy wins and not because of the actual character. *cough Diddy*[post] ( i can't reply to quotes )

Yeah, I definitely agree with this, Mario and luigi are pretty balanced which is a good thing really. I think luigi is such an under used character in the game, that placing it way up top 5 would make him have way more popularity than he should have. I mean, in SSBB look at meta knight, I surely didn't begin to use him until I saw some SS tier battles on youtube. It's a good thing too. I have 1v1'd quite a few luigi mains and every one beats my ass. I have yet to find a bad luigi main player.

 

[Yonder]

[Yonder, post: ]I don't want them top 5 anyways, then people will bandwagon them and play them for easy wins and not because of the actual character. *cough Diddy*[post] ( i can't reply to quotes )

Yeah, I definitely agree with this, Mario and luigi are pretty balanced which is a good thing really. I think luigi is such an under used character in the game, that placing it way up top 5 would make him have way more popularity than he should have. I mean, in SSBB look at meta knight, I surely didn't begin to use him until I saw some SS tier battles on youtube. It's a good thing too. I have 1v1'd quite a few luigi mains and every one beats my ***. I have yet to find a bad luigi main player.

Usually because Luigi mains are extremely dedicated. Anyone picking up Luigi at a first glance tends to drop him because he's not an auto win button. He moves slowly, has bad traction, recovery takes skill to use, and he has nothing really exploitable like a super spammable projectile [Falco, Pikachu, etc]. So people don't stick with him, he has a high learning curve. That's my theory anyways.

For the record, Bad Luigis on FG tend to just spam missile. Works pretty...awful. Lol. Missile isn't even too great, less you're using quick missile.

 

[TriTails]

Usually because Luigi mains are extremely dedicated. Anyone picking up Luigi at a first glance tends to drop him because he's not an auto win button. He moves slowly, has bad traction, recovery takes skill to use, and he has nothing really exploitable like a super spammable projectile [Falco, Pikachu, etc]. So people don't stick with him, he has a high learning curve. That's my theory anyways.

So much this.

People see him as a bad character because they don't even spend time trying to master him. He is no spammers, unlike Captain Falcon who can just spams Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost to beat FG bad players (In the earlier meta, anyway), or Ganondorf who can literally Flame Choke + D-tilt to death, or Diddy who D-throws U-airs to get an easy win, and the list goes on.....

Thing is, nothing about him is easy. His recovery is the most complicated in the game (Mashing buttons.....), combos ain't easy, approaching ain't easy, landing a grab ain't easy, etc. What? He is no Pit, who can just say "Whatever' and pressed Up-b to get to the ledge, or Sheik who can just Bouncing Fish to the opponent, or Captain Falcon who can just dash grab and actually gets them, etc. His potential buried probably the deepest, and no light training can find them, take my word to it.

 

[Seth B.]

So much this.

People see him as a bad character because they don't even spend time trying to master him. He is no spammers, unlike Captain Falcon who can just spams Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost to beat FG bad players (In the earlier meta, anyway), or Ganondorf who can literally Flame Choke + D-tilt to death, or Diddy who D-throws U-airs to get an easy win, and the list goes on.....

Thing is, nothing about him is easy. His recovery is the most complicated in the game (Mashing buttons.....), combos ain't easy, approaching ain't easy, landing a grab ain't easy, etc. What? He is no Pit, who can just say "Whatever' and pressed Up-b to get to the ledge, or Sheik who can just Bouncing Fish to the opponent, or Captain Falcon who can just dash grab and actually gets them, etc. His potential buried probably the deepest, and no light training can find them, take my word to it.

You make a very valid point about his recovery, though I think he has some of the best recovery ability in the game, which makes edge guarding very accessible. Not only that, but if you find yourself very far away from the stage, there's always the chance of getting a misfire which can really save you from some ugly situations (or screw you over depending on where it happens). He has so much depth and I know for sure that his metagame will continue to evolve.

 

[hey_there]

Missile isn't even too great, less you're using quick missile.

I tend to disagree. I think missile is underrated and quick missile is overrated. Missile can catch someone just out of reach that's airdodging and either clip them for 10% damage or 25% and a free KO. It's not something to spam, but it's not something to completely ignore either.

On quick missile, I've lost a bunch of matches wishing I'd taken one of the other missiles. Something will happen like I'll be near the edge without jumps, but too far to get there by just floating down and I'm being edge guarded. I use missile to try and get to the ledge but then end up so far below the ledge due to the massive ending lag that I can't reach it with up b and there goes my stock. It's also impossible to recover low because you just die, either from end lag or edge guarding. Against competent players, quick missile ending on stage is just asking to be punished, like Lucario's extreme espeed on stage. Also it seems to get stuck in the stage more often than the other two missiles. I mean, maybe I just haven't adapted to it, but I really don't like it.

 

[MonkeyArms]

I'd position him at maybe the 6th best character in the game. 1st/2nd is Rosalina or diddy 3rd/4th is fox/sonic to me, I personally have seen good fox players be very successful, and sonic is just to good at everything. 5th is captain falcon because he can both combo and kill well, and hardly would have any bad match ups if perfected. I'd also think I'd actually tie Mario with luigi because he has less damage strings and less smash power on up and don't smash and a slower forward smash BUT he is much less predictable. I don't think zero suit and sheik are actually good enough for these positions, think about it. if you have not perfected the games mechanics in the game sheik is about high tier, the problem with sheik is honestly she doesn't do enough damage with combos. zero suit samus is just open to much.

 

[TriTails]

I'd also think I'd actually tie Mario with luigi because he has less damage strings and less smash power on up and don't smash and a slower forward smash BUT he is much less predictable.

Heck the what?

Luigi is one of the most unpredictable characters in the game.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Heck the what?

Luigi is one of the most unpredictable characters in the game.

He might be but its clearly obvious marios specials and his ariel mobility gives Mario more options and less predictability to luigis more easily predictable specials. Mario can also delay his ariel momentum making his recovery less predictable and he has much more options to edge guard.

I never said luigi isn't predictable bro. its just his options are more limited

 

[TriTails]

He might be but its clearly obvious marios specials and his ariel mobility gives Mario more options and less predictability to luigis more easily predictable specials. Mario can also delay his ariel momentum making his recovery less predictable and he has much more options to edge guard.

I never said luigi isn't predictable bro. its just his options are more limited

By delaying 'aerial momentum', I assume he can stop moving in the air?

Mario's recovery is still predictable. He has little to no mixups. Think about it, he can only Capes -> double jump -> SJP, or double jump -> Capes -> SJP.

Compare it to Luigi's.

He can either....
Jumped Cyclone -> Green Missile -> SJP
Green Missile -> Jumped Cyclone -> SJP

And for insanely fast button mashers....
Jumpless Cyclone -> Green Missile -> double jump -> SJP
Green Missile -> Jumpless Cyclone -> double jump -> SJP
Double jump -> Jumpless Cyclone -> Green Missile -> SJP
Double jump -> Green Missile -> Jumpless Cyclone ->SJP

Heck, if you REALLY want to stretch it, add in jumped Missile.

His Green Missile and Luigi Cyclone gives him lots of mixups in his recovery, and he can recover high or low as he wish.

Plus, he has more options than Mario IMO. Approaching, for example, he can throw Fireballs, then dash grab, but he can also replace the dash grab with running Cyclone or Green Missile, and all of them can only be countered by some dodges. Spotdodges and rolls, punished with Cyclone and Green Missile. Shield, punished with dash grab.

For edgeguard, well, yes, Mario has more options. One special of his literally is designed to edgeguard, and he also has other option, Cape.

But for most part, I do THINK Luigi has more options thanks to his Missile and Cyclone. But maybe some other competitive Luigi mains can correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[MonkeyArms]

By delaying 'aerial momentum', I assume he can stop moving in the air?

Mario's recovery is still predictable. He has little to no mixups. Think about it, he can only Capes -> double jump -> SJP, or double jump -> Capes -> SJP.

Compare it to Luigi's.

He can either....
Jumped Cyclone -> Green Missile -> SJP
Green Missile -> Jumped Cyclone -> SJP

And for insanely fast button mashers....
Jumpless Cyclone -> Green Missile -> double jump -> SJP
Green Missile -> Jumpless Cyclone -> double jump -> SJP
Double jump -> Jumpless Cyclone -> Green Missile -> SJP
Double jump -> Green Missile -> Jumpless Cyclone ->SJP

Heck, if you REALLY want to stretch it, add in jumped Missile.

His Green Missile and Luigi Cyclone gives him lots of mixups in his recovery, and he can recover high or low as he wish.

Plus, he has more options than Mario IMO. Approaching, for example, he can throw Fireballs, then dash grab, but he can also replace the dash grab with running Cyclone or Green Missile, and all of them can only be countered by some dodges. Spotdodges and rolls, punished with Cyclone and Green Missile. Shield, punished with dash grab.

For edgeguard, well, yes, Mario has more options. One special of his literally is designed to edgeguard, and he also has other option, Cape.

But for most part, I do THINK Luigi has more options thanks to his Missile and Cyclone. But maybe some other competitive Luigi mains can correct me if I'm wrong?

You do realize that both luigi's side b and down b have incredibly high end lag right?

and if you haven't noticed, I MAIN luigi. if you try to mix up his recovery, you'll only end up screwing yourself over unless your cycloning high off the stage, which you make your recovery worse if they hit you back off and probably you won't have your double jump. jump missling does help recover, but that is ONLY if the opponent doesn't interrupt with ANY attack, which basically makes you dead.

The only real reliable way of recovering with luigi is recovering low, and you rarely want to use your cyclone off the ledge unless you have to use it to recover off the stage or you ARE ABSOLUTLY A MASTER OF BUTTON MASHING.

And if your opponent is on a walled omega, its that much worse because you can only recover from one position basically.

BTW, Mario has MANY ways of approaching.
Mario can fireball to grab.
Mario can jump into a neutral air.
Mario can even approach with THE CAPE.
Mario can approach with a dash attack, which is usually reliable if your opponent can't hit very low.
Mario can approach with back air.
Mario can approach with up air.
Mario can approach with an up smash.
Mario can approach with a down air
Mario can even jump fireball into a neutral air, down air, cape, or up air.

Luigi can fireball to grab
Luigi can neutral air
Luigi can approach with a down air, but its not reliable.
Luigi can approach with a down b, but its very punishable
Luigi can approach with a fireball to dash attack.
Luigi can approach with a forward air.
Luigi can approach with a back air.

So yeah, luigi has a lot of options for approaching. but either way you slice it, luigi is a more predictable character than Mario. His down throw can even be DIed to eliminate some d-throw options.

Like I said, I flipping main luigi.

 

[Seth B.]

I tend to disagree. I think missile is underrated and quick missile is overrated. Missile can catch someone just out of reach that's airdodging and either clip them for 10% damage or 25% and a free KO. It's not something to spam, but it's not something to completely ignore either.

On quick missile, I've lost a bunch of matches wishing I'd taken one of the other missiles. Something will happen like I'll be near the edge without jumps, but too far to get there by just floating down and I'm being edge guarded. I use missile to try and get to the ledge but then end up so far below the ledge due to the massive ending lag that I can't reach it with up b and there goes my stock. It's also impossible to recover low because you just die, either from end lag or edge guarding. Against competent players, quick missile ending on stage is just asking to be punished, like Lucario's extreme espeed on stage. Also it seems to get stuck in the stage more often than the other two missiles. I mean, maybe I just haven't adapted to it, but I really don't like it.

Sorry for the late reply but I just now checked this thread again. If you're trying to recover from off stage, don't jump before you missle. Always go for the middle to get closer to the stage and then use your jump(and your recovery if needed). It gives you more options to get back onto the stage. Always missle when as soon as you can as well so you aren't to far below the stage to recover.

 

[GreenFlame]

Sorry for the late reply but I just now checked this thread again. If you're trying to recover from off stage, don't jump before you missle. Always go for the middle to get closer to the stage and then use your jump(and your recovery if needed). It gives you more options to get back onto the stage. Always missle when as soon as you can as well so you aren't to far below the stage to recover.

Definitely agree with this. Luigi's second jump is his life, he can use it to get up low and avoid edge-guarding.


About Mario, his recovery isn't very good. Luigi (or anyone) can literally f-air him once after he jumps at mid percents and there he goes, because he has almost no horizontal recovery and mediocre vertical recovery. I also don't see how it has got lots of mix-ups.

Luigi is better than Mario IMO, in damage output, combos, recovery, and aerials. Also, the majority of competent players can easily avoid F.L.U.D.D and cape as most characters because they know to recover low.

 

[TriTails]

Just gonna copy-paste my post in the other thread now.

I was about to make a thread about Weegee tier placement, but somewhat reversed. I'm warning you, my post might be a bit pessimistic side here.

Alright. First off, as everybody would have noticed, Luigi got a major flaw, and that is his mobility.

I feel that, this flaw can be easily exploited by a lot of characters. This isn't Diddy's recovery flaw, but Luigi's mobility problems just seem.... very major.

I think that.... once people adapt to his playsytle, they will learn on how to outspeed him. This significantly worries me about Luigi's future meta.

Again, his mobility problems are HUGE! No, Diddy has his recovery flaws, but it's not as big as this. Sheik and Pika had killing problems, but they can cover it up with their amazing egeguarding. Falcon and Sonic had no reliable projectile, but they make it up with their speed.

Luigi? I have yet to see anyone manage to cover his mobility problems up in competitive plays. I feel that, this can harm Luigi much more than characters who have a big flaw, but can make up for it. Luigi has problems chasing his opponents, which certainly pose a threat to Luigi's short range and grabs, and grabs are extremely important to his game, as we all know.

No, I didn't post this because I went to a big losing streak. In fact, I won most of my matches just now. But I feel that... Luigi's mobility, combined with his traction, do more harm than good, like, MUCH more. Yeah, I know Snake has bad mobility, but was still top tier in Brawl. But from what I have heard, he was excellent in zoning and defensive game, something Luigi doesn't excel in.

Unless they buff his mobility, or... revamp his whole moveset to be a defensive character (Which is VERY highly doubt), I feel that Luigi will be no higher than high-mid. His mobility affects his combo game so much, and while he is certainly a beast when he gets in, he has trouble approaching partly because if his mobility. If a character can wall Luigi out and keep the damage rise from afar, Luigi is a dead man walking.

Look guys, I'm sorry if I'm sounded like I'm about to ditch Luigi, I won't do that. And sorry if this post is pessimistic, but I just HAD to let this out. I feel that, his mobility will do harm to his placement. Can we all have a discussion on this?