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Maining Greninja: is it ok?
- Thread starter AuraSSB4
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Proteun
Smash Cadet
Greninja's not top tier anymore, but I personally don't think that should be something to take into account too much when picking a main. It might just be a good idea to have a backup character that's a bit higher up in those tiers.
E.D.N.D.N
Smash Cadet
He's pretty much a worse sheik that's more technical but with much less to show for it. Really fun to play and super stylish though.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Do what you feel is necessary. On my end, I've often found Greninja to be an unsafe fighter, since it doesn't really have any safe approaches, and a lot of its raw power comes from its smash attacks. Of course, I'm probably just very lousy with Greninja as a whole.
topspin1617
Smash Apprentice
My view is that any character in this game is viable as a choice for a main... but more importantly, I actually view Smash 4 as a game where playing multiple characters is almost necessary to succeed at the highest levels.
We discuss the game engine itself at excruciating length, debating how fit for competitive play it is... but I feel like other important aspects of the overall competitive environment are totally lost in that discussion. To me, the competition starts before the characters even start fighting, before the game engine even comes into play. What makes Smash 4 a great competitive game to me is that, while there are certainly stronger and weaker characters, I feel like every character is capable of certain things that make them worth putting practice time into. Picking a character to counter an opponent's character or even their playstyle is more important than in any previous Smash, imo. Because not only does every character have different abilities, but I also think most characters can be played pretty effectively in a variety of different ways. There may be consensus on the "optimal" way to play a character, but that doesn't mean doing something else is totally unviable, and in fact can be beneficial either because it's unexpected or because the "less optimal" playstyle is actually very effective against your opponent's character and/or playstyle.
And then, of course, there's adapting mid-match to gain an upper hand. Because most characters have enough tools to be able to try a couple different things, you're always able to adapt on the fly to put yourself in a better position to win the match. For me personally, Greninja is my secondary behind Peach. Most people, I think, view Greninja as a primarily defensive character, making use of Water Shurikens and spaced fairs to force your opponent to approach, at which time Greninja can punish almost anything that isn't executed to perfection. However, I tend to play far more aggressively than that. (And not just with Greninja... I like to play almost every character from time to time, and I play offensively with every single one. Of course that doesn't have to mean rushdown, depending on the tools the character has available.) I still do well playing Greninja more aggressively, but the real key for me is flowing in and out of an aggressive approach and zoning with Shurikens. I've won so many matches by, as soon as I see my opponent adapting to my aggression, switching to a more defensive zoning game, and changing between styles whenever necessary.
One of the great things about this game to me is that this sort of thing is possible with every character. Even when I mess around with someone like Zelda or Wii Fit Trainer, I rarely think "wow, there's literally nothing I can do here." Of course there are some polarizing matchups to where that's basically true, but even within most of those matchups I feel that it's often possible to compete very well by playing intelligently and using absolutely every tool at your character's disposal.
So... that probably doesn't really answer the original question lol, but it does in the sense that I'm saying, yes, Greninja is a perfectly viable main, and so is every other character in the game. At the same time, no matter WHO you main, learning a few characters, and different playstyles with the same characters even, can really do wonders for your overall competitive viability. I personally have around 6 characters I'd count as my main and strong secondaries: Peach, Greninja, Mega Man, Bowser Jr. (actually Lemmy haha =P), Mewtwo, & Charizard. And I play most other characters relatively competently, though of course you can't really master everyone. But if I'm playing a tough opponent, I'm completely comfortable switching off of Peach to any of the other 5 if I feel something about the match warrants it, and being able to do that makes a HUGE difference to whether or not I'm capable of beating someone.
We discuss the game engine itself at excruciating length, debating how fit for competitive play it is... but I feel like other important aspects of the overall competitive environment are totally lost in that discussion. To me, the competition starts before the characters even start fighting, before the game engine even comes into play. What makes Smash 4 a great competitive game to me is that, while there are certainly stronger and weaker characters, I feel like every character is capable of certain things that make them worth putting practice time into. Picking a character to counter an opponent's character or even their playstyle is more important than in any previous Smash, imo. Because not only does every character have different abilities, but I also think most characters can be played pretty effectively in a variety of different ways. There may be consensus on the "optimal" way to play a character, but that doesn't mean doing something else is totally unviable, and in fact can be beneficial either because it's unexpected or because the "less optimal" playstyle is actually very effective against your opponent's character and/or playstyle.
And then, of course, there's adapting mid-match to gain an upper hand. Because most characters have enough tools to be able to try a couple different things, you're always able to adapt on the fly to put yourself in a better position to win the match. For me personally, Greninja is my secondary behind Peach. Most people, I think, view Greninja as a primarily defensive character, making use of Water Shurikens and spaced fairs to force your opponent to approach, at which time Greninja can punish almost anything that isn't executed to perfection. However, I tend to play far more aggressively than that. (And not just with Greninja... I like to play almost every character from time to time, and I play offensively with every single one. Of course that doesn't have to mean rushdown, depending on the tools the character has available.) I still do well playing Greninja more aggressively, but the real key for me is flowing in and out of an aggressive approach and zoning with Shurikens. I've won so many matches by, as soon as I see my opponent adapting to my aggression, switching to a more defensive zoning game, and changing between styles whenever necessary.
One of the great things about this game to me is that this sort of thing is possible with every character. Even when I mess around with someone like Zelda or Wii Fit Trainer, I rarely think "wow, there's literally nothing I can do here." Of course there are some polarizing matchups to where that's basically true, but even within most of those matchups I feel that it's often possible to compete very well by playing intelligently and using absolutely every tool at your character's disposal.
So... that probably doesn't really answer the original question lol, but it does in the sense that I'm saying, yes, Greninja is a perfectly viable main, and so is every other character in the game. At the same time, no matter WHO you main, learning a few characters, and different playstyles with the same characters even, can really do wonders for your overall competitive viability. I personally have around 6 characters I'd count as my main and strong secondaries: Peach, Greninja, Mega Man, Bowser Jr. (actually Lemmy haha =P), Mewtwo, & Charizard. And I play most other characters relatively competently, though of course you can't really master everyone. But if I'm playing a tough opponent, I'm completely comfortable switching off of Peach to any of the other 5 if I feel something about the match warrants it, and being able to do that makes a HUGE difference to whether or not I'm capable of beating someone.
ChrisTheSheriff
Smash Rookie
Smash 4 is balanced as it is Main who you want really, one problem with Greninja is that you cant charge cancel his charge special attack which is frustrating as can be due to him just standing there, almost completely open to attack during that time... But I play him better than Zero Suit Samus, who I mained for a while before deciding on Greninja as my Primary Main... He is decent if you learn what you do and when you should do it...
We need a sticky explaining why that doesn't make sense. Greninja isn't a worse Sheik. There's no reason at all to even consider them similar other than that they both have fast run speed and... are ninjas. Their up smashes are kinda similar too? That's it. I have no idea how this concept persists.
ChrisTheSheriff
Smash Rookie
They are probably looking at tiers and judging based on playstyle types... Not Realizing how much smash 4 is balanced...
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WolfieXVII ❂
stay woke
mmmmohmyyyGoD
Okay lemme clear things up for you before this thread gets flagged and locked for unnecessary stupidity
He was nerfed in various areas because he was very ridiculous
He was also buffed in certain areas to compensate for those nerfs
see that word
buffs
He is still very viable and was only nerfed because as a character he was ridiculous
Nerfing doesn't destroy a character
ie. Rosa, Diddy, Luigi
Why is the gamepad even relevant lmao
please use the wonderful info from the boards and/or check out some Greninja VODs on youtube or twitch before you make a thread saying something silly without anything even remotely relevant to back up your claim
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Greninja was only ridiculous in his bugs. His only "overpowered" aspects were of the result of bugs/ oversights, like Hydro Pump's insane knockback and Shadow Sneak being cancelable from almost anything. His actual "nerfs," that is to his knockback, his shuriken, and his up smash, were pretty questionable/ premature. If his bugs were to not exist, then comparing him to the insanity of vanilla Rosalina (can't grab her), Sheik (Bouncing Fish and back air KO at 110%), and Diddy Kong (we already know this one), he had no place in top tier. Nerfing can certainly destroy a character, and the shuriken nerf in particular came close to doing that to Greninja. Of Sheik, Rosalina, and Diddy Kong, he's the only one who took a nerf that fundamentally altered his play style, severely limiting his zoning/ harassment capabilities.
But Greninja is a good character now in spite of some dumb quirks. Unless you main Sheik or Mario (and even then, someone might argue that's not enough), you're going to end up needing a second character, and Greninja isn't any exception. But he'll work fine as a main as long as you learn the matchups rather than running around dash grabbing at random.
But Greninja is a good character now in spite of some dumb quirks. Unless you main Sheik or Mario (and even then, someone might argue that's not enough), you're going to end up needing a second character, and Greninja isn't any exception. But he'll work fine as a main as long as you learn the matchups rather than running around dash grabbing at random.
GooberGaming
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2015
- Messages
- 130
One thing that I appreciate about how character nerfs are handled in this game is that characters are not OVER nerfed and compensated reasonably.
Greninja is a great character to main, he has his faults but he also has a lot of great tools. Hydro Pump is a lot of fun!! :D.
I also do not see him played a lot in tourneys or For Glory, so its nice to main a character that is underused.
Bias here, but yes, it's okay to main Greninja.
A topic like this is better off in the General Thread; this thread will be locked as a result.
A topic like this is better off in the General Thread; this thread will be locked as a result.
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