Mario Discussion: OP is a bad person

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Pros unspoiler this:

Spoiler

Alright! we got our own charactter specific discussion now!

Firstly, i'd like to start off with how we can improve mario's metagame.

still nothing about the spoiler up here. ^
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ATTENTION:​

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This needs updates, and better order and whatnot, i'm going to delete the guide here for now, as i make a much better one, i realize now that it takes time to make a guide, and i'd to make it to the best to my abilities.

for now, this can just be discussion.

also, if you'd like to perhaps help out, feel free to PM me and whatnot, we don't have many mario mains here, but i digress.

 

[King Funk]

"Cons: However, he has bad air speed, limiting his recovery, and a few range and power issues as a part of his "all-around" attributes."

......................... What?

 

[Surri-Sama]

His recovery isn't really limited...

other then his Usmash though, power and range are a "small" draw back...I am almost tempted to say the broken hit box that is his Usmash makes up for it though

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

"Cons: However, he has bad air speed, limiting his recovery, and a few range and power issues as a part of his "all-around" attributes."

......................... What?

It was a quote, not my initial saying. i was just kind of rushing through it so i didn't catch it.

He has great recovery, Above average air speed, he does have some power issues, etc.

 

[dandan]

though if you edgehog his recovery he does not really have anything to do about it.
a mario that does not sweetspots is usually a mario that will be straight back outside the edge.

 

[Surri-Sama]

edge hogging is a big thing vs mario, but you can also throw some fireballs while falling back to the edge to help keep the edge hog at bay

 

[dandan]

edge hogging is a big thing vs mario, but you can also throw some fireballs while falling back to the edge to help keep the edge hog at bay

well, there are ways to counteract that though, if mario is far away and the fireballs take time to arrive, you can just jump off and back on to the stage, and if he throws them from near, you can just jump off the stage and hit him through the fireballs.
in example falcon can just bair the fireball and mario if mario throws them too close.

 

[Surri-Sama]

if to close yes...and if they drop from their spot on the ledge you can improvise your position at least...making it better then just watching your self die xD

 

[th3kuzinator]

his usmash hit box is CERTAINLY not broken.

It is actually a very small hitbox that centers around his head. The reason this hitbox is considered broken is because the actual hurtbox is present for a surprisingly long time after the move is initiated. Even after the animation makes it seem as if the hurtbox would have faded, it is still there and in full force.

 

[Surri-Sama]

lol no, I've been like an inch away from mario and got clipped by the Usmash xD

 

[ballin4life]

I don't think Mario has an advantage against Kirby...

 

[Surri-Sama]

I think he does kinda because he can actually pressure kirby really easily (fireballs), as well as being able to combo him to death and finish him without much effort... (its all about Uair and Usmash )

Mario isn't so easy to combo with kirby...and at least harder to gimp then most...so i still think Mario is good vs Kirby

 

[th3kuzinator]

A little bigger than I remembered, but still not that wide.

 

[Surri-Sama]

yeah, its annoying...you can see how far it actually sticks out from his head though

In the back its the worst as you can see...it is about an inch outwards

 

[dandan]

Mario isn't so easy to combo with kirby...and at least harder to gimp then most...so i still think Mario is good vs Kirby

utilts to weak bair to dair all day.
i also do not think mario has the advantage, though he suffers a lot less than others.

yeah, its annoying...you can see how far it actually sticks out from his head though

In the back its the worst as you can see...it is about an inch outwards

the problem with it is that the priority is really big, so you can be even further away and jab and will lose the exchange and get tossed up from way afar.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Utilts wont **** mario unless you are caught without a jump...and even then its not as bad as the others

 

[ballin4life]

Kirby is one of the only characters that can edgeguard mario consistently, with dtilts and dairs. Utilts still combo, and mario can't combo kirby THAT well (you need a platform to do uair usmash). Also, how does mario start combos vs kirby? Dair uair won't work because kirby is too short. Mario would have to get under kirby to start an uair chain, and this leaves him vulnerable to dair.

 

[ciaza]

What would be the match-up ratio if Kirby has Mario's fireball ability?

Also ballin, a running short hop dair>uair can normally hit kirby quite well, though you'd have to be sure that kirby isn't just sitting there waiting with a utilt/Fsmash/anything really.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Kirby shouldn't be able to get you in the B move honestly ...if he does, you've done something wrong

and kirby might have a hard time catching you with Utilt while having to deal with Fireballs and fake approaches :o

 

[ciaza]

Kirby shouldn't be able to get you in the B move honestly ...if he does, you've done something wrong


and kirby might have a hard time catching you with Utilt while having to deal with Fireballs and fake approaches :o

Yeah I know just a hypothetical though lol.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I know, im actually agreeing with you

Saying you can use fireballs and tactics to pressure a camping kirby

 

[DemonicInfluence]

personally i don't think uair chains are that hard to do, but I guess you're the expert

 

[Surri-Sama]

i think he means Uair chains -> Usmash require a ledge...making it a situational finisher...thats what i understand anyways

 

[DemonicInfluence]

i think he means Uair chains -> Usmash require a ledge...making it a situational finisher...thats what i understand anyways

there was some ninja editing between when i loaded the guide and when i made the post lol

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Firstly. i would like to personally thank you all for contributing.

Secondly,I will now be adding pictures along with their hitboxes and other information.

I will not be on until tommorow morning(i don't have classes then) so i will be putting up a "under construction tablet."

And surri(or other mods), if you feel like adding a quote or something in the op, feel free to do so.

 

[ballin4life]

Kirby shouldn't be able to get you in the B move honestly ...if he does, you've done something wrong

and kirby might have a hard time catching you with Utilt while having to deal with Fireballs and fake approaches :o

I think you can combo into a power steal

 

[Surri-Sama]

LOL you could but then the kirby is being dumb

 

[Fireblaster]

his usmash hit box is CERTAINLY not broken.

It is actually a very small hitbox that centers around his head. The reason this hitbox is considered broken is because the actual hurtbox is present for a surprisingly long time after the move is initiated. Even after the animation makes it seem as if the hurtbox would have faded, it is still there and in full force.

You don't understand how the hitbox works. There's a reason that there's like one or two aerial moves ever that can trade with a well spaced mario usmash. Go back to the hitbox picture and realize that the blue hitbox means it is invincible (You must hit the yellow hitbox in order to hit mario).

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Off-topic fire but where have you been?

I haven't seen you since that one time you hosted a livestream/playing mario party 3.
fun times, fun times.

back on topic,should i add situational level advice also?
y/n

 

[Surri-Sama]

Deffinitly, add anything you can think of really... anything that can help a mario player

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

UPDATES:

Added a more stylish look to the guide; included more in-depth strategies.

EDIT:

I would like to hear the board's opnion on what i should add next, i want to add everything possible, but there are just some things that really don't matter.

also, frame data/hitboxes are coming soon.

thank you for your patience.

 

[asianaussie]

guide is getting better, but some things are really general

'all moves have little start-up lag'? Are we comparing everything to falcon punch? I would say 'majority', not 'all'.

There are lots of little nuances that this guide should contain because they won't really be anywhere else, like Mario's D-Tilt forward hitbox being longer than his D-Smash's.

Analyse in depth his more complex moves, like why and how his fireballs give defence (ie forces opponents to react in a certain way), the nuances of his tornado, his Up-B's weird double hitbox, etc.

Give at least a couple tips in each matchup to begin with, even subjective things you prefer to do are fine.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm writing some things on notepad as we speak and i'm just messing around in training mode.

and match-ups are next in line.

 

[NovaSmash]

y do ppl think running away and spamming fireballs for like 30 seconds is a good way to play mario, most ppl ive played cant even do basic uair combos.

 

[dandan]

y do ppl think running away and spamming fireballs for like 30 seconds is a good way to play mario, most ppl ive played cant even do basic uair combos.

i do not see how the two relate, you can wonder on the effectiveness of running away and spamming (which can be effective) but the other tech skills of players have nothing to do with the effectiveness of this tactic.

 

[th3kuzinator]

The two dont relate. Someone who patiently spams fireballs and then comes in at the right time to start a uair chain is really dangerous. Someone who lacks both of those aspects will be lacking as a good mario.

I honestly think that both are integral parts of playing mario. I myself need to use fireballs more often, I rarely even use them.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It depends on the situation.

let's say, you got a spammy pikachu who is spamming bair on dreamland.

you can't approach him, so the best option is to get him hit with a fireball and then find your chance to attack.

now, let's say, pikachu has caught onto you and is now rushing you.

you should use fireballs to keep a safe enough distance between you and pikachu until you find a chance to attack.

you can even use a well-timed fireball to suspend someone mid-air, if you're lucky, you can get a uair.

and replying to your uair comment nova, uair chanings are simple in retro-spective but it depends on alot of factors.

you can't start a uair combo with a utilt at say.. 10%. you could start one at 20%-50% though.

if you get it down right, dair uair is the best option for starting an uair combo.

i sometimes just try to do a sh ff uair if he's at a high enough percentage, this works also.

there's alot of factors in uair chaining, hitlag and how long it lasts, the spacing between you and the opponent mid-air, etc. etc.

edit: i apologize for not updating this, i've been busy.

DOUBLE EDIT: Updating every section of the guide now. realized how much more descriptive it could be.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Always use fireballs to pressure and limit your foe.

Always chain as many Uairs as you can (providing you're not ready for a finisher / set-up)

Always BackThrow when its the best choice

These are conditions if you want to win consistently with Mario.

Always have fun

 

[Korrupshen]

I myself need to use fireballs more often, I rarely even use them.

Yeah meh chu, maybe Fyahbwastah will lend me shum fyahballz nuuuu humoo

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Alright, there is one move that deserves it's own post.

MARIOS DAIR.

holy crap is this thing useful, it has a nice hitbox, can be used to spike, has a drill motion that is inescapable, basically starts every mario combo etc.

first off, let's start with what you can do with mario's dair.

Mario's dair can be setup to multiple things.

Dair>Uair
Dair>Usmash
Dair>Grab
Dair>Nair.
Dair>utilt
Dair>downb

Let's look at mario's Dair>Uair.

Mario's Dair>Uair is renowed as a tech skill, ergo, it's alot more complicated then it looks.

Mario's Dair>Uair involves 3 things:

Spacing
Timing
Canceling

You cannot simply just do a dair and then pull up and expect you will dair, no, it's more complicated then that.

lately, i've been tinkering in training mode, i noticed there are 3 yes, count them, 3 ways to do a mario dair>uair

1. Do a Dair, tilt yourself a little opposite of the direction your opponent is facing, do a uair before you land.

this method works, but it's not the best, i would only suggest using this method if you need room to breathe, which you usually won't.

2. Do a Dair, Tap up twice and press a during the dair, you should do a uair.

this way is easy, but spammable and wastes time, worst way to do the dair>uair in my opnion.

3. Do a dair, move yourself while in the dair, meaning drill the opponent forward, while still keeping full hitboxes on him, and keeping him in that drilled animation. then, pull of a uair.

this sounds like it doesn't work, but it does, i've tried it, and i love this method best, it might take you a minute to get it right, but it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

if you have trouble doing any of these, just combine them all, tilt yourself a little backward, while still going forward with the drill, tap up twice, insta uair.

so mister master of the dair>uair, what can you do now?

you can **** the living **** out of your opponent with consecutive dair>uair combos, that's what.

next up, Dair>Usmash and the rest.

Dair>Usmash is a killing move, and should really only be used when you're going for a kill, you can sometimes use it to start a uair chain, but that's your choice.

Dair>Grab can be used as a killing move too, but is mostly used to give breathing space, you can also use it in the **** tent with the dair to pull of wall throw action.

Dair>Nair is also a breathing room move, but can kill also.

Dair>utilt should be used at higher percentages only, it's a good juggler but doesn't have enough knockback to really keep someone in the air under 30ish%

Dair>downb can be used, but only if they don't catch it in time, professionals will just shake off the upb hitstun and sheild you then grab you.

Some other things to know:

Dair can be used as a gimp kill, if you dair someone while offstage, he will most likely be gimped.

also, you can keep on drilling him and then most likely recover.

I'll add dair combos soon.

THIS IS JUST A PREVIEW OF MY UPDATED GUIDE MORE TO COME SOON!