Match Up Export - King Dedede

[KoSa!]

Rules to follow

* Be polite even in a disagreement
* Realistic matchup ratios please
* Don't repeat things already said
* POST SHOULD BE MORE THAN TWO SENTENCE

20:80 King Dedede
Good thing King Dedede wasn't the villain in Donkey Kong Country.​

DK's Positives
Can kill Dedede easier than other characters
Can do combos
Dedede is slow
Downb

DK's Negatives
Chaingrab
Infinite
Projectiles
Ftilt
Hard to edgeguard
Dair and Uair
Good roll and spotdodge

Dos
Do space Bair and Ftilt correctly
Do try and keep the fight off the ground
Do stay close to the edges or on platforms
Do punish Dedede and punish hard

Don'ts
Don't approach
Don't sh double Bair
Don't stay close to him for too long, you will get grabbed
DON'T GET GRABBED

Summary
Most Dedede's will look at this mu and most liking go for the grab at every possible chance and they probably will get a grab. However you can still use this to your advantage, and hope that you out space him. But if you space badly they can shieldgrab and get a KO. When in the grab if infinities are allowed its over, if not get prepared for either a dthrow -> dtilt or fthrow. DI and try to recover and do your best to not get the landing lag on the upB. If you get the lag be prepared for the next series of dthrows. Hit and do as much damage as possible, don't get carried away and run.

Mid Range
Dedede's ftilt is the poke/spacer of choice on the ground, if you can PS it you might be able to grab. If so pummel -> cargo and dthrow off the stage. Now your in gimp mode don't go for broke bair or fair if it will hit. You can clash with your ftilt but its easier to shield it. If you can see it coming which isn't too difficult sh over and bair or uair. Doing this poorly can get you an utilt or worst shieldgrabbed.

Long Range
At longer ranges the waddle dee/doo and gordo become a problem. If you focus too much on them Dedede could creep up on you and get a grab, which won't be that bad if your close to the edge. Gordos are random and moves through the air completely different than the other two. Bat the dee and doo with ftilts and bairs but the moves can get stale this way. A good eye is needed for this part, cant just predict and bair a gordo.

Aerial
Your bair beats his bair, and his uair can hurt you when directly above him, and dair can eat shield and outrange you directly below him. If he wants to hit you with sh double bairs PS one and punish quickly.

Stages
The BBR recommended stages for 5 neutrals will be used for this section. (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283142) This section is based on what I would do and what could happen. Go for SV first if your 1P, they might go for yoshi's island and lylat. Then I suggest BF. If you are 2P they might go for yoshi's, then its based off of personal preference. Your best cps are brinstar, rc, japes, lylat,norfair, and yoshi's island. Ban FD.

Videos
Hato vs Kel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S90nFl4ohE
Ripple vs Lain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txhElWOIfXE
Ook vs Mike Haze http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbnTVF_CgEA

 

[t3h Icy]

We grab you, you lose.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Down B, is your best friend in this match up. Throw it at there whenever you think it will hit. However, you have to be careful, if the DDD see's you using it a lot, you might end up eating a gordo. The whole point of this match is to not get grabbed, and if you do which it is going to happen prepare to eat 30%.

Never do short hop double bair, or you will get grabbed. F-tilt can be shield grabbed if not spaced well. Mix up your approaches, bair -> airdodge, bair -> jump, bair -> forward b, run -> down b, grounded upb.

What DDD's like to do is camp on the edge of the stage so if they get a grab they can CG you across the entire stage. If you see a DDD doing this approach with grounded up b to push him off the stage and possibly get some damage. When DDD is off the stage and in the air, we can beat him. Our back air is better, it has quite a bit more range, so we can space it properly. Keep pressure on the DDD when he is offstage so he has to recover with his upb. Then punish him.

This is definitly a tough match up, 35:65 DDD favor imo

 

[KoSa!]

ripple said he beats dededes except the almighty lains. i was testing the bairs of both of them and they do the same damage but dks has more range and comes out slower. it also looks like it has more knockback but dedede has more jumps and can hop around doing bairs better.

icy i should report that post, just follow the rules.'

if there isnt anything new to add to this mu ill go ahead and do the summary.

 

[Scabe]

We grab you, you lose.

Posts should be more than two lines. I'd infract you but you got a clean record so take this as a warning to not do it again.

I've got some questions that'll probably already answered in my quotes:

What's DDD's main killing moves?
What are the neutrals you should aim for, and strike?
What stages should you ban for the counterpick?
What stages should DK go to for the counterpick?
How do we deal with Gordos?

Here's a useful thread on how to avoid the infinite: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213682

Another thread where they've gone and discussed DDD lots of useful posts: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263849

The threads you put in the OP some of them weren't discussing Dedede at all, so I think you should take the ones not discussing DDD out..

Anyways now for quotes:

King Dedede (pages 4-6)

Dedede is probably the most used DK counterpick you will see, so it's a good thing to know how to beat him. His infinite grab alone can win the match for him, and if you happen to run into a Dedede who can do this consistently from 0%-death, I would suggest keeping a secondary who is good against DDD. Even without the infinite, he still does pretty well against DK.

Dedede's advantages
-Infinite throw can take DK from 0% to KO.
-Chain throw can rack up damage on DK as well.
-Dthrow has some nasty tech options.
-Gordos can be difficult to deal with.
-Ftilt range is annoying.
-Can be hard to edgeguard.
-U/Dair hake priority over DK aerials.

DK's advantages
-DK can get good reliable kills on Dedede.
-Dedede is a good size/weight for combos with Utilt/Uair/Usmash.

Overview

First thing first. Whenever you're playing a Dedede, assume that they can and will grab you at every available opportunity. As such you're going to have to keep your spacing game tight. Always hit your Bairs and Ftilts at the tip. If you get in too deep, you will be shield grabbed. If your opponent gets overly shield grab happy, a SH Bair, >B can wear down or even break a shield, and if they grab too soon, it will bury them. Don't expect this to work more than a few times though. If it gets predictable, they can spot dodge/roll the headbutt and punish you in the lag.

If you happen to get grabbed, you're in for a ride. If they can standing infinite, they will, and there's nothing you can do about it except pray they mess up while you hold shield and mash away from him. If they chaingrab you, they will usually do so to the edge then Dtilt you away. Make sure you don't mash jump and lose your DJ because you may need it to recover. Be careful not to tech into Dedede, as if you tech into him to escape the chainthrow, he gets a free D or Fsmash.

Dedede's love to spotdodge/roll a lot, and his roll/dodge is good. Jab combo works well to punish it, as does Down and UpB.

A little farther back than grab range, you'll have to contest with D3's Filt. It's just as fast as yours, with a little more range and priority. Your Ftilt can cancel this, but IMO it's easier to either shield or try to jump over it with Bair. Just be careful about jumping into Dedede as you can either eat an Utilt or get shield grabbed.

At far range you have to deal with Waddle Dee/Doo/Gordo. Waddle Dee/Doo are easy to Ftilt, Bair, or Dash attack through, so they aren't much of a problem. Just make sure if there's a Doo out (the eyeball one) to avoid it or KO it, as it can shock you with electricity and give D3 some free hits. Don't get too comfortable canceling out WDees, always be on your guard. If you try to Bair anticipating a WDee and a Gordo comes out, you're boned. What I try to do is jump towards D3, Bair if he tosses a WDee, if it's a Gordo, airdodge. Sounds easy enough but it requires some fast reflexes. Another thing I don't see many people do vs. Dedede is use his WDees to recover stale moves. Every time you hit a WDee, you deplete that move and gain strength back on your other ones. So if you take a second to jab or Tilt a WDee, you can gain some extra knockback/damage on Bair or your smashes.

In the air, D3 can be some trouble. Dedede has his own double Bair, but it has much less range than yours and lags a lot more after the second. You can block the first Bair and then Utilt/Dsmash, but you have to be quick or you may eat the second Bair. Perfect shield helps a lot here. If you try approaching him from above or below, his Uair and Dair both take priority over DK's attacks and they hurt. At low % you can usually Uair combo him well, but once you get to mid and high % he can usually break out with a jump and/or Dair.

After you get him off the stage, your usual Bair and Fair hits work about the same. Your Bair will outrange Dedede's, but you can be hit out by a well spaced Fair from Dedede. Be careful about coming in from above or below so as not to eat the Uair/Dair. Also, watch out for inhale. Sometimes Dedede will inhale near the edge, then spit you out under the stage. Don't waste your DJ. When he spits you under the stage, DI towards the edge. You shoot out and then up after the star spit, so when you start to fall, use your DJ then UpB to the edge an you'll hopefully make it. If Dedede uses his UpB, he's very vulnerable. If he doesn't cancel it, you can get to where he will land, then jump over the stars and punch, or SideB then punch. Just make sure to stand to the side and not under him. If you do end up under him, you can SA punch through, but it's best to be to the side and jumpover the stars to avoid damage. If he cancels, dash in and feel free to hit him with whatever. I recommend >B.

Stages to avoid
-Frigate Orpheon: Dedede can recover here much better than DK can, so don't give him that advantage.

-Stages with walkoff edges (BoE, Castle Siege, parts of Delfino): Dedede can KO DK off the side easy with chaingrabs.

Other than that, DK doesn't have many stage weaknesses. Just avoid anything you feel uncomfortable with.

Stages to counterpick
-Rainbow Cruise: This stage keeps the fight moving so you don't have to worry about infinites and chainthrows as much. DDD and DK are fairly evenly matched in the air, so RC makes it more of an even matchup.

-Battlefield: Platforms help DK here, as they allow DK to keep D3 off the ground and away from his grabs.

VS King Dedede
10/90
- Bend over.
- Honestly, you should have a secondary for this guy.
- Are you listening?
- Okay, okay: Only fight if walking/infinite CG is banned.
- Keep him in the air as much as possible. Get him off stage and edge guard AGGRESSIVELY.
- Don't be afraid to run, make him come to you. If you are winning, abuse your superiour mobility.
- CP platform stages to avoid the CG.
- Abuse his Up B landing lag with a short hop Headbutt. If he fumbles, you can fully charge F/D Smash or 9 Wind him.
- Only well spaced Tilts and Rising Bairs are safe on block!

King Dedede

This is the 4th match-up that DK has the upper hand in. stay ahead in % and forward tilt his minions that he throws at you except for Gordo(the spiked one). Make them approach you and punish accordingly. DDD has some good reach and priority with some of his moves especially his over tilt. use your down-b as a spacer and forward tilt as a spacer that knocks them horizontally, whichever is your preference to kill someone, bair or Uair. Uair is probably a better choice in this match-up because of DDD's horizontal recovery is quite good. Also with DDD's slow *** and his lag it is easier to use your smashes, go for more F-smashes and ....you know what; just use every smash more often. Bair to down smash or over smash is the best combo you have against DDD at low %. Another combo that is highly effective at very low percent is d-throw to F-tilt or even a DK punch if you want to mix it up. Just don't get grabbed yourself, if you do happen to get grabbed expect the D-throw. As it turns out, DDD can chain grab DK without even moving(Gay) which moves the favor of this match-up to DDD a tremendous amount. DON"T GET GRABBED OR IT'S AN AUTOMATIC STOCK LOSS

Edit:

Videos!
Hato DK vs Kel DDD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S90nFl4ohE
Ripple DK vs Lain DDD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txhElWOIfXE
Ook DK vs MikeHaze DDD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbnTVF_CgEA

 

[KoSa!]

well this about sums it up, scabe if only i could be like you.

 

[Scabe]

It's so good to have all the old threads to look at if it weren't for that I'd have no contribution at all.

 

[Seton]

I'm lucky coz we usually ban DDD's infinity chaingrab in Spain. Unlucky, there are more things that make DDD dangerous. Normal chaingrab make a 30% of damage froms side to side. He's bair has a lot of range and is really spameable. Dk's better aproach is spaced bair and and Bdown. u have to be pacient and defensive against this matchup. Ban and strike FD and try to play in a platform stage. BF and Sv are good stages to play against D3. Don't worry if he CP's Delfino or Castle Siege, just only fight in the platforms in not edged areas.

40-60 D3's favor

 

[Chaosgriffin]

I like picking Norfair for this fight, if it is allowed.

 

[¿Qué?]

Actually, when DDD throws the little ******* you can use them too refresh your kill moves.

 

[Ripple]

play this match up just like you should play against ICs. hit and run always

 

[KoSa!]

ICs are easier. ftilt is safer, dtilt and downb are usable. Sometimes a grounded upb can get nana and stop a cg. and our air game beats thiers. cargo stage spike nana all the time lol. also they are easier to gimp.

 

[Silfa]

ftilt is dangerous if you don't space it well.

Like ripple said, hit and run is probably the best thing you can do. Get whatever damage you can safely and then get out of there. DDD wants you near him and if you hang around in that range and make a mistake or simply get grabbed it's not fun.

 

[¿Qué?]

ftilt is dangerous if you don't space it well.

Like ripple said, hit and run is probably the best thing you can do. Get whatever damage you can safely and then get out of there. DDD wants you near him and if you hang around in that range and make a mistake or simply get grabbed it's not fun.

Yeah, think of it like this. DDD Has a DK fetish that Donkey Kong isn't really into. Hit and run.

My Donkey Kong learned his lesson. :|

 

[wwwilliam0024]

I find the DK vs DDD tough! but not as tough as you mention, indeed we are ****ed if we touch the ground or get grabbed, and maybe if were trying to get back... lol, but its all a matter of patience and taking advantage of situations.

First of all you need a stage with platforms. Once there you must charge your Punch and be ready to deal damage, i propose you sh Bair, WITHOUT LANDING ON THE GROUND, use your double jump to get up on the platform again. If you find DDD at far distances use your DownB to get some damage in and to get him in the Air, if you ever see DDD in the Air, GO for the juggle!!! if he dodges your attack just double jump to a near platform and be patience.

If by some reason you are out of Jumps and you are going to land on the stage, if a platform is near do an UpB towards it, if you cant UpB to a platform try footstooling DDD, works fine , instead of air dodging to the ground (it will only get you grabbed) foot stool him to an extra jump. it works

Now a reason why i deal more % is because i actually use myself as bait for the DDD...
Yes it hasnt always gone right and in minor cases it can cost me a stock, but heres the deal:

I tend to play a little on the ground, to punish DDD, for example, If you go running towards a DDD, he might dodge or even grab, so i try to move as fast as possible making him think im going for an attack, and once he dodges i DownB and get him in the air, since the DownB doesnt put him high enough in the air, I KNOW that i wont be able to juggle him, but my opponent doesnt know that and he cant do anything from that distance in the air to punish me, so He dodges, Just what i wanted! I grab him and throw him up once more, where the altitude is decent for a few juggles, once hes got over 80%, its time to tease his mind, i jump over him right above, and wait for his reaction, of course if he Utilts me or attacks he shall succeed, but the idea is to bait him, making him think youre gonna attack, if he dodges, he shall get DK punched!! If he shields i can SideB to break it or atleast take most of it away.

Im just giving ideas of what i normally do, but you got to be very aware of what youre doing, the smallest error or miss read will get you grabbed/punished/killed.


When DDD is recovering, ****ing attack!! His double jumps are small, and if hes below the stage DO GO FOR A FOOTSTOOL! it should take him lower making his UpB make it right to edge, where you should punish hard!! :D

Anything else i shall post later on

 

[Supreme Dirt]

This MU literally makes me cry.

I'd actually never play this out as Dedede. Seriously, I'd play you guys as Lucas before I went Dedede on you. A good choice of action, seriously, is try and time them out. If you don't have a LGL to contend with, abuse the fact, since DK has pretty good planking. Don't get too greedy with it, Dedede CAN beat your planking pretty well.

Make sure that you're on a stage where you can remain in the air pretty much the whole game. MAKE SURE THE DEDEDE DOESN'T HAVE GRAB ARMOUR. YOU WANT PORT PRIORITY.

That's about all I have to say. Make sure your spacing is flawless, or you will get grabbed.

Seriously, **** this MU. It's so painful to watch.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

I find it Fun and challenging :3

ill see if i get a replay of this MU. :3

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I find it Fun and challenging :3

ill see if i get a replay of this MU. :3

Bro, you're crazy.