Melee Arcade Stick & Theory-craft

[Foxy_Faux]

Hey everyone, I want to preface this by stating that I know there have been various threads regarding Smash related Arcade Sticks in the past on smash boards as well as other forums. The goal here is to reopen the discussion regarding arcade sticks in relation to Smash due to the rise of the Smashbox & Hax$ b0xx in terms of the quest for the ultimate ergonomic controller, in addition to us stepping into a new era of melee with dolphin net play. Thus I thought it fitting to bring back relevant information and ideas regarding building custom arcade sticks, or discussing experiences with already commercially available arcade sticks compatible with smash whether it be via gamecube cable or usb-pc connectivity.

I am a monthly melee tournament hosting TO based out of San Bernardino in the Inland Empire region of Southern California. I myself own a few commercially available gamecube compatible arcade sticks which I hope to modify in the future as well as build my own specifically with the release of the IST Makestick Enclosure available on Focus Attack. My hope is to track my own projects as TheBlackHombre did on his arcade stick projects through the steady updating of this thread in a biweekly rhythm. Needless to say I'd love anyone else's ideas or participation in terms of experience with your controllers or 3rd party gamecube arcade sticks or pc arcade stick play on dolphin. Below will be an evolving list of links to other relevant Smash Arcade stick discussions, it should clean up as we go.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3AUEcGN2Zs - Kaiza's Smash Arcade Stick Button Mapping Musings
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3zb1dy/arcade_stick_for_smash_bros/
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/42690/smash-bros-now-playable-on-arcade-stick
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discuss...-arcade-stick-update-seimitsu-ls-64-in-action
https://smashboards.com/threads/theblackhombre-smash-arcade-stick-demonstration.414520/
https://smashboards.com/threads/melee-project-fight-stick.315481/
https://smashboards.com/threads/super-smash-bros-and-arcade-sticks.259488/
https://smashboards.com/threads/melee-with-a-fight-stick.241359/
https://smashboards.com/threads/ssbm-ssbb-arcade-style-controller.120457/

 

[Foxy_Faux]

Here are some 3rd party options for gamecube compatible arcade sticks. I have some experience with all of the below except the hori soul caliber 2 stick. All of the others have switches that allow for the stick to be read as left analog stick and toggle between dpad, c-stick, or any combination thereof. Additionally, Pelican has gamecube specific versions of each of their sticks, but they are harder to come by.

Logic3 Gamecube Arcade Stick:
This particular stick has a mode switch to swap between stick and dpad functions. The buttons directly press against a circuit board that sits under which means it would require soldering/rewiring modifications to experiment with the button layout. A major downside about the pcb is that it is not recognized, and therefore unusable on Nintendo wiis.
Ergonomically the button layout is rather awkward and the buttons themselves are incredibly stiff. The stick is also registered digitally, so you are limited to the 4 cardinals and 4 corners.

Nuby Soul Calibur 2 Universal Arcade Stick:
This stick is interesting in that the stick itself feels like it interprets inputs in analog vs digital signal. The buttons are unfortunately sort of weirdly stiff, there are light presses on them as well but i haven't found them to be that consistent yet. As you can see in the image the button layout is also awkward because jump and shield buttons are all at the top with A,B and Z on the bottom which woulg make it difficult to do aerials, L cancels, and jump cancelled grabs. unless you do aerials/L cancels with Z, which means it's more difficult to play Link, Young Link, or Samus.

Hori Soul Calibur 2 Arcade Stick

Pelican Universal Arcade Stick/Real Arcade Universal Stick

Pelican Real Arcade Gamecube Arcade Stick:
This looks rather similar to the Pelican Stick just above it but has purple accents and has only 7 face buttons, excluding a start and mode button in the upper right corner. The mode button allows switching between analog, dpad, and c-stick functions. Additionally this arcade stick is recognized by wiis and therefore usable on modified versions of melee and project m.

 

[iAmMatt]

I've played melee with a joystick before, and let me tell you it sucks. While the mechanics of the joystick I was playing with were nowhere near as small as the mechanics of traditional arcade sticks, I can't imagine it would be too different.

 

[Foxy_Faux]

It's all good, I wanted to take on a custom arcade stick for smash on as a personal project before smashbox was a thing, but didn't have the financial means and am just going to take it on little by little now. In my opinion functionality will come first at least on a casual side. It may be presumptuous of me, but as many options as there are available on a GC controller, the players that can accurately make use of them effectively and appropriately are few and far between. So limiting the specific input options isn't necessarily a bad thing in terms of this project, so long as it operates in a bare bones competitive style. People tend to generalize and buy into the idea that we need all the Firefox angles (or just Fox) to consider an alternate controller viabl, but that discredits other characters in the game. Thus projects like this may lead to different approaches to the game that may help those under valued characters, whether it comes from people designing the controllers, or players from other fighting game backgrounds that may need an arcade style or hitbox style medium to bridge the game and make it more accessible to them.

If you remember which kind of arcade stick you used I'd like to know, our of curiosity.

 

[iAmMatt]

If you remember which kind of arcade stick you used I'd like to know, our of curiosity.

Wasn't an arcade stick as much as it was a joystick. It was similar to this hunk of plastic. If you use an arcade stick for your controller you'll need to have a tilt button available, which might be hard to incorporate since arcade sticks require most of the hand's attention.

 

[Foxy_Faux]

Even if there isn't a tilt button available I would want to experiment with what an arcade stick is capable of in-game. Without a tilt button it just means tilt directions have to be buffered in between another input like a jab or after a jump, almost like the opposite of charge partitioning with a charge character in a traditional fighter. I'm not saying I need this to be the ultimate competitive controller, it may eventually get there, for now it just needs to work and I can consult with other technical forums to see about what modifications I can implement to make it better. Like just messing with a quality arcade stick on melee would give me an idea of the tradeoffs it offers and where to find the minimal modifications needed to make it competitive, and then eventually maybe the maximum, even if it takes hardcore hardware modifications and pad hacking over the pre installed pcbs. I know for the most part this stuff can be tested using dolphin emulator but I don't have a computer at the moment I will just be documenting via my phone.


Using the above method, I would like to modify the input setup on my Pelican gamecube arcade stick to look like this on the button side (using directional inputs as button presses in addition to the arcade stick directional inputs)

(R) - (Up) - (Left) - (Right)
(A) - ( B ) - (Down)

The ideas behind this are mostly theoretical and based on the Pelican Gamecube stick only having 7 buttons and Kaiza's simplification of Smash as a 4 button game, but replacing X/Y inputs as an up input. The need for an X button is redundant because Up directional input does the same thing as well as doubling as an input for DI. Thus the need for C stick buttons, though it would be nice may as well just be directional inputs that can be hit in tandem with the A button to serve as a pseudo c stick. Additionally this would help with DI/SDI, pivoting and movement in terms of neutralizing opposite directional inputs, buffering a directional input for a tilt in the midst of another action, and theoretically, maybe extending the 8 given angles (4 cardinal + 4 diagonal) to a potential 16. (However I don't know whether or not this is technically possible) Thus being a mix between a traditional arcade stick an the "Box" style sticks. or being able to play Melee 1 handed even. This is all theory craft along the lines of minimalism in inputs for a useable smash arcade stick.