Mind Over Meta #41 - Stages, Part 2: The Stagelist!

Mind Over Meta is a weekly series of articles on /r/SSBPM, the Project M subreddit. Written by several different authors, this series covers many of the mental aspects of playing smash and other subjects related specifically to Project M. This week user L_Pag wrote about stages. The original article can be found here. To read the rest of the series check out the Mind Over Meta Archive. Sit down, read, and enjoy.

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Hello again, and welcome to the second part of our three article feature about stages! This week, L_Pag will be talking about specific stages and their properties, how to use them, stage bans, and legal stages. The article this week is quite a whopper, perhaps our longest yet, so be prepared. Let’s jump right in!

GAME AND WATCH HAMMERS?​

The idea of picking stages is something that comes up only in platform fighters, like Smash Bros. As stated in last week’s article, stages provide a whole new depth to the game, as most stages will provide a benefit to you or the opponent, based on your characters or personal preference. So, how do you decide which stages are going to be played in a match?

First off, that depends on the stage list. A stage list, in it’s most basic form, is a list of which stages you’re allowed to play on in a tournament. Stage lists consist of three categories (not including doubles only stages): Neutral stages, which is where the first game of every set is played, Counterpicks, which is a larger list of stages that is opened up for selection after game 1, and banned stages, which unless both players agree to it, are not allowed to be played on in a tournament match. These lists differ from tournament to tournament and region to region, but the general consensus for Project M is as follows: Green Hill Zone, Smashville, Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium 2, and Delfino’s Secret (usually the 5 stages in the middle of the bottom row) as the Neutral stages, and then Dreamland, Yoshi’s Story, Warioland, Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi’s Island, and Distant Planet as Counterpicks. The most variance in stage lists come from the counterpicks, as many regions and tournaments use different counterpicks. You can usually expect somewhere between 4 and 6 counterpicks, although most stage lists at recent large tournaments seem to favor 4 counterpicks.

Now, onto picking the actual stages. For Project M, there is a “ban system” in place. Essentially, the ban system allows players to strike off stages to narrow down the stage list, preventing any hard counters from the opponent. The ban system starts out with striking neutral stages before game 1. After both players have chosen their characters, they decide who will strike first. This is usually done with a simple game of rock paper scissors, but there are some people who prefer some different methods, such as Game and Watch hammers (highest number strikes first). After this is decided, the player who strikes first will strike one of the 5 neutral stages. Then, the player who strikes second will ban 2 more stages, and finally, the player who strikes first will strike one of the last two stages, deciding where the match will be played. After game 1, the winner will then strike 2 or 3 stages (this number depends on the stage list and rules of the current tournament, and how many counterpicks are available), and then the loser will pick the stage. After this, the players will go back to the character select and the winner will select his character, followed by the loser doing the same.

Now that we’ve got all that cleared up, ONTO THE STAGES!

NEUTRAL STAGES​

Neutral stages are… well, neutral. They generally provide an even playing field for most characters, making them the go to stages for game 1. With that in mind, neutrals can still provide a huge advantage to some characters and should always be considered when counterpicking.

BATTLEFIELD

• medium blast zones
• medium ceiling
• medium size
• 3 platforms (arranged in a triangle, 2 on the bottom, one on top)
• No defined walls

Battlefield is one of three stages that is considered by many to be “the most neutral stage”. With its medium size, most characters don’t gain a distinct advantage from having large hitboxes. The platforms allow for fast movement for mixups and getaway options with wavelanding, as well as overall mixups.They also create a sort of cage around the center stage, so controlling center stage is extremely important in most matches played on this stage. Controlling center stage allows for fast coverage of the left and right sides of the stage, and can also be important for characters who can poke the through the bottom of platforms with tilts or aerials, like Marth.

As for recovery, the medium blast zones of the stage can keep that aspect fairly even as well. The platforms being close to the edge also provide new options for many characters recovering, as many characters have horizontal recoveries that can edge cancel on platforms, or vertical recoveries that can be used to land on top of the platforms as a mixup. The lack of walls on this stage will hurt some characters with a wall jump, but also make the option of recovering under the stage available to many characters.

Overall, this is a very neutral stage. Some characters will still gain a clear advantage on it, such as Ganon or Bowser, thanks to their ability to control center stage and strong platform movement. Pick this stage if you benefit from platforms, or just have an easy time controlling center stage.

SMASHVILLE

• medium blast zones
• medium ceiling
• medium-large size
• one platform (moves from left to right across the stage, extends off stage)
• no defined walls

Like Battlefield, Smashville is considered to be one of the three most neutral stages, but for different reasons. The age old argument of Final Destination being the most neutral stage has never really been true, as the lack of platforms gives a huge advantage to some characters and a huge disadvantage to others. Smashville attempts to alleviate this by adding a moving platform to the mix, which can prevent chain grabs, allow for quick escape options and combo extensions, and enable mixups, but all depending on stage position. The length of the stage also benefits characters with good projectiles, or just characters who are considered to be “campy”. As stated before, however, the moving platform allows many character to break free of projectile lockdown by supplying a new escape option as it passes. The lack of vertical platforms also allow for characters with multiple jumps to be much safer in the air, making air camping a viable option for them.

Some characters can also benefit from controlling the platform. You can use the platform as a sort of umbrella, shielding you from certain projectiles and the aforementioned vertical approaches from air camping opponents. If you manage to get an opponent on top of the platform, you can often fight them for control of the platform, or better yet, tech chase them. The platform's size, although larger than most, still greatly limits tech options, making tech options fairly easy. If you manage to tech chase someone all the way to the end of the platform’s path (or you just happen to be on the platform at this time), you can knock them straight into the blast zone thanks to the platform’s extension off stage

Recovery on this stage is fairly simple, but has a new added depth with the moving platform. If the platform is not close to the side of the stage you’re attempting to recover from, there aren’t many mixups you can do while recovering that use the stage, making edge guards very simple. However, if the platform is off stage with you, it supplies you with several new options. In some cases, all it takes is a double jump or an air dodge to reach the platform, in other cases, you can simply up b to it. The platform can also act as a distraction to your opponent, as most people tend to cover the option of recovering to the platform more than they do the ledge.

Overall, Smashville is a pretty safe pick for most characters, but can still have it’s drawbacks. It gives projectile based characters more power thanks to its narrow escape options, and even with the platform, dealing with air campy characters can prove to be difficult.

POKEMON STADIUM 2

• medium blast zones
• low ceiling
• medium-large size
• 2 platforms (one on the left side and on the right)
• no defined walls*

The third of the three stages to be considered “The Most Neutral Stages”. PS2’s platforms allow for combo extensions, quick movement options, and great mixups, but don’t do much to dictate the match. This stage generally benefits characters with a strong dash dance, or characters with a strong projectile game. The low platforms make coverage pretty easy for projectile characters, and aren’t high enough to prevent dash dance/spacing-based characters from reaching you. Similar to Smashville, air camping can also be pretty viable here, but the two stationary platforms allow for coverage from vertical attacks. The low ceiling gives a clear advantage to characters with vertical kill power, such as Fox or Pikachu.

The recovery aspect of this stage is pretty simple. The only walls on this stage are near it’s center, under the ledge, so there really aren’t many characters who will benefit from that. The platforms aren’t close enough to the ledges to provide new options to most characters.

Overall, Pokemon Stadium 2 tends to be very neutral for characters who don’t have a strong projectile or spacing game, but besides that, can lean in some character’s favors (especially Samus, with her ability to platform cancel her missiles with ease here). Go here if you have a strong spacing/dash dance game, solid projectile game, or can kill off the top easily.

GREEN HILL ZONE

• small blast zones
• medium-high ceiling
• small size
• 1 Platform (swings across the stage in a parabola)
• walls

Green Hill Zone is a bit of an odd case for a stage. It’s pretty small, so normally, characters with large hitboxes would dominate, but that isn’t necessarily the case. The moving platform tends to break up a lot of the action, and allows smaller, faster characters to platform camp. The platform also allows for combo extension to get some early kills off the top, or to escape combos when the platform swings down towards the center of the stage. Despite the platform's intervention, characters with larger hitboxes still benefit quite a lot from this stage.

Recovery on this stage isn’t really anything special. The platform allows for some new options, but not as often as it would on Smashville, since the platform is so high when it goes near the ledge. The walls on the sides of this stage provide a new option to a lot of characters who have wall jumps, but can also be used to DI into and tech the stage in some situations.

Overall, GHZ still greatly benefits characters who have large hitboxes. The stage also benefits characters with weak horizontal recovery, thanks to it’s small blastzones and high ceiling. Go here if you’re a fatty, have poor recovery, or are Ike.


DELFINO’S SECRET

• medium blast zones
• high ceiling
• large size
• 3 platforms (constantly changing formation)
• walls

Delfino’s size and platforms put this stage in a bit of a strange place. The large size would generally benefit characters with a strong projectile game, but the platforms allow for dynamic movement and escape options. The platforms also allow for combo extension, movement, mix ups, etc... , all depending on what formation they’re in. The constant changing also means constant adaptation, so characters with more versatile playstyles will feel right at home here. Characters with a strong dash dance game can also put in work here, thanks to the stage’s large size. The stage’s high ceiling will also make it a good pick against characters who can kill off the top easily.

Similar to GHZ, recovery is nothing special here. The platforms don’t often arrange themselves in a formation that’ll help with recovery. The stage’s walls will lend a lot of characters a hand with recovery, though.

Overall, the concept of this stage is fairly similar to GHZ. It generally benefits characters with projectiles, but the platforms can make it easy to escape, while GHZ benefits characters with larger hitboxes and has a platform that breaks up the action. Pick this stage if you have a good projectile/dash dance game and don’t wanna die off the top.

COUNTERPICKS​

This is where things get interesting. Counterpicks aren’t really made to be neutral in any way, so they generally lean towards one type of character’s advantage.

DREAMLAND

• large blast zones
• extremely high ceiling
• large size
• 3 platforms (arranged like battlefield, but spaced farther apart)
• no defined walls

This stage has been the definitive example of a stage that benefits one type of character since Melee. The large stage benefits projectile characters, and the large blast zones and ceiling benefit floaties and characters with good recoveries. The large platforms tend to act similarly to those on Battlefield, encouraging the control of center stage. The platforms are also slightly higher than most stages, so they can also be used for some combo extensions that’ll be harder to escape. If you’re not playing as or against a projectile character, dash dancing characters can also be pretty good here. Recovery on this stage also tends to be pretty simple, but similarly to Battlefield, platforms can provide some more options.

Overall, this stage HEAVILY benefits floaties and projectile characters. Basically, don’t let Peach or Samus go here.

YOSHI’S STORY

• small blast zones
• extremely low ceiling
• small size
• 3 platforms (arranged like Battlefield), and Randall
• walls

Yet another great example of a stage that benefits one type of character. This stage is the polar opposite of Dreamland, supporting larger characters with larger hitboxes. The platforms on this stage act very similar to how the platforms on Battlefield do, but they’re a bit lower and smaller, so some characters can cover platforms much easier, especially Marth. Characters with strong movement options can benefit here however, as they can move across the stage extremely quickly, and move across the platforms pretty fast as well.

Recovery on this stage is strange. You won’t go very far thanks to the blast zones, so the walls aren’t exactly going to make or break your recovery. This gets interesting with the addition of Randall, however. Randall opens up a plethora of recovery options. Similar to the Smashville platform, you can jump on top of, air dodge onto, or platform cancel off of Randall. If you’re good enough, you can even air dodge onto him as he appears. Also, quick rule of thumb: When the “tens” part of the seconds timer is on an even number and the “ones” of the seconds hits 5, Randall will appear from the right side of the stage, and when the tens spot is odd, Randall will appear from the left side when the ones hits 5.

Overall, if you’re playing a large character with larger hitboxes, or just have large platforms in general, go here. If neither you or your opponent are playing those characters, but you have good movement, this can also be a good option.

WARIOLAND

• extremely small blast zones
• small ceiling
• small size
• 4 platforms (two large on either side, with one small platform above each of them)
• walls

This stage is pretty similar to Yoshi’s Story in terms of size. The platforms, however, are very unique. Their placement benefits control of center stage possibly even more than the stages on Battlefield do thanks to their strictly vertical arrangement. When you’re on top of one of the platforms on Warioland, you can really only go up or down. Characters with larger hitboxes can punish you for trying to approach from above or jumping across to the other platform. The platform placement also benefits vertical combos by giving you the options of wavelanding on the platforms to gain leverage, or forcing an opponent into a tech situation on top of them. Considering the extremely small size of the top platforms, covering tech options can be extremely easy.

As for recovery, the walls and the platforms on this stage allow you to mix up your recovery in a lot of different ways. The small size of this stage will limit your chances at recovery, however.

Overall, this stage is great for characters who can control center stage, and bad for characters who have good strong recoveries and projectile games.

FINAL DESTINATION

• medium-large blast zones
• low-ish ceiling
• large size
• no platforms
• no defined walls

Final Destination is a stage that many new players will see as the most neutral stage, but it is far from it. The lack of platforms, while preventing some characters from gaining an advantage from them, allows for some characters to gain tons of stage control. Characters with good dash dances and characters with projectiles can do some great work here, as there are no platforms to escape to. The lack of platforms can also benefit characters that can air camp and come down on opponents with vertical approaches, such as Charizard or Dedede. Characters who can juggle others for their combos will also do great here, as there are no platforms to escape to. On that note, FD is a great stage for characters who can chain grab. I’d talk about recovering on this stage, but recovering really doesn’t get any simpler than FD, as there’s no platforms or other forces that could help with your recover.

Overall, FD isn’t the best stage for most characters, but provides clear advantages to characters who can camp or chain grab. Avoid going here against Marth, particularly as a fastfaller.

FOUNTAIN OF DREAMS

• small-medium blast zones
• medium ceiling
• small size
• 3 platforms (arranged like Battlefield, but they sink into the ground every few seconds)
• walls*

FoD is another special case. This stage is a lot like Battlefield/Yoshi’s Story, but with the new dynamic of moving platforms. The platforms will drop pretty low and close to the stage, so some characters can use this to their benefit. A lot of people like this stage, like Luigis or Squirtles, because the low platforms allow them to quickly waveland across them and throw out aerials, while still being able to hit most grounded opponents. Characters with strong multi hit moves can also benefit from the low platforms, as they can use them to hit people on and off of low platforms, often making them safe on shield (Peach’s down smash is a great example). Besides that, most characters who would benefit from Yoshi’s Story will benefit here, but the larger blast zones will mean you’ll have to rely on edge guards a bit more.

As for recovery, the only dynamic besides the platform is the stage’s walls. The shape of the walls on this stage allow you to wall jump, but many characters will find it difficult to do so at certain points of the stage (usually where the bowl hits the stand)

Overall, this stage is a great counterpick for specific characters, characters with fast platform movement, or anyone who would benefit from Yoshi’s Story.

YOSHI’S ISLAND

• medium blast zones
• medium ceiling
• large size
• 1 platform (not including the blaargwiches)
• walls

Yoshi’s Island is another unique stage. It’s a large stage with one large platform in the center of the stage that tilts. The tilting of the platform can have some similar effects to FoD’s raising and lowering platforms, as one end of the platform can be extremely low, while the other can be higher. This can be used for combo extensions, platform camping, escaping, mixups, etc… Some may even consider this to be one of the most dynamic platforms in the game. Despite that, the platform doesn’t leave you many escape options from certain projectiles, depending on where it’s tilting. The shy guys that fly around on this stage can also be used to block projectiles, however. Characters that can poke through the platform can also be a huge threat on this stage. The large size also helps characters who can space well and have a strong dash dance.

Recovery on this stage is made unique with the addition of the blaargwiches. They can provide you with new options to recover by letting you land close to the ledge, saving you from falling, or refreshing your jumps. The wall on this stage also provides assurance for some characters if there is no blaargwich appearing. Pay attention to the white shy guys on the periphery of the stage -- they signal the approach of blaargwiches, which now appear regularly (unlike the random nature of the stage’s Brawl counterpart)!

Overall, this is a bit of a weird one. This stage benefits characters who can poke through platforms, characters that have strong platform movement, and characters with a good dash dance game.

DISTANT PLANET

• medium blast zones
• high ceiling
• large size
• 4 platforms (leaves drop when stood on)
• walls

This stage is similar to Delfino’s Secret in it’s size, but the platforms prevent it from being neutral. This stage heavily benefits projectile based characters with it’s platform layout. The platforms on the ends of the stage drop when stood on, preventing players from platform camping to avoid projectiles. Recovery on this stage is kept simple, but the leaf platforms can provide a new depth, as not only can they be used to recover onto, but the drop they take when someone lands on them can make recoveries a bit safer.

Overall, most characters who benefit from Delfino’s will benefit from this stage, but projectile based characters will benefit even more.

NORFAIR

• medium blast zones
• low-ish ceiling
• large size
• 2 platforms (moving and changing layout constantly)
• no defined walls

Similar to Delfino’s, this stage will benefit a lot of campy and spacing focused characters, but the platformers give the opponent a better a chance at escaping. Fast and dash dance based characters can also use this stage’s size and platforms to their advantage. Recovering on this stage can be interesting, with the platforms constantly changing position, but being close enough to the edge to recover onto at many times.

Overall, this stage is really similar to Delfino’s, but will probably favor dash dance and movement heavy characters more.

CONCLUSION​

Stages are an essential part of competitive Smash. They provide each player with distinct advantages and disadvantages, and knowing which one to pick is incredibly important.

Anyhow, join us next week for part three of our article series, where we’ll detail banned stages, why they're banned, and what can be done to make them competitively viable. Thanks to /u/orangegluon for editing and proofreading (he takes blame for any remnant mistakes)!

Until next time,

L_Pag & the Mind Over Meta team.

 

This really great information on stages especially on the pros and cons on stages both neutral and counter picks

 

It brings clarity in my mind to know that not every single stage in PM is legal/used in competitive play. Great stagelist, though!

 

SMASHVILLE

• medium-large size

POKEMON STADIUM 2

• medium-large size

YOSHI’S ISLAND

• large size

PS2 is nearly the widest stage, while SV/YI are right on par.