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MU Discussion: Falco

Zanx8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
419
I think we need to discuss this MU eventually...so why not now?

How do we win?
What do we watch out for?
Stages to BAN/CP?
Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
Videos?
MU classification?

Describe the MU using the following MU classifications:


Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage

I'd say it is a heavy advantage for Falco. (Sorry I messed up I was kinda tired while posting this XD) Ledge camping seems to help out in this MU.
 

DrSoussou

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 12, 2012
Messages
407
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SoFL / CFL
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2552-2785-0774
I'm hoping you meant to say "heavy advantage for Falco". I haven't played Samus at a high enough level to know first-hand, but comparing their strengths and weaknesses shows us a few glaring disadvantages. Basically, if you're playing against a Falco who's as skilled with their main as you are with yours, you're probably going to lose...unless you're Xyro, or something.

At long range, we have a disadvantage. Falco has a laser and a reflector, so he can control the pace with his faster projectile and send back whatever we're lucky enough to be able to return fire with. Thankfully lasers don't do that much damage, so our only hope to make that short-hopping freak stop is to interrupt him with zair and get in closer.

At mid-range we are probably about even, or at a slight advantage. This is where burst range mostly comes into play, in which case we have a strong dash-attack, short-hop zair, or even a grab if we use a prjectile to make Falco shield. However, he has a farther f-smash that will connect after a short dash, and his lasers can be used safely while our projectiles (except zair) are too slow to come out. He can also dash-grab us (which would be suicide for Samus), throw out a reflector (which trips at low percents and has deceptively-long range), or illusion past us and start spamming laser all over again.

Close-range and point-blank range are the main problem, because Falco has more than a heavy advantage, but at the same time this is our only way to really rack up damage and kill outside of a fully-charged charge shot, so we HAVE to go in close. Falco's jabs will put ours to shame. With their higher damage, faster startup, and multi-hit ability, Falco is sure to get the first hit and make it count. As if that weren't enough, Falco can easily jab combo into a chaingrab on Samus, who is heavy enough for at least three or four grabs. Our roll and spotdodge are garbage compared to his, so defense is a problem here as well.

The only way we win this matchup is to force Falco into the air as much as possible or onto a platform and rack damage quickly with strong combos that are short enough to avoid his Dair spike. Unfortunatly, his multi-hit fair and nair make it hard to start a juggle. At close range, we have to be perfect. We have to avoid being chaingrabbed while throwing in attacks like short-hop Dair, dash-attack follows, pivot-grabs (miracle), stutter f-smash, and falling Uairs/Nairs as much as possible.

We have a general advantage in our ability to KO. Generally, I'd say that both characters are poor stock-takers, but when compared side-by-side I think Samus comes out on top. We may only have Charge Shot, Dtilt, Dsmash, Fsmash, Utilt, Bair, or Dair, but Falco really only has his smashes, Bair, Dair, Utilt (maybe), and Uair. That slight edge as far as raw options combined with our higher weight-class and arguably better recovery are a big help in this matchup.

Ban FD, use Battlefield or PS1

Tips...lots of Zair (as usual), its your friend as far as getting in on Falco and like I said before, stopping laser spam. Also, like you said, plenty of ledge-camping. Tricks...if Falco is going to have to use Illusion to recover, the hitbox on Samus' meteor smash can usually catch him in the act since it lasts so long. Obviously, this requires timing, but it can also be used if he tries to illusion onstage. If that doesn't work, try to run off the map and steal the edge with a zaircovery. Stall with bomb-hopping if you need to get the timing right. This makes for a pretty salty gimp, and if you miss you should still be able to recover with screw.

Found this with a quick YT search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slUlZsCJLbc

This matchup is a clear Disadvantage for Samus at best. Probably a fair -3.
 

Sarix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
796
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Actually Falco shuts down Samus's long range spam game because his lases come out faster. Falco also rivals Samus in attack speed and actually is a bit faster than her in this department which is problematic for us. He has to walk to us to get the CG and it only works for 3 throws and thankfully not more.

Lasers: Smart Falcos will know how and when to camp us with lasers and Samus's best qualities are her projectile and air game, both of which are taken away. A solid ground game is needed for this MU because we don't have any other options. Shield dashing and power shield approaches are best for getting through the lasers as Samus has an above average sized shield and lasers don't whittle away much of shields. Once we're close in he has to stop firing lasers.

Falco Offstage

Offstage we definitely have the advantage on Falco given our floatiness, superior recovery, and great offstage options. If Falco is above us always keep in mind he likely will try to spike us so never forget that, even though our Uair hits at the same time the result would likely take a stock off us given how aerial priority functions. If Falco does his UpB he is very gimpable like Fox and a Nair will do just the trick if you're fast. I believe Nair and Fair can knock him out of phantasm.

If he knocks us offstage we need to be evasive with our recovery so he can't get a kill set-up on us. Save your jump via bomb jumping and when close to the stage jump and Zair if you can.

Spacing

Even though good spacing is already a must for Samus players it gets emphasized in this MU with how much it aids us. Space Fairs so that when you land you can maximize your options like:

- Jab Cancels
- Tilts
- Dsmash
- If you're really good, grab
- Zair
- Dash Attack

Use these to mix and match your pressure since projectiles are going to have limited use in this MU.

Ending Statements:

:samus2: Develop a strong ground game, it's a must.
:samus2: Learn to shield dash and power shield.
:samus2: Limit use of missiles and especially charge shot. (I'm not kidding)
:samus2: Use Zair appropriately, whiffing it will likely make us east a laser or two.
:samus2: Don't be too aggressive unless you're close to him - utilize shield pressure.

This MU is definitely not better than a -2 tops.
 

Zanx8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
419
That was a nice write up haha @ both of you. xD I won't have to use a lot of my bad input now. =P I do believe Samus can consistently edge guard Falco since his illusion can be covered by what Samus has to offer, and I know bombs, Nair, and charge shot trades or beats illusion. Not sure about everything else.
Edit: WTF Posted before me so I had to edit this twice >_>
 

Sarix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
796
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I haven't really played many falcos but the mentality for us is very similar to Peach's for the MU.

Edit: I forgot to mention that falco is a weight and fall speed class Samus can combo pretty decently.
 

Zanx8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
419
I played a Falco once on wi-fi so I don't want to bother putting too much input since it's probably not any good. =P I see though, I kinda use ZSS more in this MU now. XD
Edit: Falco is lighter and sucks at killing so it's the only reason why I would play this MU as Samus.
 

Sarix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
796
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Thankfully Falco is also vulnerable to that discovery I made yesterday :D (hopefully it becomes a legit AT).
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,345
As for stages, I would pick ones which limit his options for recovery. Battlefield is a good example of a stage to avoid since the top platform and occasionally low platforms give him more locations to land and minimize his ending lag.
Example: Say you hit Hit falco, at a moderate percent and he DIs up to the top platform level. Falco has the option of either phantasm to the top platform. Drift or fast fall to the shorter platform height, or he can pull away and go for the ledge. Depending upon what you do as Samus, he should pick that option. Samus does not have the mobility to cover all those landing sites.
Final Destination, Smashville, or YI limit his landing locations more and make it easier to make a call on his recovery.
 

Sarix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
796
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
FD is good for dealing with his recovery but I feel it makes his onstage game more frustrating to deal with.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,345
I do not see it changing much. Whether you are on smashville or battlefield or final destination, you'll have to deal with his annoying ground game nonetheless.

In a neutral situation, what will platforms provide for Samus? Why would she want to retreat to platforms while Falco is on the ground? Platforms are really only advantageous to her when coming back down to the stage as another mix-up to her recovery or trying to hit a falco stuck on one. The only thing I can see Samus doing on a platform is firing homing missiles at Falco, but with enough distance they will not hit him while falco can continue to firing double lasers at you low over the platform from a short hop.

Hmm... I suppose her being on a platform could attempt to bait an impatient Falco into approaching, and you can play around with him from there. But if that doesn't work, you only have a camping game you'll play.

Well, my main point was to avoid picking battlefield as a neutral to play on. Might even be worth it to place it as a ban too.
 

Sarix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
796
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Um, I wasn't rooting for Battlefield in my post.

Platforms typically for Samus are her tool to get under the opponent to string Uair combos or gain platform control via Utilt and Screw Attack, opponents being above Samus are in one of her two favorite zones. Samus really doesn't get on the platforms herself so much as take advantage of opponents who do.

The reason I felt FD wasn't a strong option was because it gives Falco much more room to camp and can emphasize the weaknesses in Samus's ground approaches. Larger stages vs Falco are more likely to make the situation worse for Samus because Falco takes away her projectile and air game already with lasers.

When it comes to Battlefield I feel if Samus manages to get the lead she can plank on the ledge and take advantage of its smaller size to force approaches. It isn't the worst neutral but it isn't the best given that Falco also has great platform control.

Overall though I feel stages like Yoshi's Island would be more detrimental to us since that stage takes away several of our ledge options.
 

Zanx8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
419
I still love YI:B and I would use it since the random shy guys can block lazers at times and still be able to Z-air (not saying this is anything too important or whatever it's just something nice to know), he can't just run away and shoot all day and all that business. We live even LONGER on that stage, the platform helps us like it usually would with combos or up tilt can hit on the lower angled part of the platform. Not sure about other stages though, but FD can either help us with gimps and recovery or hurt us in the approaching at least. I mean yeah Falco on stage no matter what is going to be tough since well....it's Samus. Hmm, well I'll make sure to keep BF on my maybe bans vs him then. Would you think Halberd is any good vs Falco since that isn't too big and has a platform for the 2nd phase of the stage.
 

evmaxy54

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Jun 20, 2012
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His USmash is gonna kill Samus more early because of the lower top blast zone on Halberd, but the ledges on the hovering around Halberd part, I would think, s**** him over because he uses Phantasm to recover. I think Lylat might be a good stage to CP him, but I'm not sure if Samus is any good there :/
 
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