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MU discussion: MARTH

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx


How do we win?
What do we watch out for?
Stages to BAN/CP?
Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
Videos?
MU classification?




Remember, we are not using the "mu ratio" scheme anymore. Describe the MU using the following MU classifications:


Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage
 

pwned-by-the-poob

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
96
This matchup is tough for Samus. You have to do a lot of constant reading, and memorize what Marth is going to do after he dodges/shields a zair or missiles.(Never do missiles too close because his ranged sword makes him basically immune to missiles while approaching with an aerial) Marth will probably try to sprint at you often to try to punish Samus' constant landing from SH zairs and missiles. That's why you have to do extra reading vs Marth, and read what he will do after he shields or dodges a zair or missile. Once you have that figured out this matchup is a lot easier. (For instance if you think he'll run in and grab, spot dodge or if you have time, a retreating shrot hop dair or something. In combat, we get *****. so rely on the unreliable spam in this matchup. lol. It's not as good vs Marth because of his speed and disjointed hitbox, but if you play smart it can be very difficult for Marth to get in.

I said this stuff off the top of my head, and I'm basically just trying to get people talking about this matchup. Since I f***ing hate it and need to learn how to win. XD
 

quiKsilverItaly

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
268
Using the range is especially the key to win vs. Marth, but @ the guy above me, it's right, but sometiems to get in offense it could give you some damage. a normalwards f-tilt can outrange some of marth moves, and try to punish Marth, when he already used his double jump in the air for example with a dash grab.
i like the marth matchup, she has no projectiles anyway. we have! one of my favourite against the high and tops.
but pwned by the poob is still right so there is a slight disadvantage for samus for sure
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

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May 20, 2010
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Just call me Omega
Marth is a lot about pressure imo. He has a lot of tools at his disposal that shut us down. His sword easily takes care of missles and he has a counter that can eat a charge shot. Samus is tall, so it isn't that hard to hit her with Marth's quick aerials.
Zair is a GODSEND in this MU, but you have to know how to use it. When Marth dashes it puts him lower to the ground and makes it harder to zair or missle him, so, as poob said, will require some reading and predicting on your part.
I play a number of Marth's fairly often, a few are pretty decent, and they will almost always be on the offensive, so Samus has to go mega defensive.
An important factor to remember is that in order to use most of typical Marth playstyles involves short hopping aerials, especially fair.
OoS options are also very important in this MU. You should definitely throw out some Screw Attack before your opponent can start predicting it. If your oppnent is the kind that often uses 2 aerials in a SH an doesn't fastfall, SHZair is also an option.

Given Marth's recovery, most of the recover low to try to sweetspot the ledge. This is VERY bad for them because Samus can spike the straight out of the their UP-B. This can be risky however, because if you screw up the timing, and depending on the stage, you could get stage spiked.

Interesting note about facing Marth on BF, Marth has amazing platform pressure so be wary of that. Also, a number of Marth's like to plank the ledge by ledge dropping and fairing (Marth's fair goes through the stage and will hit you if you are near it), this is where i find the low CS very useful and can really catch them by surprise.

Overall, play defensive, observe your opponent, punish mistakes.
My bout is Disadvantage and i might goes as far as Heavy Disadvantage
 

Throwback

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
1,249
Location
Green Tooth Gorge
I find this MU very close to even, and I think it has something to do with Marth's physics. He is tall (when he's not dashing), he falls quite slowly, and his SH is not overly high. It makes him really easy to hit with zair and missiles. Add his light-ish weight, weak throws and very gimpable recovery, and Marth is very beatable.

The worst situation is when he hits you with sideB, he can really hurt you with the full combo, or repeat the initial hit, change-up to a grab etc etc. His low-% fthrow to fair is annoying but I think it only hits you once or twice.

Another weakness of marth's is the majority of his moves have decent base knockback, so it is easy to get space for missiles/zair. MC approaches are simply amazing and really turn the tables on marth.

Overall I think it's even or maybe slight disadvantage for samus. I remember an excellent match between...Sago? Rhyme? and a top 3 Marth that backs this up (but again I cbf finding it).
 

pwned-by-the-poob

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
96
@ Throwback

Either you are the best Samus in the world, or you've never faced a good Marth. XD
Jk, but I kinda disagree. This matchup is extremely hard for Samus in my opinion. Missile cancelling is useless against a good Marth because all of Marth's aerials go through missiles no problem. Also, it's not easy to get space for camping because of Marth's speed and range. It takes a lot of focus and predicting to get around Marth's pressure.
Zair, patience, and reading is the key to this matchup. Trying to beat a good Marth could possibly take the whole 8 minute time limit. lol. An effective way of combining zair and reading would be to pay attention to how the Marth reacts after shielding/dodging/getting hit by a zair. And punish once you catch on. Example: if he shields a lot, grab after the zair. If he spot dodges, wait and punish the spot dodge. If he jumps, jump up with another zair or something. Also don't make your landing predictable. It's easy for Marth to punish by running up and powershielding then grab. So if you expect Marth to do that, just use your double jump to avoid landing. You could also do a fast fall zair(short hop fast fall zair). It works better than you'd expect in that situation...
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
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Houston,Tx
ANY samus that thinks marth goes even seriously has no idea about the MU cause they play trash marths. i promise you my marth can beat any samus here and i dont use marth. just space well and never give samus room to move and its over.


its that bad of a MU
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
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Jul 20, 2008
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planking while watching anime with Fino

Disadvantage

I'd learn towards Heavy, but Samus can plank to a degree + has zair and isnt totally useless... oh, and I don't play either at HIGH levels of play..... but I feel I know every character enough to a degree to have some input. [Except Yoshi. **** Yoshi]

Beyond that

Marth's fair > missiles. It eats them for breakfast.
Marth spacing > samus's KO game (and a large part of her damage racking). You gotta read well or bait something if you want ANYTHING.

I also approve of how you do your matchups. Screw numbers, words are better.

:nifty::leek:
 

IsmaR

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"Screw everything" is our motto, obviously. :166:

But really, you hit the nailscrew on the head. Don't think it's that close to even, nor that bad(least to obscene levels).
 

Throwback

Smash Lord
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Dunno, I've played Shaya a few times, he's the best Aus Marth & has placed decently in the US. Of course he beat me but he's far better than I am. Having said that, I have played a lot of other marths, some good some bad and I stand by my opinion.

edit: And this vid, imo shows the MU is not bad at all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6-8Fm_xiOg

Note that all of marth's hits give samus time to zair or MC
 
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Throwback you know that video was nominated as a best video of Samus right? It's clear Noid outplayed him. It's as simple as that.
 

Hive

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
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Location
Mountain View, ca
Marth is a heavy disadvantage. period.
He approaches well, has way better kill percents and close range then us, has high dmg combos out of his grab, can basically break any of our combos with his up b or down b, can outprioritize and outspace most of our moves, and has one of the best anti ledge games in the game. **** **** **** ****.
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
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I dislike it when people show videos of me without my consent. Stupid youtube.

Many mistakes were made on both parts. And Marth's anti-ledge game is not overrated.
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

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May 20, 2010
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I dislike it when people show videos of me without my consent. Stupid youtube.

Many mistakes were made on both parts. And Marth's anti-ledge game is not overrated.
Agreed. Marth has many options to punish all of our ledge options. And if we hang on too long, he can use usmash and stage spike us due to its "suction" hitboxes on the sides of him
 

Sago

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come on NOID i wana see vids of you :3

I think this mu is like 70/30 marths favor. Good marths will wreck your ****.

Im not saying there arent things you can do. Be less ledge game oriented. I find staying fairly agressive actually helps in this MU. Marth is pretty easy to get under.
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

Smash Journeyman
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May 20, 2010
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Just call me Omega
Are you referring to the match v Neo, Noid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6-8Fm_xiOg
This was a good match to watch. I really liked some of NOID's follow-ups to MC'd super missles.

The MU is interesting if anything, a character like samus with one of the best ledge-camping capabilities vs a character like Marth with one of the best ledge-guarding capabilities
 

Pr0fessor Flash

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The Match up is Pretty hard because Marth can easily go through samus's missles by fairing and the only tool samus has to keep marth away is zair
 
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