Well, here's the initial chart I made for the characters nair and spring locks.
Remember, this chart displays the maximum percentage the character can be at while taking a fresh spring drop or sour spot nair in order to become locked on the ground. The colors are as follows:
1. Light Purple = MAY be nair locked from a sideB
This means that it is possible to nair lock these characters from a sideB footstool, but it's incredibly situational, mostly relying on the terrain of the map, and whether or not the opponent immediately reacts from the footstool. If they move the instant they hit the ground, the nair setup WILL NOT work.
2. Red = Setups into jab lock will almost never work
This means that the spring AND nair lock setups will fail. It only applies to Luigi, and only because he slides WAY too far to start off a jab lock before he goes out of range. If he stays on the level, however, you CAN run up and grab him or hit him during the forced-get up from the spring or nair lock. Luigi can be considered a Light Purple category when it comes to the nair lock.
3. Green = SideB > footstool > nair jab lock setup works
On these characters, sideB directly into a footstool, followed by a fast fall nair, will work at least 80% of the time, the only exception being Bowser, who's probably the most difficult character to set this up in, despite his size. Samus and Lucario both surprisingly share a weaker, but similar effect to why it's so god**** easy to lock ROB. They tilt back when footstooled, especially Samus, so you're actually closer to the ground when you footstool them, allowing you to nair into the jab lock. Lucario is probably the second most difficult only because he isn't fat, so the nair is hard to land. Olimar, of course, would be third since you HAVE to aim for the helmet. Mr. Game and Watch and Jigglypuff are in the same boat as Olimar in that they're so small that they fall longer to hit the ground, but not long enough to break out of the tumbling animation. Game and Watch's animation when hitting the ground is so long and creates such a good sized hitbox that landing a nair is no problem, while Jigglypuff is so wide that even with her DIing in any direction after the footstool, the nair should hit.
So the order of difficulty in initiating sideb > footstool > nair > jab lock would be the following (from easiest to hardest):
-ROB
-Samus
-Jigglypuff
-Mr. Game and Watch
-Olimar/Lucario
-Bowser
4. Blue = sideB > footstool > nair lock won't work
Simple as it's said. Squirtle and Ice Climbers suffer from the Luigi Effect, where they just slide wa~y too far for the nair lock to be reasonably possible. It may be doable vs. Squirtle, but if so, I suppose the difficulty must be insane. However, because they don't slide TOO far, spring into jab locks still work, but are slightly difficult to pull off.
***One thing I forgot to mention. All characters CAN be nair locked of course, but the ones not colored can ONLY be nair locked if they are hit with the sour spot after they hit the floor from a tumbling animation. One of the best ways I can think of to get those uncolored characters into those animations would be to hit them off a platform while they shield, then follow with the nair.
Then again, jab works much more reliably. Whatever floats your boats.***
Yup, that's that. I'm actually the most satisfied at who I found can be sideB into nair jab locked, but everything here was pretty cool to discover.
C'mon Sonic mains, let's start locking people for free damage.
=====
The following below is prior to the chart being posted:
Thought I'd make a thread about it or whatnot.
If anything, this is a placeholder for a chart I'm creating concerning characters and the percentages at which they become locked in the nair/spring jab lock setups. Not all characters fall into the nair setup, but I'll be providing the information for every cast member anyways.
Prior to the last weekend, I was fooling around a lot with Sonic's spins, lock setups, and Olimar and small characters for various reasons, and I found a lot of interesting things. Some things are/should be general knowledge for Sonic mains, but some things that I found were quite interesting:
-Spring and nair lock setups aren't constant among the cast (I felt dumb when I realized this). Each and every cast member becomes locked in the setups at various percentages. This only makes things more complicated when the Spring and Nairs stale-ness comes into play. For example, Snake pops out of the spring lock around 30% Fresh. However, if completely stale, Snake gets stuck in the spring lock beyond 50%.
Although it's a bit extreme (and nigh impossible) to think that anyone would EVER hit a Snake with a 100% stale upB (only ways are to footstool directly into an UpB, or have them miss a tech and upB, and these are only AFTER you've HIT them with 7 UpBs consecutively!), not to mention that sideB alone will knock one counter off the UpB's staleness. This is more or less just some nice advice to know, should the occasion ever, ever, EVER somehow magically show itself.
I will be making a chart within the rest of the week, hopefully, marking each individual character and at what percents they become locked with the nair (fresh), and the upB (fresh), and for the same two attacks as 100% stale. Although neither occassion will likely rise, it's mostly for data-purposes anyways.
=====
-Another something that is probably common knowledge, is the Sonic's Spin Dash (SideB) can actually footstool characters well beyond 100%, even with proper DI. During the practice runs, I was able to successfully sideB to footstool heavier characters to 200+%, and characters like Olimar and Meta Knight well into 180% fresh.
It's quite simple, and I find myself somewhat stupid for not realizing why before. The only difference between a regular sideB into footstool is that this brand relies on you hitting the other character at the apex of the initial hop from the spin dash. Meaning you have to land the sideB at the highest point. From there, you instantly buffer a jump, and it becomes a footstool just pixels from the ground.
Unfortunately, Sonic lacks a good KO or damage building setup from this aside from spring locks and nair locks on certain characters. Although it's not much to cheer about, it DOES allow for Sonic to dair instantly out of the FSJ, totaling the sideB -> dair damage at 10-13% fresh (depending on whether you sweet spot the dair). It will not kill heavies until they are beyond the setup, so never mind them, and DI will probably make this worthless.
However, if you want to try and blow some minds, or get inside some heads, it WILL kill Olimar and Meta Knight (These two were dummies for the exercises) at the 180% range. They shouldn't live that long, but in the case they do, at least there's another option open :D
I'll be looking into this buffered FSJ more in pertaining to ROB as well. At best, it may very well lead into jab locks at killing percents, which would be a blessing.
=====
-Olimar
What the heck is wrong with this character? Two- which I feel are, at least- new things I found while messing with Oli during these exercises:
1. Olimar CAN be set up into a nair jab lock.
Don't ask me how, or why, because I honestly don't know either one. It just does. I'm guessing that since he's a tiny character, that he takes longer to hit the ground than large characters from the same height, since he takes up less space. This time is then used to fast fall a nair that sets him up into the jab lock.
The nair however, only hits if you slam it into Olimar's helmet. Yup.
Never mind that this is suicidal in the Olimar match up to use (You DON'T, for the love of god, Spin into Olimar), even just pulling it off requires quite a deal of accuracy.
However, if done, the reward can be crucial. Jab locking them across a stage and then launching them away with a powerful smash attack can easily lead to a KO. That's not to say that Olimar is incredibly easy to gimp, but it makes getting him off the level and pressuring him just a bit easier to do.
That is, if you can land that sideB on him. God have mercy on your soul.
PS: It's probably easier to do the regular sideB to spring lock on him anyways...unless the nair lock works at higher percents. Also, the sideB nair lock works with the regular nair, not the buffered FSJ.
2. Olimar can be pivot-jab locked during a jab lock.
What the hell does that mean? It's simple:
1. Jab lock Olimar (lolsimple)
2. Jab lock Olimar some more
3. Pivot after a jab
4. Jab in the opposite direction
5. Proceed to jab Olimar in opposite direction
I will say this now though. This will NOT work if you're playing a competent player. It just won't. If they DI that one jab before the pivot, it's not gonna work. However, here's some things:
-This "works" on Olimar by jabbing at his feet, then pivot jabbing his head. It only works in this direction because it's easy for Sonic to move across Olimar's flimsy body. It doesn't work at his head because the helmet slows down Sonic's progress enough to force a miss. The pivot jab after jabbing Olimar's feet will hit Olimar's torso, shifting him the opposite direction of the initial jab lock (if they don't DI).
-This only works if you're right next to Olimar during the jab lock. This means that they have to either not DI at all, or DI towards you. Fun.
-If you ever do this in tournament, I will let you make love to my most attractive female relative.
-It will NEVER work, but knowing this, I tried it on other characters. This ONLY works on OLIMAR.
The last fun little fact about this pivot jab lock on Olimar is that even if you were to mess up the pivot by pivoting too early, and jab, you're still likely to hit him, but he'll continue moving the same direction as the initial jab (without DI). This also works on most characters that take up lots of space.
So if you want to be fancy or flashy, you can pivot jab lock ROB over and over and over again, he'll just keep moving in the same direction. lol.
=====
Anyways, yeah. Nothing really interesting or useful. Just little tidbits while screwing around in Brawl.
Remember, this chart displays the maximum percentage the character can be at while taking a fresh spring drop or sour spot nair in order to become locked on the ground. The colors are as follows:
1. Light Purple = MAY be nair locked from a sideB
This means that it is possible to nair lock these characters from a sideB footstool, but it's incredibly situational, mostly relying on the terrain of the map, and whether or not the opponent immediately reacts from the footstool. If they move the instant they hit the ground, the nair setup WILL NOT work.
2. Red = Setups into jab lock will almost never work
This means that the spring AND nair lock setups will fail. It only applies to Luigi, and only because he slides WAY too far to start off a jab lock before he goes out of range. If he stays on the level, however, you CAN run up and grab him or hit him during the forced-get up from the spring or nair lock. Luigi can be considered a Light Purple category when it comes to the nair lock.
3. Green = SideB > footstool > nair jab lock setup works
On these characters, sideB directly into a footstool, followed by a fast fall nair, will work at least 80% of the time, the only exception being Bowser, who's probably the most difficult character to set this up in, despite his size. Samus and Lucario both surprisingly share a weaker, but similar effect to why it's so god**** easy to lock ROB. They tilt back when footstooled, especially Samus, so you're actually closer to the ground when you footstool them, allowing you to nair into the jab lock. Lucario is probably the second most difficult only because he isn't fat, so the nair is hard to land. Olimar, of course, would be third since you HAVE to aim for the helmet. Mr. Game and Watch and Jigglypuff are in the same boat as Olimar in that they're so small that they fall longer to hit the ground, but not long enough to break out of the tumbling animation. Game and Watch's animation when hitting the ground is so long and creates such a good sized hitbox that landing a nair is no problem, while Jigglypuff is so wide that even with her DIing in any direction after the footstool, the nair should hit.
So the order of difficulty in initiating sideb > footstool > nair > jab lock would be the following (from easiest to hardest):
-ROB
-Samus
-Jigglypuff
-Mr. Game and Watch
-Olimar/Lucario
-Bowser
4. Blue = sideB > footstool > nair lock won't work
Simple as it's said. Squirtle and Ice Climbers suffer from the Luigi Effect, where they just slide wa~y too far for the nair lock to be reasonably possible. It may be doable vs. Squirtle, but if so, I suppose the difficulty must be insane. However, because they don't slide TOO far, spring into jab locks still work, but are slightly difficult to pull off.
***One thing I forgot to mention. All characters CAN be nair locked of course, but the ones not colored can ONLY be nair locked if they are hit with the sour spot after they hit the floor from a tumbling animation. One of the best ways I can think of to get those uncolored characters into those animations would be to hit them off a platform while they shield, then follow with the nair.
Then again, jab works much more reliably. Whatever floats your boats.***
Yup, that's that. I'm actually the most satisfied at who I found can be sideB into nair jab locked, but everything here was pretty cool to discover.
C'mon Sonic mains, let's start locking people for free damage.
=====
The following below is prior to the chart being posted:
Thought I'd make a thread about it or whatnot.
If anything, this is a placeholder for a chart I'm creating concerning characters and the percentages at which they become locked in the nair/spring jab lock setups. Not all characters fall into the nair setup, but I'll be providing the information for every cast member anyways.
Prior to the last weekend, I was fooling around a lot with Sonic's spins, lock setups, and Olimar and small characters for various reasons, and I found a lot of interesting things. Some things are/should be general knowledge for Sonic mains, but some things that I found were quite interesting:
-Spring and nair lock setups aren't constant among the cast (I felt dumb when I realized this). Each and every cast member becomes locked in the setups at various percentages. This only makes things more complicated when the Spring and Nairs stale-ness comes into play. For example, Snake pops out of the spring lock around 30% Fresh. However, if completely stale, Snake gets stuck in the spring lock beyond 50%.
Although it's a bit extreme (and nigh impossible) to think that anyone would EVER hit a Snake with a 100% stale upB (only ways are to footstool directly into an UpB, or have them miss a tech and upB, and these are only AFTER you've HIT them with 7 UpBs consecutively!), not to mention that sideB alone will knock one counter off the UpB's staleness. This is more or less just some nice advice to know, should the occasion ever, ever, EVER somehow magically show itself.
I will be making a chart within the rest of the week, hopefully, marking each individual character and at what percents they become locked with the nair (fresh), and the upB (fresh), and for the same two attacks as 100% stale. Although neither occassion will likely rise, it's mostly for data-purposes anyways.
=====
-Another something that is probably common knowledge, is the Sonic's Spin Dash (SideB) can actually footstool characters well beyond 100%, even with proper DI. During the practice runs, I was able to successfully sideB to footstool heavier characters to 200+%, and characters like Olimar and Meta Knight well into 180% fresh.
It's quite simple, and I find myself somewhat stupid for not realizing why before. The only difference between a regular sideB into footstool is that this brand relies on you hitting the other character at the apex of the initial hop from the spin dash. Meaning you have to land the sideB at the highest point. From there, you instantly buffer a jump, and it becomes a footstool just pixels from the ground.
Unfortunately, Sonic lacks a good KO or damage building setup from this aside from spring locks and nair locks on certain characters. Although it's not much to cheer about, it DOES allow for Sonic to dair instantly out of the FSJ, totaling the sideB -> dair damage at 10-13% fresh (depending on whether you sweet spot the dair). It will not kill heavies until they are beyond the setup, so never mind them, and DI will probably make this worthless.
However, if you want to try and blow some minds, or get inside some heads, it WILL kill Olimar and Meta Knight (These two were dummies for the exercises) at the 180% range. They shouldn't live that long, but in the case they do, at least there's another option open :D
I'll be looking into this buffered FSJ more in pertaining to ROB as well. At best, it may very well lead into jab locks at killing percents, which would be a blessing.
=====
-Olimar
What the heck is wrong with this character? Two- which I feel are, at least- new things I found while messing with Oli during these exercises:
1. Olimar CAN be set up into a nair jab lock.
Don't ask me how, or why, because I honestly don't know either one. It just does. I'm guessing that since he's a tiny character, that he takes longer to hit the ground than large characters from the same height, since he takes up less space. This time is then used to fast fall a nair that sets him up into the jab lock.
The nair however, only hits if you slam it into Olimar's helmet. Yup.
Never mind that this is suicidal in the Olimar match up to use (You DON'T, for the love of god, Spin into Olimar), even just pulling it off requires quite a deal of accuracy.
However, if done, the reward can be crucial. Jab locking them across a stage and then launching them away with a powerful smash attack can easily lead to a KO. That's not to say that Olimar is incredibly easy to gimp, but it makes getting him off the level and pressuring him just a bit easier to do.
That is, if you can land that sideB on him. God have mercy on your soul.
PS: It's probably easier to do the regular sideB to spring lock on him anyways...unless the nair lock works at higher percents. Also, the sideB nair lock works with the regular nair, not the buffered FSJ.
2. Olimar can be pivot-jab locked during a jab lock.
What the hell does that mean? It's simple:
1. Jab lock Olimar (lolsimple)
2. Jab lock Olimar some more
3. Pivot after a jab
4. Jab in the opposite direction
5. Proceed to jab Olimar in opposite direction
I will say this now though. This will NOT work if you're playing a competent player. It just won't. If they DI that one jab before the pivot, it's not gonna work. However, here's some things:
-This "works" on Olimar by jabbing at his feet, then pivot jabbing his head. It only works in this direction because it's easy for Sonic to move across Olimar's flimsy body. It doesn't work at his head because the helmet slows down Sonic's progress enough to force a miss. The pivot jab after jabbing Olimar's feet will hit Olimar's torso, shifting him the opposite direction of the initial jab lock (if they don't DI).
-This only works if you're right next to Olimar during the jab lock. This means that they have to either not DI at all, or DI towards you. Fun.
-If you ever do this in tournament, I will let you make love to my most attractive female relative.
-It will NEVER work, but knowing this, I tried it on other characters. This ONLY works on OLIMAR.
The last fun little fact about this pivot jab lock on Olimar is that even if you were to mess up the pivot by pivoting too early, and jab, you're still likely to hit him, but he'll continue moving the same direction as the initial jab (without DI). This also works on most characters that take up lots of space.
So if you want to be fancy or flashy, you can pivot jab lock ROB over and over and over again, he'll just keep moving in the same direction. lol.
=====
Anyways, yeah. Nothing really interesting or useful. Just little tidbits while screwing around in Brawl.
