needle charge edge hog

[pockyD]

i'm thinking of

running off the edge

turning around with a needle charge

grabbing the edge

all without jumping

is this doable? if so, is it useful?

 

[BigRick]

edge cancelled needle charge? I doubt that this is possible...

You could simply do the edge cancelled up+b to the edge trick instead. The small hitbox and the few invincibility frames is a plus.

 

[pockyD]

i actually think the hitbox is a huge negative (if you're trying to sneak in a quick edgehog, you definitely DON'T want to hit them and give them their up-b back, not to mention popping them up)

and plus you would get invincibility from the edge grab anyway; why do you need extras from the up-b? obviously if this were used you would time it so you are on the edge by the time they can hit you

 

[FlipX]

When you use shieks up B to grab the ledge you usually arent going to hit your opponent. Its really quick so its unlikely to give them their up b back. I would say its shieks best way to grab the edge especially if your in a hurry, as compared to jumping and turning around with the needle charge.

 

[Ophelius]

I don't think it's doable, but it's worth a try. Go to training mode.

 

[0m3n5150]

and give us results!

 

[Shack]

It IS possible, watch the needles part of my vid in my sig. It is hard tho, and not worth it unless u learn to do it like atleast 75% of the time. I slowed that part of the vid down so u can see what happening. It is prolly the fastest way to grab the ledge, but also the easiest to kill urself (chain). Look at it this way, which is faster? running and jumping into a reverse needle to grab the edge, or just running and grabbing the edge almost right away?

Just make sure u ONLY tap the other way and press L/R right after u turn or else ull miss the ledge.

EDIT: fastfoward to 6:20 to see the reverse needle cancel grab thing

Also this works with Mewtwo and DK

 

[Luma]

i know its possible with dk, well we should ask someone with ar to test it ^^

 

[0m3n5150]

why do you need ar to test it?

 

[Luma]

frame by frame = perfect test

didnt know that this is so easy ^^

 

[pockyD]

It IS possible, watch the needles part of my vid in my sig. It is hard tho, and not worth it unless u learn to do it like atleast 75% of the time. I slowed that part of the vid down so u can see what happening. It is prolly the fastest way to grab the ledge, but also the easiest to kill urself (chain). Look at it this way, which is faster? running and jumping into a reverse needle to grab the edge, or just running and grabbing the edge almost right away?

Just make sure u ONLY tap the other way and press L/R right after u turn or else ull miss the ledge.

EDIT: fastfoward to 6:20 to see the reverse needle cancel grab thing

Also this works with Mewtwo and DK

pretty cool

did the fact that you were running up a slope make it easier (or just possible period) though?

as for the uses, i'm not thinking about straight up getting to the edge; i'm more thinking of sneaking in there after tricking your opponent into going for the edge (i.e. if they think you are going to dsmash them, they will try harder to sweetspot perfectly, at which point if you sneak in real fast they lose)

 

[Shack]

pretty cool

did the fact that you were running up a slope make it easier (or just possible period) though?

as for the uses, i'm not thinking about straight up getting to the edge; i'm more thinking of sneaking in there after tricking your opponent into going for the edge (i.e. if they think you are going to dsmash them, they will try harder to sweetspot perfectly, at which point if you sneak in real fast they lose)

haha, actually i did it on corneria cuz that way if i missed, i wouldnt die and have to wait to come back to try again. I have done it on other stages and yes it took a bunch of tries. But now when i think about it, its actually a very good move to use if the person is ledgestalling b/c u should be bale to grab it quick enough to mess them up. Or if they think ur gonna downsmash like u said.

Now i have to go practice it more lol

and y do u need ar? the vid is slow enough to count the frames (i think) Or just make it a gif and count it

 

[0m3n5150]

i could do that
=P
youd have to tell me where to start counting and where to stop.
or, ill just make the whole run slow, then post it here.

edit:
here ya go, i had troubles so it took a bit longer.
every frame after running is slowed at .5sec
it will probably need to play through once before you get an accurate count, because of the lag.

 

[Nihonjin]

Its possible to do, but why go through all that trouble when there are easier and more effective ways than that?

 

[takieddine]

because it looks cool obviously... and its pretty quick..

 

[pockyD]

Its possible to do, but why go through all that trouble when there are easier and more effective ways than that?

what's more effective?

 

[Plairnkk]

in an idealistic world pocky, that would be the most effective and quick way to get on the edge.

i cant even do it on 1/4 speed in training mode. i know it's possible though.

 

[5150]

in an idealistic world pocky, that would be the most effective and quick way to get on the edge.

i cant even do it on 1/4 speed in training mode. i know it's possible though.

OHHHHHHH not so east coast now big boy!!!!!!!

 

[Nihonjin]

what's more effective?

Simply walking of the edge and grabbing it? (by turning around right before you fall off)
Its about equal in speed but 1000x easier.

 

[Velox]

There is this thing FASTLIKETREE has been talking about that involves crouching out of your running animation, pivot so that your back is facing the edge, wavedash off the stage (backwards), fast fall, grab the edge which although sound harder, I'm pretty sure is much easier than this and close to the same speed I'm sure.

Due to my lack of a game, I couldn't try either of these.

It's another of the "super fast options" none the less.

 

[Ophelius]

I tried for about an hour on training mode, with no results. So I just ran to the edge, and spazzed out, sort of. but I did it. I guess you just have to be really good and fast at spazzin out, I guess.

 

[Shack]

i dont think the walk and turn arodn is as fast b/c u have to stop running since sheik deosnt slide like marth or yoshi. the reverse needle lets u keep running.

practice by just running off and doign a needle charge cancel
then by just running off with reverse needles
by the tiem u can do both of those u should be able to mix em together.

 

[Nihonjin]

i dont think the walk and turn arodn is as fast b/c u have to stop running since sheik deosnt slide like marth or yoshi. the reverse needle lets u keep running.

practice by just running off and doign a needle charge cancel
then by just running off with reverse needles
by the tiem u can do both of those u should be able to mix em together.

Run, wavedash forward as you approach the edge & walk forward, turn around. voilla insta-edgehog.
Its about as fast as the needle turn around if you time the wavedash right.
And its ALOT easier.

*edit*
I just thought about it, it might even be as fast as the needle edge hog if you perform it right because you can compensate the walking part by fast falling (wich is humanly impossible to do with the needle thing)...

 

[Ophelius]

Yup. You'd fall right off.

 

[Taalcon]

and then doing that would be as effective as using the chain XD.

 

[Plairnkk]

i dislike just trying to turn off and fall around with sheik cuz she has a lot of traction so its not as easy as some other characters (marth, fox, luigi, etc.) =(

 

[Shack]

well u just have to get used to falling off the ledge, it also works cuz some ppl like to fair right as they fall off the edge, so it could have ur oppnent guessing.

I get what ur saying Nihonjin, but doesnt the walk animaiton slow it down a bit?

 

[0m3n5150]

Run, wavedash forward as you approach the edge & walk forward, turn around. voilla insta-edgehog.

i tried this and i cant get it to work. i dont see how you can grab the edge, but be facing the other direction...

 

[Zankoku]

I did this by accident. It seems rather difficult... you have to turn around while the momentum of the wavedash carries you off the edge.

 

[Ophelius]

or you could wavedash backwards onto the ledge.It's easy, and you usually have enough time to do it.

 

[Zankoku]

This is assuming you're coming from a distance that you have to run to reach the ledge quickly enough, and at which point you won't be facing the correct direction.

 

[Nihonjin]

I did this by accident. It seems rather difficult... you have to turn around while the momentum of the wavedash carries you off the edge.

Then you're wavedashing too late.
The only reason you wavedash forward is to cancel your run into walking without completely stopping, then you walk forward for a split second and turn around.

i tried this and i cant get it to work. i dont see how you can grab the edge, but be facing the other direction...

I'll see if I can make a vid somewhere this week.

 

[Shack]

Also if ur having trouble, try it with marth luigi or yoshi b/c its easier with them. This is jsut so u can see what it is u should be doing with sheik, then try it with her (she deosnt slide as much and has a shorter wd, so its going to be harder)

 

[Banks]

sounds possible with extreme speed

 

[Nihonjin]

The needle turn around thing or walking off the edge?
Either way, it doesn't sound possible, it IS possible.

*edit*

Like I promised.

*click me*---->Edge Hog<---- *click me*

Not really a tutorial vid but its good enough to show you guys what it SHOULD look like. (when to wavedash etc, just replay it 1000 times )

Anyway, I'll upload some of my matches this week (played yesterday) so you can see the use of it in an actual fight.

 

[Shack]

ight yeah, thats def pretty much just as fast as the needle one, and easier. I'm still kinda confused how u do it so smooth. When i try it, i dont alwasy have enough momentum to take me off the ledge. Is it jsut about timing on when u turn?


EDIT: also the reverse needle is a lot easier on sloped edges. For those who r still tyring it

 

[Nihonjin]

Its pretty much about timing.
Just keep trying until you get the hang of it ^^

 

[Gracen]

Nice video my guy i never thought of edge gaurding with the up+b like that nor did i think it would work
and the reverce needle charge!
you have changed the way i edge gaurd!

 

[APImagine]

I learn somethin' new everyday, it seems!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

wow i just practiced the run-off-reverse-need-edge-hog. it really isnt that hard at all. probably at the difficulty level of learning to WD. maybe slightly higher. you really have a lot more time that it looks like. i really suck at learning tech stuff (took me like 3 months to learn WD initially) so if i can learn this in 20 minutes anyone can.

the only 2 hard things in this are
1) press opposite direction and let it go b4 pressing b (not any harder than reverse lasering with falco)
2) timing the l/r to cancel the needles (not any harder than learning the timing for a WD)